ParanetOnline

The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Katarn on February 03, 2011, 10:21:26 PM

Title: NEED HELP- Rome Game
Post by: Katarn on February 03, 2011, 10:21:26 PM
Alright so I'm GMing my first game with 5 players I know IRL (not on this site).  They voted, and Rome won in a landslide.  This is quite a challenging city, given its history and religious aspects.  I'm not asking for locations or themes, but where do I begin with a game of this nature?  Political intrigue? True believers abound? Knights/Denarian cameos?  Former White Council complex?  Not sure where to even start.

*None of them have DFPRG experience, though they have heavy D&D experience (hence I'll have to point out the emphasis on story)
*Of the 5, one has read DF (and he knows it thoroughly).
*I have very little DFRPG experience, but a lot of D&D under my belt.
Title: Re: NEED HELP- Rome Game
Post by: devonapple on February 03, 2011, 10:23:26 PM
This isn't meant to sound pedantic, but: what kind of game do the players want? Edit: which may be hard if they are relatively inexperienced with DF and the game system. But that is the best way to generate stories is to see what sort of stories interest them. Maybe they want to translate the traditional D&D type of plot into DFRPG? If the answer is "they don't know," then maybe we can come up with some suggestions on the forum for you.

I am, unfortunately, speaking as one who had to actually build the City and determine the Faces myself, and only really got player input on the major Themes and Threats.
Title: Re: NEED HELP- Rome Game
Post by: bibliophile20 on February 03, 2011, 11:08:31 PM
Also, time period is important.  Remember that the White Council once set up shop in the basement of St. Peter's Basilica centuries ago.  Also, there's this to consider:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: NEED HELP- Rome Game
Post by: devonapple on February 03, 2011, 11:14:27 PM
Actual suggestions:
The Vatican: standing against the darkness, part of the problem, or absorbed in their own affairs?
"Da Vinci Code": something powerful and dangerous was hidden in Rome, for good reason, but rumors of its power have resurfaced, and the players need to beat the bad guys (Denarians?) to it.
Insurrection: a cadre of Black Court Vampires/Red Court Vampires/ Denarians are secretly working to weaken the Church's power base, right under the Vatican's nose.
It Belongs in a Museum: historical artifact stolen, and research indicates it had occult significance; what are the thieves planning to do with it, and can the players stop them in time and restore this priceless artifact to its proper place?
Overdue Library Book: the Venators are looking for a particularly foul book said to be buried in the Vatican's cavernous archives, but when they pull some strings to gain access, they find it has been stolen! The players are framed for the theft, and must work to clear their name as well as help the Venators recover this evil tome before the White Council gets a hold of it and publishes it.

Edit: Ninja Attack: what are ninja doing in Rome? The players must find out before they enact their mysterious plan.
Title: Re: NEED HELP- Rome Game
Post by: sinker on February 03, 2011, 11:18:00 PM
Also, there's this to consider:
(click to show/hide)

A ninja would be awesome in a 17th century Italian game about politics and intrigue. Plus, haven't you played the second assassin's creed? There were all sorts of ninjas in 17th century Italy. We all know video game=historical fact.  :)
Title: Re: NEED HELP- Rome Game
Post by: bitterpill on February 03, 2011, 11:39:30 PM
I find that for places with a lot of history like European Cities it is best to include some flavour of the myths of the location in game, having different secret societies like the rozenkruetz and tying them to the supernatural might work as well.
Title: Re: NEED HELP- Rome Game
Post by: toturi on February 04, 2011, 12:08:59 AM
A ninja would be awesome in a 17th century Italian game about politics and intrigue.
Indeed.

A munchkin has fun at the cost of ruining the group's fun, that's awful. But wanting to play a character that shakes up the premise? Now that's awesome.
Title: Re: NEED HELP- Rome Game
Post by: devonapple on February 04, 2011, 12:11:34 AM
Four words: Vatican witch hunter assassin.
Title: Re: NEED HELP- Rome Game
Post by: Katarn on February 04, 2011, 12:14:08 AM
Wow lots of fast responses.  Most of my players enjoy a good plot, but all of them enjoy a good fight.  I was trying to figure out what to use for this City.  I might use an unnamed Denarian- once- later on when they're way stronger, but I need generic grunts.

(Oh, and 1 of my players is a ninja nut so he'll try that regardless of time period  ;D )

*Set in modern day (probably between White Night and Small Favor so there's Paranet and Michael is still a Knight- not major but in case I need a cameo.)
*Definitely going to use Vatican Political Intrigue- some fighting darkness (Ordo Malleus), most unaware, heavy internal affairs
*Gonna use True Believers, don't want to overdo though.
*White Council post of small wizard's contingent? Headed up by Rome's Warden
*(Abandoned original WC Complex)
*I'm definitely going to use Illuminati- who are the rozenkruetz?
*"Da Vinci"-style artifact (Item of Power) is a great idea.  Stolen by magic thieves?

Quote from: devonapple- cut some out mentioned above
Actual suggestions:
Insurrection: a cadre of Black Court Vampires/Red Court Vampires/ Denarians are secretly working to weaken the Church's power base, right under the Vatican's nose.
Overdue Library Book: the Venators are looking for a particularly foul book said to be buried in the Vatican's cavernous archives, but when they pull some strings to gain access, they find it has been stolen! The players are framed for the theft, and must work to clear their name as well as help the Venators recover this evil tome before the White Council gets a hold of it and publishes it.
I cut out half the quote already mentioned by others, but I like the
(click to show/hide)
part- adds to natural intrigue.

Four words: Vatican witch hunter assassin.
Father Kincaid?  I am so using this.


My biggest problem with be
*the right kind of generic enemy thugs
*not devoting the entire game to the Vatican/faith power


Thoughts on generic thugs and non-Vatican/faith ideas?
Title: Re: NEED HELP- Rome Game
Post by: bitterpill on February 04, 2011, 12:31:48 AM
The rosenkreuz literally mean the rose cross, it is an order that is ocassionally linked to the Knights Templar. The rosenkreuz were said to have gained esoteric wisdom from the middle-east and are heavily linked to the world of the occult. It was said that founder of the order lived for 120 years and had prophetic dreams leaving behind all sorts of wills and testaments only to be read at certain points.  <Edit> Some argue the magical elements of this 'religion's' history were a myth I can neither prove nor deny I am one of those people.

With Rome as a setting, there is the Italian Mafia to provide generic thugs also if you want another non-faith power you could create a Millionaire who percieved himself as the 'Prince of Rome' and was actively seeking to gain absolute power over Rome.
Title: Re: NEED HELP- Rome Game
Post by: sinker on February 04, 2011, 01:32:49 AM
The rosenkreuz literally mean the rose cross, it is an order that is ocassionally linked to the Knights Templar. The rosenkreuz were said to have gained esoteric wisdom from the middle-east and are heavily linked to the world of the occult. It was said that founder of the order lived for 120 years and had prophetic dreams leaving behind all sorts of wills and testaments only to be read at certain points. The order is a myth or at least a legend but there still ocassionally used by fantasy and sifi novels.

Modern Rosicrucians might disagree with you. They're currently an organized religion of-sorts akin to the modern masons.

If you're going to use modern day Rome then there's a ton of non-Vatican stuff you can do. It is a modern city after all. A huge population center full of commerce and industry, much like any other major city.
Title: Re: NEED HELP- Rome Game
Post by: tordon on February 04, 2011, 04:36:55 AM
We were going to have a Rome PBP, but it fizzled out.  We were also focusing on the return of the old gods from Rome and Greece, as well as the potential for lots of necromancy, given the long history. 
Title: Re: NEED HELP- Rome Game
Post by: Malivotti on February 04, 2011, 03:50:29 PM

With Rome as a setting, there is the Italian Mafia to provide generic thugs also if you want another non-faith power you could create a Millionaire who percieved himself as the 'Prince of Rome' and was actively seeking to gain absolute power over Rome.

The connections between the Mafia and the Church are scary to consider, just off the top of my head, the Vatican Bank scandal with Michele Sindona, Sindona was the point man for the Bank and was laundering the drug money for the Gambino Family through the Vatican Bank, when John Paul I learned of this he started an investigation, but the Pope died of natural causes 33 days into office, do you believe in coincidence? You should also check up Roberto Calvi, The Banco Ambrosiano, P2 Lodge (Masonic Lodge, Shadow Government)

Also the Vatican Bank has been involved money laundering of Nazi and pro Nazi loot from WWII, check out information on 'Independent State of Croatia' from WWII (pay note to 1/3 of the Serb population was to be forced to covert to Catholicism.)
Add to that the Vatican Archives and the Nazi habit of occult studies and looting you begin to wonder just what books does the Vatican have hidden away?

The Vatican Secret Archives have over 50 miles of shelves and is estimated to have in excess of 150,000 items with 35,000 items just in the catalogue!! Oh and there are several other Secret Archives one at least for each branch of the Roman Curia, what is in the Holy Inquisition Archive? The complete works of Kemmler maybe? A true copy the Malleus Maleficarum with information on how to discover and defeat Wizards powers and kill them perhaps...   

Also add Opus Dei to the mix...hehe. Something about guys and gals in holy vestment carrying duffel bags filled with body armour and assault weapons all taking and oath of silence just warms my heart when looking for plots. 
Title: Re: NEED HELP- Rome Game
Post by: sjksprocket on February 04, 2011, 06:15:13 PM
Plus you can see if the party has a large number of a certain type of character. Lots of fae could mean more time in the nevernever, dealing with the courts. What does Rome look like in the nevernever? If a lot of players choose wizards maybe have the game more magic oriented. If there is a lo of shape-shifters you could spend some time in the rolling country side.
Title: Re: NEED HELP- Rome Game
Post by: Katarn on February 04, 2011, 08:50:52 PM
Lots of good ideas:

*Definitely using rosenkurtz somehow (akin to Illuminati perhaps)
*Vatican/Nazi involvement- interesting, my team would probably enjoy that.
*Mundane organizations- R.C.Church, Roman Curia, Italian Mafia, Zog's Cadre (Albania nationalists), Filiberto's Cadre (Italian Royalist Movement), Italian Govt., Rome's Municipal Govt, and some terrorist organization.  Anyone think of more?
*All of Malivotti's ideas- my team will appreciate religious cynicism and intrigue.  I just don't want to overstress Vatican.  I need more Rome-sans-Vatican ideas.

My guess is that about 2 of them will be spellcasters (the Dresden veteran and the perennial D&D mage), 1 were-wolf, 1 Pure Mortal, 1 ???.  So a diverse bunch- but that'll lend to a more open set of stories.
Title: Re: NEED HELP- Rome Game
Post by: Malivotti on February 04, 2011, 10:06:02 PM
Lots of good ideas:

*Definitely using rosenkurtz somehow (akin to Illuminati perhaps)
*Vatican/Nazi involvement- interesting, my team would probably enjoy that.
*Mundane organizations- R.C.Church, Roman Curia, Italian Mafia, Zog's Cadre (Albania nationalists), Filiberto's Cadre (Italian Royalist Movement), Italian Govt., Rome's Municipal Govt, and some terrorist organization.  Anyone think of more?
*All of Malivotti's ideas- my team will appreciate religious cynicism and intrigue.  I just don't want to overstress Vatican.  I need more Rome-sans-Vatican ideas.

My guess is that about 2 of them will be spellcasters (the Dresden veteran and the perennial D&D mage), 1 were-wolf, 1 Pure Mortal, 1 ???.  So a diverse bunch- but that'll lend to a more open set of stories.

Ok less Vatican ideas, if one of your players is running a werewolf then there is the tale of Romulus and Remus how they were nursed by a she-wolf maybe something in Rome aids or harms werewolves, or Rome has pact with werewolves.

More Italian thing but check out the House of Savoy, the last kings of Italy, forever exiled from Italy itself, why? Maybe a curse, maybe a prophesy, maybe just politics but what if a member of the House is a supernatural and wants to come back.

One interesting organization that has taken root in Rome is SMOM, Sovereign Military Order of Malta, the Knights of Malta. SMOM is part of the Italian Army as a 'allied' unit. Perhaps the Knights of the Cross are just the most visible, the point of the spear as it will. SMOM, the Knights of Malta are the direct descendants of the Knights Hospitaller, when the Knights Templar were dissolved 1312 the Knights Hospitaller inherited much of Templars holdings and property.

Rome has a modern road around it, almost a perfect circle called Grande Raccordo Anulare, what if it is a magical circle to keep Rome safe, or keep something in? A larger ring road is being planned. Why, is the old circle failing?

The Catacombs of Rome date back to the 200's with Pagans, Jews, and Christians all buried in them, just the place for a necromancer or two.

General things about Rome. VERY BAD TRAFFIC. IIRC there are about 12 taxis for every 10,000 people and only 2 or 3 subway lines, metro and buses are popular but heavily used, the city center of Rome bans cars from 6am to 6pm, other areas due to very active night life have nighttime car bans. Cars are bad, motorbikes are worse, scooters are insane. Forget everything you've ever heard about New York, Boston, Houston, even Paris. Rome is the worse for street size, placement, congestion. People who move to Rome are still afraid to drive after living there for more than 5 years... :o
Title: Re: NEED HELP- Rome Game
Post by: SoulCatcher78 on February 05, 2011, 03:53:15 AM
Ghosts of the past.  Rome has enough history (a large amount of it bloody) to have a huge amount of the restless dead.  The dead can be window dressing or something more exciting (yay, go team Necromancer!) if you need them to be. 

Rome brings people from all over the world so it's possible to do "monster of the week" if you'd want to.  Smuggling things into and out of the city could be a series of events/encounters in and of themselves.
Title: Re: NEED HELP- Rome Game
Post by: admiralducksauce on February 05, 2011, 04:10:14 PM
Ghosts of the past.  Rome has enough history (a large amount of it bloody) to have a huge amount of the restless dead.  The dead can be window dressing or something more exciting (yay, go team Necromancer!) if you need them to be. 

Rome brings people from all over the world so it's possible to do "monster of the week" if you'd want to.  Smuggling things into and out of the city could be a series of events/encounters in and of themselves.

Don't forget Interpol, right?  Surely you could use some not-quite clued-in mortal law enforcement to help or hinder your PCs.
Title: Re: NEED HELP- Rome Game
Post by: Katarn on February 06, 2011, 11:09:43 PM
*Italian King- I have an Italian Royalist Movement, mundane for the most part.  The king's departure could have supernatural components.
*SMOM- interesting, I'll look into it.
*Rome Circle- heh. heh. fun ideas.  mainly involving Greco-Roman gods using said circle....
*catacombs- doh.  should've thought of that one- it's a necro-no-brainer.
*traffic- just to annoy the PCs, diversions (for them and their adversaries)
*ghosts- definitely
*Monster of the week- I will definitely have some minor character cameos (like Forthill visiting Rome), and an occasionally big baddie.
*Interpol- them too.


Lots of great ideas, thanks for loads of help. If you get more ideas throw 'em below.
Title: Re: NEED HELP- Rome Game
Post by: Sanctaphrax on February 06, 2011, 11:22:31 PM
You asked earlier about what sort of generic enemy thugs to use. The appropriate type of thug depends heavily on the sort of campaign you want to run, so please tell us more.

Do you want the thugs to be slaughtered without remorse or do you want moral issues?
How tough are your players and how accurate/powerful are their attacks?
Is there any particular affiliation or emotion that you want your mooks to represent?
Title: Re: NEED HELP- Rome Game
Post by: jadecourtflunky on February 06, 2011, 11:51:26 PM
If you're doing rome, bring in romulus and remulus. Mabye the wolf that suckled them was in fact a spirit or were-form of some kind, and is still alive. Maybe Remulus' spirit still roams Rome. Also, bring in the possibility of a nearby phantom city (the one that remulus was going to create) in the nevernever.
Title: Re: NEED HELP- Rome Game
Post by: Katarn on February 08, 2011, 05:59:14 AM
I'll definitely figure a way to sneak Romulus and Remulus in there.... not sure how yet.

You asked earlier about what sort of generic enemy thugs to use. The appropriate type of thug depends heavily on the sort of campaign you want to run, so please tell us more.

Do you want the thugs to be slaughtered without remorse or do you want moral issues?
How tough are your players and how accurate/powerful are their attacks?
Is there any particular affiliation or emotion that you want your mooks to represent?
At least one will be a religious figure (possibly non-Christian), so I want at least 1 group of questionable foes (like, say, Reinfelds).  I'm looking for some interesting thugs, but also simple hack-n-slash foes as well.
This is going to be Waist or Chest Deep.
Affiliation- I'm open to ideas.  Any good grunt Fae for each court?
Title: Re: NEED HELP- Rome Game
Post by: sinker on February 08, 2011, 09:08:04 PM
It's possible that the fey might stay away from Rome. Christianity and Paganism have never really tolerated each other. Well, Christianity has never tolerated Paganism....
Title: Re: NEED HELP- Rome Game
Post by: Katarn on February 11, 2011, 08:03:32 PM
It's possible that the fey might stay away from Rome. Christianity and Paganism have never really tolerated each other. Well, Christianity has never tolerated Paganism....

I'd lean towards limited.  I don't see Fae as pagan or Christian issues.  They exist- although Lea hints that the White God is sometimes at odds with the Fae, so it could make Rome more interesting?


Other thoughts?  Events in Italy from the past (especially the last century and esp. esp. the last decade) are what I'm looking for.
Title: Re: NEED HELP- Rome Game
Post by: Sanctaphrax on February 14, 2011, 03:34:59 AM
Well, here are my first thoughts on possible mooks for your game. I made sure to only suggest types of mook that have at least one good example in either OW or the Generic NPC thread. Any of these catch your fancy?

Questionable foes:
Red Court infected
Mortals
Lycanthropes

Hack-n-slash foes:
Demons
Zombies
Animals
Title: Re: NEED HELP- Rome Game
Post by: Amseriah on February 14, 2011, 04:11:57 AM
I just went to Rome in August so a lot of it is still fresh in my mind.  Romani, Romani, Romani...there are gypsies in Rome and they are only sort of tolerated.  There is also a LOT of petty theft that occurs there, but rarely anything violent.  A common tactic on the subways is to have someone playing an instrument (normally a kid) who will walk around the subway train while playing distracting you from the person who is picking your pocket.  Maybe one of the mages has a focus item stolen and they have to find a way to get it back.  There are 2 subway lines in Rome, Line A and Line B. 

Don't forget about all of the ruins in Rome, the Colliseum, the Forum, the Trevi Fountain, etc.  They aren't associated with the Vatican at all, and have a ton of history.  Maybe there is a "Warlock" there who is breaking the law about playing with the dead so that he can channel the Great Masters of the art world because he wants to be an artist but lacks the skill. There is a huge draw for art thieves in Rome if you don't mind doing investigation games. 

There are also street gangs, like in most very large cities, but the vandalism of the buildings is truly awful...there isn't much violence but it wouldn't really be a stretch for them to become that way if you wanted to use them as mooks.  Rome is a HUGE tourist hotspot so there is a huge opportunity to throw in innocents that need to be protected or could be whipped up into a mob.  There is a lot of cultural info floating around in my head that I could tell you, but I don't think that it is that pertinent to a game.
Title: Re: NEED HELP- Rome Game
Post by: Amseriah on February 14, 2011, 04:18:33 AM
Oh!  I completely forgot, Italy is sort of unique in that while it is predominately Catholic the people are also very well known for their passion and promiscuity.  Rome is the seat for a lot of power, money, scandal, and also houses many passionate people...it is a perfect seat of power for certain White Court Vamps.
Title: Re: NEED HELP- Rome Game
Post by: Steppenwolf on February 15, 2011, 08:20:09 AM
Don't forget about all of the ruins in Rome, the Colliseum, the Forum, the Trevi Fountain, etc.  They aren't associated with the Vatican at all, and have a ton of history.

Actually Trevi Fountain is not a ruin and every piece of art in Rome which is not (ancient) Roman, was made by artists for the Vatican.

Another fact to be considered is firearms cannot be bought by people, unless for hunt or special purposes. And using a firearm can bring also a policeman to a trial.

BTW the promiscuity is not so diffused  ;)