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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: ironpoet on February 04, 2011, 10:36:34 PM
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I've been playing in a Dresden game for a few sessions now, but I've been having trouble finding ways to Self-Compel aspects for Fate points. Invoking aspects has been easy, but, even though I have ideas about when my aspects would be compelled, they don't seem to come up in play at all. I was wondering if anyone had general or specific advice about how to compel aspects more often in play. (Or how to modify Aspects to make them easier to compel.)
In my specific case, my aspects are:
- New Warden In Town
- Somebody Has To Do It
- Knowledge Is Power
- Been Around A Long Time
- Stubborn Old Mule
- Needs Of The Many Outweigh The Few
- (plus one more I plan to replace anyway)
In theory, I expected to compel local magical practicioners to be scared and/or suspicious of me. I expected local faces to tell me to stay out of their business, which would compel me to dig in my heels and mess with their business. I expected to compel unexpected backstories and possibly owed favors to local Fae Courts. And I expected to compel myself to make difficult choices, sacrificing a few innocent souls for the Greater Good.
In practice, our sessions have been more "investigate-y". Something bad has happened, and we have to fix it. Most of the people we talk to are not in a position of power (so they can't tell me to back off), and by the time we actually meet anyone of power, it's usually time to start slinging spells rather than discuss our backstories.
In short, I seem to have built a character for a supernatural "Leverage" or "Burn Notice" ("defeat the villain with clever moves and countermoves"), but I seem to be playing a game of supernatural "CSI" ("follow the leads to discover the villain").
Any advice on how to modify my playstyle or aspects to earn Fate points easier? Has anyone else had similar problems, where their choice of Aspects didn't match up with the style of the game they were in?
Quick update for clarity
As mentioned later in the thread, I'm not looking for ways to compel these specific Aspects. I'm just mentioning them as a specific example to demonstrate the problem.
What I'm looking for is generic advice for how a Player can modify either their character or their playstyle in order to accomodate the story that the GM wants to tell. There is already tons of advice for how the GM can modify their story to suit the players, but I'm interested in the opposite. What can I do to make the game run more smoothly?
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New Warden In Town - Self-Compel to go out and be a jerk to people, shake them up, to hell with Diplomacy. Make some enemies. Basically, troll for punks.
Somebody Has To Do It - You could Self-Compel by getting involved in supernatural conflicts which aren't part of the main adventure, because you are the best one for the job. Especially when doing so will end up providing support that *will* loop back into the main plot.
Knowledge Is Power - Self-Compel to be lured astray by the promise of power or knowledge. Maybe it w*will* help in the long run, or maybe it was a false lead. And if someone offers you information to spare them, well, guess what? They came to the right Warden.
Been Around A Long Time - Resist the urge to move fast, opting to take the long road. Also, lord it over younger people in ways that aren't necessarily endearing.
Stubborn Old Mule - Don't be too eager to embrace new ideas. Choose to distrust people at first. Be stubborn.
Needs Of The Many Outweigh The Few - Put the needs of others (many others) ahead of your own. Suffer. Take damage. When large amounts of innocents are being held hostage, give them what they want. Besides, you've Been Around a Long Time, and you know an opportunity will present itself to get the bad guy.
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Somebody Has To Do It - You could Self-Compel by getting involved in supernatural conflicts which aren't part of the main adventure, because you are the best one for the job. Especially when doing so will end up providing support that *will* loop back into the main plot.
Knowledge Is Power - Self-Compel to be lured astray by the promise of power or knowledge. Maybe it w*will* help in the long run, or maybe it was a false lead. And if someone offers you information to spare them, well, guess what? They came to the right Warden.
In particular, it sounds like, with some buy in from the GM and other players, that these two would let you introduce some hooks for the less CSI style stories you seem to be jonesing to play.
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New Warden In Town - As the new 'cop' you'll have to prove yourself. You can't "let things slide" not even minor things by allies...
Somebody Has To Do It - Yes you do...have fun cleaning up all those messes supernatural creatures will leave. :)
Knowledge Is Power - You have to use your knowledge when it will gain you power. Even if it was supposed to be a secret or may have been better off saved...
Been Around A Long Time - You've been around a long time and you're a Stubborn Old Mule...you luddite. Facebook is a picture book of faces, right?
Stubborn Old Mule - You don't change easily...anytime changing might give you an easier path to your goal, you stubbornly push through with your plans instead of changing.
Needs Of The Many Outweigh The Few - You need to help / protect / save the largest number of people...even if the bad guy gets away or, worse, a friend is taken down.
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In a very basic way, self-compelling is rewarding yourself for good rping of your PC.
My char is an Ancient Order Sworn Protector (Pure Mortal) for another PC. Was he going to do his bare-fisted level best to fight mercs w/ assault rifles?
Yep. Without being compelled by that High Concept, any sane person would be running in the other direction.
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Why not fill your last aspect with one that rewards unwise combat tactics? Like EVOCATION IS TOO EASY, which would compel you to fight opponents that you could magically one-shot with your sword.
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I guess I wasn't being clear (which is understandable, because it's a pretty open-ended question that I'm asking).
I know how I, personally, would want to compel these aspects. I designed them to be compelled similar to the ways devonapple and Umbralux suggested. The problem is that those situations don't really seem to be coming up in actual play.
Take "Stubborn Old Mule", for example. I thought this would be paying off Fate Points all the time. But so far most of our scenes tend to be crime scenes or interviewing victims. It's tough to be stubborn in the face of, say, a ransacked room. "Darn it, room! Your disorganization won't stop me from finding out the TRUTH!"
So I guess I'm interested in learning:
- How do players manuever the story so that their Aspects can be compelled more?
- How do players modify their Aspects to fit the GM's current style of story?
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Why not fill your last aspect with one that rewards unwise combat tactics? Like EVOCATION IS TOO EASY, which would compel you to fight opponents that you could magically one-shot with your sword.
That's a good suggestion, and I will see if I can think of something along those lines. On the other hand, what's the point of playing a Wizard if you can't cut loose with Evocation?
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In particular, it sounds like, with some buy in from the GM and other players, that these two would let you introduce some hooks for the less CSI style stories you seem to be jonesing to play.
Yes, that's certainly what I'm hoping for. But at the same time, there's nothing wrong with investigation-style games, so I also wanted to see if there was a good way to tweak my character to fit his stories, rather than vice-versa.
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Well, if you want to cut loose with evocation, you could try:
EVOCATION IS THE ANSWER TO EVERYTHING
NO IDEA HOW TO USE MY SWORD
OVERKILL MUCH?
OVERCONFIDENCE
NOT A TEAM PLAYER
A BIT TOO CAUTIOUS.
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I'm curious, how has the GM compelled your Aspects in the game so far?
Edit: Actually, let me add what I'm really thinking, subtlety not my strong suit. Self compels are not the bread and butter of this game, Compels are. Self compels are nice, but they're no substitute for a GM hitting your character with Compels. So, have you asked the GM why he hasn't been Compelling the shit out of your Aspects? Because there's nothing wrong or hard to hit about them. They look juicy to me.
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Firstly let me say that I am not suggesting that you try to irritate the actual players, or in any way damage the atmosphere of your gaming group (in other words don't piss everyone else off). However with a set of aspects like that I would assume it could very much effect your relationship with other player characters, making the situation more difficult and giving you more fate points.
Stubborn+Been around a long time = Your opinions and beliefs are always right/better. It takes a lot of convincing to get you to come around to someone else's idea. New warden in town = mistrust of others. You haven't known anyone for very long so you might not be forthcoming with the group about everything. In addition you might over-do your part of any plan, as you don't trust others to do theirs.
Finally you might want to see some of your aspects in a different light. Knowledge is power could also mean that you tend to try to over-do the information gathering part or that you over-complicate and over-think some situations. Been around a long time could mean that you tend to dismiss or overlook new things (like the newfangled internets). It could also lead to situations with NPCs much like I mentioned above (I.E. you're always right).
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Well, if you want to cut loose with evocation, you could try:
EVOCATION IS THE ANSWER TO EVERYTHING
NO IDEA HOW TO USE MY SWORD
OVERKILL MUCH?
OVERCONFIDENCE
NOT A TEAM PLAYER
A BIT TOO CAUTIOUS.
Heh. Yes... that would certainly make for a crazy evocator, but it wouldn't be that useful for an investigation-style game, which is really what I'm looking for.
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How do players manuever the story so that their Aspects can be compelled more?
Use the Aspect to directly maneuver the story, that's what Declarations are for.
New Warden In Town - Spend a Fate point and make up a long standing rivalry between two people that you accidentally bring up, or invent an old sore spot in a major character that you poke because you don't know better.
Somebody Has To Do It - Spend a Fate point and say that everyone else who could have done it is busy or out of town.
That's the great thing about the FATE system, the players are GM's too!
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I'm curious, how has the GM compelled your Aspects in the game so far?
He's still learning the FATE system, and we've only run a few sessions so far, so there haven't been too many compels. I think it's likely that there will be more compels as he gets the hang of the game.
By far, the Aspect that gets compelled the most in our group is "God's Cop" (which belongs to another PC). For myself, the "Warden" trapping of "New Warden In Town" gets compelled occasionally, whenever I get called on to perform White Council business.
So, have you asked the GM why he hasn't been Compelling the shit out of your Aspects? Because there's nothing wrong or hard to hit about them. They look juicy to me.
Thanks. I like them, too! But I do wonder if they're actually "getting in the way" of an investigation style game. For example, like sinker suggested, I could use stubborness or "being old" as an excuse to slow down an investigation, but I'm not sure how I would do it in a way that made the investigation more interesting.
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Use the Aspect to directly maneuver the story, that's what Declarations are for.
New Warden In Town - Spend a Fate point and make up a long standing rivalry between two people that you accidentally bring up, or invent an old sore spot in a major character that you poke because you don't know better.
Somebody Has To Do It - Spend a Fate point and say that everyone else who could have done it is busy or out of town.
That's the great thing about the FATE system, the players are GM's too!
I'm not looking for more ways to spend Fate points. I'm looking for ways to gain them!
No, seriously, though, that's definitely good advice. My plan has been to introduce/compel old rivalries or related backstories via the Been Around A Long Time aspect when we start meeting the bigger Faces in town. But, outside of "first meetings" with a new character, I'm not sure how else I could use that trick.
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I wanted to say Thanks, by the way, for everyone's advice. I feel like I may be coming across a bit negative towards people's ideas, when really I'm (a) just trying to formalize my own question, and (b) trying to play Devil's Advocate a bit. But you're already given me some great ideas, and I think it's an interesting discussion.
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I'm not looking for more ways to spend Fate points. I'm looking for ways to gain them!
Oh ... wait, yeah. Considering you're making your character's life harder I think maybe it might be justified to ask for Fate points.
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Just to go through my own list of Aspects, and my ideas about each one:
New Warden In Town
We actually haven't met too many local magic-users yet, so I think this will get easier to compel in later stories. The game is set in Boston, where new faces are generally unwelcome. So a new face who is also a Warden should be particularly distrusted. The difficulty so far has been that we've mainly met mundane bystanders or people who are already suspicious of us, so it hasn't really come into play that much.
Somebody Has To Do It
I've self-compelled this a few times. I like it as a Trouble-Aspect, but I don't think it would come up too often. In an investigation-style game, you learn about a problem, self-compel ("Well, somebody's got to take care of this!"), and then that Aspect is pretty much done as far as compels go. That's not necessarily a bad thing, since it's done it's job of getting me into Trouble. (But's it's not earning me piles of Fate points either!)
I had thought this Aspect might work by having my character over-commit to lots of different jobs. ("I'm dealing with another big problem right now, but somebody's got to help you!") But we've pretty much been tackling cases individually, so that hasn't come up.
Knowledge Is Power
This is your basic "Indiana Jones" Aspect. Sacrifice the Ark of the Covenant to save the Girl? Hmm... Tough decision... This could come up more later, but so far we haven't encountered any fonts of knowledge or interesting relics that I'd need to defend. It could be that the GM just needs to leave more ancient texts lying around, but I'd be interested in ideas for how to fit "Find and protect knowledge" motivations into a "Solve This Crime" storyline.
Been Around A Long Time
I've talked about this a bit already. The character is a two-hundred-year-old White Council veteran. He's been around a long time, so he's got plenty of backstory. The plan is to start compelling complications as we meet new people ("Oh, by the way, the local head of the White Court? We used to be engaged... Fate Point Oh, and I killed her brother... Another Fate Point") I think I could get some good mileage out of this one, but since we've only met "small fish" so far, I haven't been able to think of a good compel for it yet. Plus, I don't want to overdo it. ("This nurse was just attacked by a ghoul!" "I... uh... knew her father?" "Dude, you can't be connected to every random person you meet."
Stubborn Old Mule
This aspect and the next one are the ones giving me the most trouble. We've been running investigation-style stories so far, by which I mean they follow the pattern: "Learn about a problem" --> "Investigate the source of the problem" --> "Deal with the problem". Since the plotline is fairly linear, I can't think of any way that being old or stubborn could make things more interesting. It seems more likely that they would get in the way. Until someone tries to stop me from doing something or pursuing someone, the Aspect will just be sitting there, gathering dust.
Needs Of The Many Outweigh The Few
So far the needs of the many and the needs of the few have been pretty compatible. Random guy is killing people with magic? He should probably be stopped. I think both individuals and the overall majority would agree with that. I think the problem may be that these two aspects, while interesting, seem particularly dependent on what the GM throws at me. Is there a way to design Aspects that are more story-independent? Should you design Aspects to be story-dependent, or is it the GM's responsibility to bend their storyline to hit your Aspects?
(plus one more I plan to replace anyway)
I think I'll take Sanctaphrax's advice about "unwise combat decision" Aspects. I'm leaning towards "Always Give Them A Chance", which would compel me to waste a turn at the start of every combat to ask for a truce/surrender/etc. Plus he would generally be against ambushes (unless he'd already offered the enemy a chance). What do you think?
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Always Give Them A Chance sounds good to me.
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Somebody Has To Do It
I've self-compelled this a few times. I like it as a Trouble-Aspect, but I don't think it would come up too often. In an investigation-style game, you learn about a problem, self-compel ("Well, somebody's got to take care of this!"), and then that Aspect is pretty much done as far as compels go. That's not necessarily a bad thing, since it's done it's job of getting me into Trouble. (But's it's not earning me piles of Fate points either!)
I had thought this Aspect might work by having my character over-commit to lots of different jobs. ("I'm dealing with another big problem right now, but somebody's got to help you!") But we've pretty much been tackling cases individually, so that hasn't come up.
Something I just realized is that you could probably invent your own projects. That down-on-his-luck NPC you just talked to? New project. That single mother of three? New project.
For that matter you could actually invent your own projects. Tell the GM what you're thinking and see if you can get them on it too. That way there could be any number of compels resulting at any time.
I think the problem may be that these two aspects, while interesting, seem particularly dependent on what the GM throws at me. Is there a way to design Aspects that are more story-independent? Should you design Aspects to be story-dependent, or is it the GM's responsibility to bend their storyline to hit your Aspects?
This is something that came up when I first started GMing DFRPG. When you're used to creating campaigns the normal way DFRPG is very hard to adjust to. You might want to take your GM aside sometime (Ha! Take role reversal!) and see how well they're dealing with the story creating mechanics. See if you can help them in any way of if the party at large can. When I first started I had two issues. One that I wasn't familiar with how to tailor a story so much to the characters, and two my whole party lacked story aspects (there were maybe three or four total story aspects in a party of six-eight people), but I didn't necessarily want to share with the group that I was struggling.
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For unwise combat decisions I think the ultimate Aspects got to be 'Will never sacrifice Anything, ever!' You have to play for a complete victory and the moment there is a death the GM can compel relentless self-destructive behaviour.
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New Warden In Town
The GM should be compelling the fact that you're new, so you're not trusted and don't have a network of contacts you can trust. You're also a warden, so you should be getting hit with compels to get involved in things that pull you from the investigation and bring danger and excitement into your life.
Somebody Has To Do It
I've self-compelled this a few times. I like it as a Trouble-Aspect, but I don't think it would come up too often. In an investigation-style game, you learn about a problem, self-compel ("Well, somebody's got to take care of this!"), and then that Aspect is pretty much done as far as compels go.
This should be getting you into lots of trouble along with your Stubborn Old Mule trait. But, the GM needs to throw out some trouble for the getting into. If it's just investigation, without jeopardy...oh well. Notice that the Dresden books have quite a bit of jeopardy mixed into the investigating.
Knowledge Is Power
This is your basic "Indiana Jones" Aspect. Sacrifice the Ark of the Covenant to save the Girl? Hmm... Tough decision... This could come up more later, but so far we haven't encountered any fonts of knowledge or interesting relics that I'd need to defend. It could be that the GM just needs to leave more ancient texts lying around, but I'd be interested in ideas for how to fit "Find and protect knowledge" motivations into a "Solve This Crime" storyline.
The GM needs to give you a puzzle you desperately need to solve and then dangle dangerous or forbidden knowledge in front of you that could solve it.
Been Around A Long Time
I've talked about this a bit already. The character is a two-hundred-year-old White Council veteran. He's been around a long time, so he's got plenty of backstory.
The bad guys should also know who he is and know that he's in town. They should be making your life difficult with, I don't know, contract killers, magical attacks, etc.
Stubborn Old Mule
This aspect and the next one are the ones giving me the most trouble. We've been running investigation-style stories so far, by which I mean they follow the pattern: "Learn about a problem" --> "Investigate the source of the problem" --> "Deal with the problem". Since the plotline is fairly linear, I can't think of any way that being old or stubborn could make things more interesting.
A GM should be looking for ways to get you into trouble because you're too stubborn to back off. If you attempt to play it safe, they should Compel your Stubborn Old Mule trait to get you moving into danger. You can self compel this, but only if the GM is putting up situations that make stubbornness a hindrance. Harry is stubborn when on a case, and it gets him into no end of hot water.
Needs Of The Many Outweigh The Few
... or is it the GM's responsibility to bend their storyline to hit your Aspects?
Bingo! We have a winner!
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or is it the GM's responsibility to bend their storyline to hit your Aspects?
Bingo! We have a winner!
I think there's some truth to that, but I don't know that it's 100% true. Sure, I could easily just say "It's the GM's job to bend the story to my character" and put all the responsibility on him. But then, if nothing changes, neither one of us will be happy.
The player uses Aspects to tell the GM what type of game they want to play. The books talk a lot about how the GM can use those Aspects to make a better game for the players.
The GM, conversely, introduces characters and situations to tell the players what type of game they want to run. What can the player do with that information to make a better game experience (for both player and GM)?
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The player uses Aspects to tell the GM what type of game they want to play. The books talk a lot about how the GM can use those Aspects to make a better game for the players.
The GM, conversely, introduces characters and situations to tell the players what type of game they want to run. What can the player do with that information to make a better game experience (for both player and GM)?
This is really an awesome tool that evil hat has created for player-GM communication, but you really shouldn't rely on it to the exclusion of simple speech. If you are having issues then the GM is also having issues and I'm sure s/he really wants this to be better. Talk to them.
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This is really an awesome tool that evil hat has created for player-GM communication, but you really shouldn't rely on it to the exclusion of simple speech. If you are having issues then the GM is also having issues and I'm sure s/he really wants this to be better. Talk to them.
Once again, this isn't an issue of communication, nor am I trying to change the GM's methods. As I said earlier, he's working on learning the system and how to better use Aspects. I think the line of communication from player to GM is working reasonably well. And I think the game gives the GM lots of tools for how to modify the story to fit the player's characters.
However, the question I'm interested in is the opposite. I feel like the GM is communicating something to the players, via his GM-ing, about the game he wants to run. But I'm not sure how to use the player's tools to better suit the game.
This is basically an "Ask Not What Your GM Can Do For You, But What You Can Do For Your GM" kind of situation.
To be clear, there's nothing wrong with the game I'm playing now. It's fun. It's new. We're all learning the system as we play and having a good time. I'm just looking for ways to tune the engine so that it runs even better.
One issue right now is that Aspects aren't getting compelled enough
- The GM can help with this problem by tweaking the story to better suit the players
- What can the players do?
Surely the players are not powerless to improve the game, right? Our fun shouldn't rely solely on the GM's abilities.
I've already learned and implemented one valuable strategy from this post:
If combat occurs regularly, pick an Aspect that will complicate combat
And I suppose that advice could be generalized further:
If a type of event occurs regularly in your game, pick an Aspect that will complicate that type of event
With the unspoken corrolary:
The Aspect should complicate the event, but not break it or halt it
Are there any other pieces of Advice for tweaking Aspects (or Stunts/Powers/Skills/Playstyle) to improve the game you're playing in?
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"Plus, I don't want to overdo it. ("This nurse was just attacked by a ghoul!" "I... uh... knew her father?" "Dude, you can't be connected to every random person you meet."
Actually, I kind of like that idea. Speaking from a GM point of veiw, your character's age must mean that collateral descendents, children and great-grands and such of people that you have met - not that you know "that person" but that you knew their financee's family, or their great-grandfather, or that they "look exactly like a girlfriend I had 90 years ago"; there could be some really cool stuff here.
And as for self-compels, add into the above, the idea that you may have (as an overprotective overzealous warden) have made flippant-at-the-time promises to "look after their kids" or some such.
Dian
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This is basically an "Ask Not What Your GM Can Do For You, But What You Can Do For Your GM" kind of situation.
I guess what I was trying to say is "Ask Your GM What You Can Do For Your GM", but that isn't really helpful to the topic so I'll stop.
One of the things about DFRPG is that the players stories are just as valid as the GM's. You can create those complications on your own, without relying on the GM (Although getting a nod from him/her initially isn't a bad idea). You can invent people and places wholesale if the GM is willing. You can be a GM as well as a player if you want, and that might help with compels.
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Taking a shot at these aspects:
So the idea is to find ways to self-compel and gain FATE points...
New Warden In Town
Look in a newspaper (or better yet the Sun or the Enquirer) for ideas, see if any of them could be in your character's paper/town, and since you are there, insist that you check them out. Or look at a local crime map and feel responsible for mysterious crime/possibly magical or esoteric crap.
Somebody Has To Do It
Kind of overlaps with the above. Which may mean that you could afford to swap this one out for something else.
Knowledge Is Power
Could mean that your character insists on actually going to council meetings, taking on grunt jobs for the data you'd pick up. Or do you have a divination specialty?
Been Around A Long Time
This is the one you probably use for "I knew her grandfather"? How about knowing "a cemetary used to be there" (explains why the local WalMart is a mystical hotspot) same with Native (insert appropriate tribe) sacred spots, former churches and so on. Hmm...how can you compel that? Do you feel responsible, or potentially responsible if there is a "john doe" body found?
On the other hand, just how long? Do you derail things by insisting that this or that social ritual "must" be done? Do you get upset when seeing too much thigh (or whatever) on a "respectable" lady? Could possibly be bent to be overly chivalrous.
Stubborn Old Mule
"Back in my day", you might play this up by being enthusiastic about hexing "newfangled crap" to your PC's detrtiment.
Needs Of The Many Outweigh The Few
Well, any time you have to behead someone, this is being manifest. I'm guessing you will never get entangled in a Doom of Damocles situation.... hard to think about this one, because frankly I dislike it.
Hmmm... maybe I"m tired, I'm not really thrilled with any of these tonight.
Dian
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I guess what I was trying to say is "Ask Your GM What You Can Do For Your GM", but that isn't really helpful to the topic so I'll stop.
Heh. Let me turn the question back around to you. If you were the GM, what would you want from your players?
As an extreme example, let's say you wanted to run Dresden Files so that you could build a city full of intrigue, social interaction, and high moral stakes. Then your players all built a bunch of combat monsters with Aspects like "Shoot First, Ask Questions Never". You would want to sit down and talk to your players, right? What would you ask them?
One of the things about DFRPG is that the players stories are just as valid as the GM's. You can create those complications on your own, without relying on the GM (Although getting a nod from him/her initially isn't a bad idea). You can invent people and places wholesale if the GM is willing. You can be a GM as well as a player if you want, and that might help with compels.
That can be true, but it isn't necessary true. As you say, the GM has to be willing. In my case, the GM isn't quite comfortable yet with that level of story improvisation. He plans a ton of stuff in advance, so if tried to introduce too many sub and/or side plots it would just end up hijacking whatever story he wanted to tell in the first place.
So...
- You're the GM.
- You have a cool, investigation-style story to tell - picture CSI, NCIS, the first half of every Law and Order, etc.
- You want to get all the characters involved, but since the plot lines all revolve around crime and investigation, it's the local cop character that ends up driving most of the story (and getting most of the compels).
- You could change your plot or your storytelling style, but you were really interested in telling that story.
If you could ask your players to change something (characters, playstyle, etc.) what would you ask them? Can that advice be made generic for all players and GM's?
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"If you could ask your players to change something (characters, playstyle, etc.) what would you ask them? Can that advice be made generic for all players and GM's?"
Hmm... I'd reinforce that for whatever reason, the CHARACTERS should have strong trusting relationships, and I'd ask for more work on the background/aspects to support this and more roleplaying of it. The truth is though, mostly that doesn't come up. I'm blessed with some really good role players as players, and the less experienced folks are willing to learn/explore, which is nice.
Dian
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As an extreme example, let's say you wanted to run Dresden Files so that you could build a city full of intrigue, social interaction, and high moral stakes. Then your players all built a bunch of combat monsters with Aspects like "Shoot First, Ask Questions Never". You would want to sit down and talk to your players, right? What would you ask them?
Here's the thing. We would have spent a session together in City Creation and another session together building characters into that setting together. So, I'm having trouble with the whole I want intrigue they have combat monsters setup. Why did that happen? We should have good idea of the type of game we're going after here. As GM, I think I messed up before play began.
Secondly, after city creation and character generation I walk away with a metric fuckton of Aspects. Before the next session I should have a good idea of at least a couple ways to hit each character's aspects during the game with compels, and some ways that those aspects can shine in invokes, or I know I'm in trouble.
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Here's the thing. We would have spent a session together in City Creation and another session together building characters into that setting together. So, I'm having trouble with the whole I want intrigue they have combat monsters setup. Why did that happen? We should have good idea of the type of game we're going after here. As GM, I think I messed up before play began.
It doesn't matter when]/i] the disconnect was discovered between players and GM. It could have been before the game started, or during City Creation, etc. In this particular example, the players start talking about combat stunts, then the GM says they want to play a more social, dramatic game. After a quick, civilized discussion, the players agree that they want to play that type of game, but they're not sure how to make characters to fit that type of game. And the GM tells them... what?
One way or another, the players and GM have agreed to some style of play (combat-heavy, stealth and intrigue, investigation-heavy, etc.). Knowing that, how should the players make characters, or tweak their existing character ideas, to fit that style of play?
Secondly, after city creation and character generation I walk away with a metric fuckton of Aspects. Before the next session I should have a good idea of at least a couple ways to hit each character's aspects during the game with compels, and some ways that those aspects can shine in invokes, or I know I'm in trouble.
Sure, but again, that's putting all the responsibility on the GM, which is what I'm explicitly trying to avoid. I am not the GM, and I don't necesarily want him to change what he's doing. I would prefer to modify my own character to suit his story style, but I find that I don't have any concrete ideas about how to do that.
The GM has lots of input on how to modify their playstyle to match the players (City Creation and Character Aspects). What tools do the Players have, and how do they use them?
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"If you could ask your players to change something (characters, playstyle, etc.) what would you ask them? Can that advice be made generic for all players and GM's?"
Hmm... I'd reinforce that for whatever reason, the CHARACTERS should have strong trusting relationships, and I'd ask for more work on the background/aspects to support this and more roleplaying of it. The truth is though, mostly that doesn't come up. I'm blessed with some really good role players as players, and the less experienced folks are willing to learn/explore, which is nice.
Dian
That's interesting advice. How does that help Aspects to be compelled (or storyline to advance)? Wouldn't some antagonism between characters (not players) make Compels easier?