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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: BumblingBear on February 05, 2011, 03:34:23 PM

Title: Telepathy - 3rd law violation or not?
Post by: BumblingBear on February 05, 2011, 03:34:23 PM
I was thinking about having my character use telepathy to get around not having a cell phone, but I want to make sure it's not a third law violation.

Based on my understanding of the RAW, it is not because you're not actually "in" someone's head.  You are not reading their mind, simply picking up what they're projecting (after you make contact).

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Telepathy - 3rd law violation or not?
Post by: Shecky on February 05, 2011, 03:44:13 PM
Mm, two-way telepathy is the issue; you'd have to have some way to plant your voice in the other person's head, and that's thin-ice territory unless you're using enchanted items as the equivalent to cell phones, much like the speaking stones in Changes.
Title: Re: Telepathy - 3rd law violation or not?
Post by: BumblingBear on February 05, 2011, 03:53:20 PM
Quote from: Shecky on February 05, 2011, 03:44:13 PM
Mm, two-way telepathy is the issue; you'd have to have some way to plant your voice in the other person's head, and that's thin-ice territory unless you're using enchanted items as the equivalent to cell phones, much like the speaking stones in Changes.

I had forgotten about those.  Good to know.

That also limits the power a bit to only people that my character has actually given a stone to.  I like that.

Magic is cool, but I don't want anything to be too-too easy.
Title: Re: Telepathy - 3rd law violation or not?
Post by: My Dark Sunshine on February 05, 2011, 05:29:04 PM
Or if you have a certain someone in mind, you could try forging a bond similar to that between
(click to show/hide)
. Unless my memory is completely off (it happens), they could communicate telepathically.
Title: Re: Telepathy - 3rd law violation or not?
Post by: Drachasor on February 05, 2011, 05:29:56 PM
One-way is definitely ok, we see it done in one of the books.
Title: Re: Telepathy - 3rd law violation or not?
Post by: MijRai on February 05, 2011, 06:33:04 PM
We've had evidence that you can send out messages, if you are Senior Council Level or are close/have their Name along with magical talent. Now, I think they would have to send back to have a conversation, looking into theirt mind to see their response gets too close to the Law for my tastes.
Title: Re: Telepathy - 3rd law violation or not?
Post by: batmanjr on February 07, 2011, 10:45:53 PM
Enchant two notepads.  What is written on one, will appear on the other, and can be replied to in the same manner.

Similar to the stones concept, but I think has more of a "Harry" feel to it.
Title: Re: Telepathy - 3rd law violation or not?
Post by: devonapple on February 07, 2011, 10:49:09 PM
Quote from: batmanjr on February 07, 2011, 10:45:53 PM
Enchant two notepads.  What is written on one, will appear on the other, and can be replied to in the same manner.

Similar to the stones concept, but I think has more of a "Harry" feel to it.

With echoes of "Fringe." A clever idea! Actually, knowing Harry's Wal-Mart source, would we go with two cheap notepads, or two of those Magic Slate (http://www.amazon.com/Schylling-MGSL-Magic-Slates/dp/B000ICZ5IW) wax tablets? Edit: I can imagine one of them getting nabbed by Ghouls as they kidnap the tablet bearer - the person with the other tablet sees little wax divots from Ghoul teeth, some bad doodling, and then more teeth mark divots before the ritual association gets broken entirely.
Title: Re: Telepathy - 3rd law violation or not?
Post by: devonapple on February 07, 2011, 10:52:50 PM
I think you were around when I brought this up in a similar thread, but if not, here is a link:
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,23572.0.html
Title: Re: Telepathy - 3rd law violation or not?
Post by: Drachasor on February 07, 2011, 10:58:26 PM
Quote from: devonapple on February 07, 2011, 10:49:09 PM
With echoes of "Fringe." A clever idea! Actually, knowing Harry's Wal-Mart source, would we go with two cheap notepads, or two of those Magic Slate (http://www.amazon.com/Schylling-MGSL-Magic-Slates/dp/B000ICZ5IW) wax tablets?

I think it is more of a reference to The Sword of Truth, but that turned into Objectivist nonesense, so I suppose going with Fringe is better.
Title: Re: Telepathy - 3rd law violation or not?
Post by: Shecky on February 08, 2011, 02:27:27 AM
Or it could be taken from D&D.
Title: Re: Telepathy - 3rd law violation or not?
Post by: Drachasor on February 08, 2011, 03:35:53 AM
Quote from: Shecky on February 08, 2011, 02:27:27 AM
Or it could be taken from D&D.

I can't for the life of me think of anything that works like that in D&D...not with two notebooks and writing.
Title: Re: Telepathy - 3rd law violation or not?
Post by: MrWiggles on February 08, 2011, 04:02:25 AM
Isn't there an issue with consent with the third law as well?

The Merlin example, he could assume consent for directing how to handle the dangerous situation, being the Merlin.
Title: Re: Telepathy - 3rd law violation or not?
Post by: Drachasor on February 08, 2011, 04:16:19 AM
Quote from: MrWiggles on February 08, 2011, 04:02:25 AM
Isn't there an issue with consent with the third law as well?

The Merlin example, he could assume consent for directing how to handle the dangerous situation, being the Merlin.

You can't assume permission.  That has to be given.

However, the Third Law isn't "never send people telepathic messages" or "never use telepathy in any form" it is "Never INVADE the THOUGHTS of another."  Sending a message is not poking around in their head.  We see it twice in the books, once between two wizards sending messages back and forth, and once one-way (by the Merlin).  If you aren't looking at their thoughts in some way, then you aren't invading their mind, imho. 
(click to show/hide)

You do bring up an interesting point though.  If someone gives you permission to check out their head, that seems like an invitation to me, and hence that person wouldn't be invading (unless the violate the mind in some fashion while they are there...like a really bad houseguest).    The books don't really go over that, but they do go over how people get their minds messed with and are being treated for it.  Seems like there'd be some element of permitted poking around to assess the damage and find a good way to fix that up.
Title: Re: Telepathy - 3rd law violation or not?
Post by: Shecky on February 08, 2011, 11:37:03 AM
Quote from: Drachasor on February 08, 2011, 03:35:53 AM
I can't for the life of me think of anything that works like that in D&D...not with two notebooks and writing.

The concept of linking two things is an old one in D&D. Let's not get our vision too narrow here.
Title: Re: Telepathy - 3rd law violation or not?
Post by: Drachasor on February 08, 2011, 11:48:23 AM
Quote from: Shecky on February 08, 2011, 11:37:03 AM
The concept of linking two things is an old one in D&D. Let's not get our vision too narrow here.

Well granted, they have all sorts of stuff like that.  It's older than D&D even.  I only meant the Sword of Truth series had books where you wrote in one and it appeared in the other.  That's probably older than those books two, but I don't know another source of that off-hand.
Title: Re: Telepathy - 3rd law violation or not?
Post by: BumblingBear on February 08, 2011, 12:23:46 PM
Quote from: Drachasor on February 08, 2011, 11:48:23 AM
Well granted, they have all sorts of stuff like that.  It's older than D&D even.  I only meant the Sword of Truth series had books where you wrote in one and it appeared in the other.  That's probably older than those books two, but I don't know another source of that off-hand.

IIRC it was called a "journey book" or something like that between the head of the sorceresses and Sister Verna.