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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: yogshog on January 29, 2011, 03:01:53 AM
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Howdy!
In http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,23179.0.html (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,23179.0.html), devonapple mentioned stacking taggable aspects using "navel gazing maneuvers". I am completely unsure of what that was intended to mean. Is it an obvious thing or something that has been discussed before? I tried searching the forums but no luck.
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A navel gazing maneuver is essentially a maneuver intended to place an aspect on yourself. Navel gazing maneuvers are typically not opposed by other characters, but it can happen if the other character has a decent justification. The base difficulty for such a maneuver, if I recall correctly, is Good (+3).
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Navel Gazing Maneuvers are described in the Taking Action chapter of the YS book. They are maneuvers that involve internal stuff like Deep in Concentration, Listening or Hard Core Method Acting.
Basically anything where, you're rolling dice and applying Aspects, but visually your character is gazing at their own navel.
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thanks!
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A navel gazing maneuver is essentially a maneuver intended to place an aspect on yourself. Navel gazing maneuvers are typically not opposed by other characters, but it can happen if the other character has a decent justification. The base difficulty for such a maneuver, if I recall correctly, is Good (+3).
That's the base maneuver difficulty for evocations....navel-gazing maneuvers themselves don't seem to have a base difficulty (beyond I guess 0)...it really seems to advise against being overly bothered by difficulty on them.
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It may be intended to mean meditation manuevers. There are a lot of people that use the phrase "Navel-gazing" to refer to meditation.
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Navel-gazing maneuvers is a term coined on YS207 to mean maneuvers placed by yourself, on yourself. They don't even have to be internal. Examples of external navel-gazing maneuvers could be finding cover, or a good place to shoot from.
As for maneuver difficulty it varies based on the circumstances and could be anywhere as low as average or any higher.
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Now a question on this... is there a limit to how many aspects you can Tag at a time? I know the only real limit to Invoking, is the number of aspects and fate points available to you, but if say, you wizard friend put an aspect on someone, another friend has put a Pinned Down aspect on him from cover fire, and you spend a turn to get an In Your Sights aspect, could you turn around the next turn, and tag all three of those aspects?
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Now a question on this... is there a limit to how many aspects you can Tag at a time? I know the only real limit to Invoking, is the number of aspects and fate points available to you, but if say, you wizard friend put an aspect on someone, another friend has put a Pinned Down aspect on him from cover fire, and you spend a turn to get an In Your Sights aspect, could you turn around the next turn, and tag all three of those aspects?
Yes indeed! This is the ultimate goal of most FATE conflicts: line up a bunch of Aspects and then tag them all at once to "take out" the opponent. That keeps combat from being a slog of stress-box attrition. Better to line those Aspects up and then wait until you have enough to make a decisive dent in the opposition.
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Now a question on this... is there a limit to how many aspects you can Tag at a time? I know the only real limit to Invoking, is the number of aspects and fate points available to you, but if say, you wizard friend put an aspect on someone, another friend has put a Pinned Down aspect on him from cover fire, and you spend a turn to get an In Your Sights aspect, could you turn around the next turn, and tag all three of those aspects?
Yup.
This is the only real way to do damage to tough opponents in fact.
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Hmm... well, that is very good to know, hehe... I want to say i heard somewhere on the forums a little while ago there was a limit, then I couldn't find it in the book...
So in other words, another thing you could do, as a thaumaturge at least...
You basically cast a spell, that will cause your target, under a specific set of conditions that you plan to set off at another point in time, to be suddenly struck by a sudden jolt of electricity... But rather than it be something to actually hurt them (while you could add a little bit to the spell i guess if you wanted to) it instead is the set up that its been cast for. The shock spell basically puts the tag-able aspects of Blinded, Dazed, Muscle Spasms, maybe a few more I can't think of. Then in your moment of truth, pull out a gun, tag your aspects, and pull your trigger?
And as a guess let me see... Not caring if the tags are made sticky, would that mean 3 or 4 complexity per aspect? And obviously, need to probably get past his Endurance and maybe a little more to be safe, so the spell will effect him... So.. would that be around a complexity 17 spell give or take in general, 6 to get past his Endurance fairly safely, and 3 comp each for the aspects? Would I need anything else, or does that sound about right? And a spell like this would probably fall under an Entropy Curse (Weapons-Grade) or along those lines at least, correct?
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Hmm... well, that is very good to know, hehe... I want to say i heard somewhere on the forums a little while ago there was a limit, then I couldn't find it in the book...
So in other words, another thing you could do, as a thaumaturge at least...
You basically cast a spell, that will cause your target, under a specific set of conditions that you plan to set off at another point in time, to be suddenly struck by a sudden jolt of electricity... But rather than it be something to actually hurt them (while you could add a little bit to the spell i guess if you wanted to) it instead is the set up that its been cast for. The shock spell basically puts the tag-able aspects of Blinded, Dazed, Muscle Spasms, maybe a few more I can't think of. Then in your moment of truth, pull out a gun, tag your aspects, and pull your trigger?
And as a guess let me see... Not caring if the tags are made sticky, would that mean 3 or 4 complexity per aspect? And obviously, need to probably get past his Endurance and maybe a little more to be safe, so the spell will effect him... So.. would that be around a complexity 17 spell give or take in general, 6 to get past his Endurance fairly safely, and 3 comp each for the aspects? Would I need anything else, or does that sound about right? And a spell like this would probably fall under an Entropy Curse (Weapons-Grade) or along those lines at least, correct?
You could also use thaumatergy to give yourself a bunch of aspects before you go to fight the big bad.
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And as a guess let me see... Not caring if the tags are made sticky, would that mean 3 or 4 complexity per aspect? And obviously, need to probably get past his Endurance and maybe a little more to be safe, so the spell will effect him... So.. would that be around a complexity 17 spell give or take in general, 6 to get past his Endurance fairly safely, and 3 comp each for the aspects? Would I need anything else, or does that sound about right? And a spell like this would probably fall under an Entropy Curse (Weapons-Grade) or along those lines at least, correct?
As far as I can tell you would have to beat his endurance for each individual aspect. This is mostly based on my understanding of the maneuver action when it's opposed and then how magic interacts with that, but then again that's based mostly on evocation as well, so there's no hard and fast answer.
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As far as I can tell you would have to beat his endurance for each individual aspect. This is mostly based on my understanding of the maneuver action when it's opposed and then how magic interacts with that, but then again that's based mostly on evocation as well, so there's no hard and fast answer.
I'm pretty sure since it would be the same spell, you only need to defeat his Endurance once, then the rest of the spell can just be placed normally. You COULD just make it a little easier on yourself though, and rather than cast a huge complexity spell, just divide it into a few smaller spells. But each of those would definitely require you to beat their endurance every time. You'd also probably need to up the duration a bit on the first few, cause it'll probably take a little while to get all those tags on...
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As far as I can tell you would have to beat his endurance for each individual aspect. This is mostly based on my understanding of the maneuver action when it's opposed and then how magic interacts with that, but then again that's based mostly on evocation as well, so there's no hard and fast answer.
I think you are mistaken on this. I'm pretty sure that the RAW specifically states that the chart is a good reference but until sunrise is a good default for these types of thaumaturgical evocations.
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As far as I can tell you would have to beat his endurance for each individual aspect. This is mostly based on my understanding of the maneuver action when it's opposed and then how magic interacts with that, but then again that's based mostly on evocation as well, so there's no hard and fast answer.
If applying aspects to an opponent via maneuver, you'll need to beat the resisting roll for each maneuver. That may not be endurance - a weakness spells might be opposed by Might, clumsiness by Athletics, etc.
If swinging blind, it's probably easier to apply aspects to the yourself, an ally, or the scene. But when you know an opponent well enough to target a weakness... ;D
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Hmm... well, that is very good to know, hehe... I want to say i heard somewhere on the forums a little while ago there was a limit, then I couldn't find it in the book...
In DFRPG, you cannot invoke the same Aspect more than once on an action (or is it more than once an exchange?), but you can invoke/tag as many different aspects as you have FP for / free tags.
Some FATE variants, like Diaspora, DO limit you to one character aspect/action, one environmental aspect/action, and so on.
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I think you are mistaken on this. I'm pretty sure that the RAW specifically states that the chart is a good reference but until sunrise is a good default for these types of thaumaturgical evocations.
Devonapple brought this up on another thread but it proves my point. YS265
In other words, if you want to
take advantage of two tags against a target of
Good Conviction, you’ll need to set up two
maneuvers, for a minimum complexity of 6 (3
for each, as per above).
And above YS264:
With a target, it varies,
because it’s a matter of beating whichever skill
the target would use to “defend” against the spell.
Technically, you can set a complexity of your
choosing, with the understanding that the target
is going to roll something to resist. So if the
target has Good (+3) Conviction, the minimum
complexity for the spell is 3—enough shifts to
successfully land a maneuver against a roll of +0
on the dice. If you want a sure thing, go for a
complexity of at least 8, which is one more than
the target would get with a max roll of +4.
The navel-gazing maneuvers would have a complexity set by the GM and would be that number per maneuver (or per taggable aspect).