What I would like is the crunch part of those buffs. Like the number of shifts used to create the spell.
I read though there before creating this thread, but thanks a ton for responding.
One thing I am going to end up answering is how can a buff/pot effect say melee as a skill. Say with lore 4 and a fate point can I create a pot that gives +4 melee for 2 exchanges or is it only aspects.
3 Shifts to place an aspect that lasts one exchange. 1 shift more for each exchange it lasts. My interpretation is that you can also spend 1 extra shift per time the aspect may be tagged for free during this period.
I was thinking of having my Son of Thor character (who uses magic unlike good ol' dad), to have a Lightning Form spell (at first from a magic item, since I can only afford Thaumaturgy to start with). It would place the "Lightning Form" aspect on him, which means he's faster and has electrical aspects (good and bad there). Could potentially be used to dodge, hit, give people a jolt of static electricity when shaking hands, and other things. He is starting with Lore 5, so I have two ways to work it. First is letting it last for 2 extra exchanges (3 to initiate, 2 for extra duration), or it lasts 1 extra exchange and has 1 extra free tag (3 to initiate, 1 for duration, 1 for the extra tag).
3 Shifts to place an aspect that lasts one exchange. 1 shift more for each exchange it lasts. My interpretation is that you can also spend 1 extra shift per time the aspect may be tagged for free during this period.
All of the examples were more specific than just a plus 4 to a skill, the awarness potion gave a plus +6 to alertness but only versus fae glamors with a lore of Fantastic, You could probably get a plus 4 to melle defense or melle attack but not both or only get a bonus against a specific enemy.
Thaumaturgy can:
ŠŠ Solve improbable or impossible problems
ŠŠ Create lasting changes in people and
things
ŠŠ Provide inaccessible knowledge
ŠŠ Allow interaction with the supernatural
ŠŠ Shape magical energies into physical
forms
Are you saying that your interpretation is to do a maneuver that places an aspect for 3 shifts, then add 2 shifts for each added duration and free tag?
So... a 5 shift maneuver would give you 2 free tags for 2 rounds?
True seeing ointment ys304 says: a tham effect granting +6 to alterness rolls to seerough faerie glamours,veils, and other illusions.
I assume given how it worked in the fiction an the raw that this pot adds to your skill not substituting in for it
You hate buffing, yet you created this thread. There must be a story behind this.
It really seems like most buffs are against the spirit of the rules.I wouldn't say they're against the spirit of the rules. However, most buffs can (and possibly should) be simulated by maneuver-created aspects. A "strength potion" (or other buff) might give the drinker Mighty Thews, Explosive Power, and Strength of Ten. That's anywhere from a +2 to +6 on any strength related activity. With a few refinements in crafting, your potion crafter will even be able to make it usable more often. You can do similar things with evocation maneuvers - though they'll cost a stress point. With appropriate aspects, you can do the same to any roll.
Strength of the Deep Earth seems a bit unfair. There was a discussion about such spells on this forum a while ago, and the consensus was that they should either be disallowed or heavily restricted.
It's legal by the RAW, as far as I can tell, but that doesn't mean that everyone will (or even should) allow it.
I wouldn't say they're against the spirit of the rules. However, most buffs can (and possibly should) be simulated by maneuver-created aspects. A "strength potion" (or other buff) might give the drinker Mighty Thews, Explosive Power, and Strength of Ten. That's anywhere from a +2 to +6 on any strength related activity. With a few refinements in crafting, your potion crafter will even be able to make it usable more often. You can do similar things with evocation maneuvers - though they'll cost a stress point. With appropriate aspects, you can do the same to any roll.
A traditional Thaumaturgic Ward requires a solid Threshold to which it can bond, and a walking, stretching, fighting human is pretty unstable as a magical platform, especially passing over all sorts of other thresholds, passing by any number of mystical resonances which would disrupt an unstable Ward.
So for these buffs, perhaps we rule that a caster can only pack so much magical defense on a moving item, and use their Lore to determine the upper bound of what they can do to their own bodies without seriously having to Transform themselves, like with enchanted items/potions?
You hate buffing, yet you created this thread. There must be a story behind this.
I think the cost on generating aspects is about right for general purposes. If you are making a magical item that gives you a couple aspects, then 3 shifts per non-sticky aspect you can tag once seems about right to me, give or take. Of course, that's not explicitly in the rules for thaumaturgy, it's borrowing something from evocation to get a minimum shift-cost for navel-gazing maneuvers for thaumaturgy.
Fear not: it already is in the Thaumaturgy rules, so it has RAW support:
YS 265: "If the intent is to create a temporary aspect that can be tagged more than once (remember that normally you’d only get the benefit of the tag once and have to invoke after that), simply chain two or more maneuvers together in the same spell, each inflicting the same aspect or a similar variant. In other words, if you want to take advantage of two tags against a target of Good Conviction, you’ll need to set up two maneuvers, for a minimum complexity of 6 (3 for each, as per above). As wizards are usually low on fate points, this option allows you a little more mileage without having to worry about impacting your fate point budget."
They actually don't talk, in thaumaturgy, about navel-gazing maneuvers. That section is explicitly talking about putting things on other people.
The thing is, with that example, someone not resisting the effect doesn't need to have their conviction overcome, they just let themselves get hit, so a 1 shift maneuver would work on them (potentially a 0-shift, but that's super-cheating). This may seem like a pedantic point to you, but it is the case the rules really don't go over this well...you have to sort of slap different parts of them together (it does fit together well enough).
But I got the impression early on that NGMs needed to at least be 3 shifts to succeed.
This shouldn’t really be an issue most of the time—an unopposed maneuver roll is pretty easy anyway, and keep in mind that another character in the scene might be in a position to “defend” against the maneuver attempt or take advantage of the aspect somehow.
That's true for Evocation NGMs (the only place where a particular price is stated).
To be superduperduper pedantic ::straightens tie:: the Evocation section doesn't mention NGMs by name, either - just Maneuvers. But that's merely academic - I think we're basically in accord! 8)
Another spell that she pulled off that I have no idea how she did it, was when she:(click to show/hide)
She did it at evocation speed for sure, but that would take a LOT of shifts to pull off.
I just remembered something Lea did in this about-to-be-spoiler-tagged scene:(click to show/hide)
So, did she use Evocation-fast Thaumaturgy to create temporary Enchanted Items for them?
Or did she use Evocation-fast Thaumaturgy to simply cast higher-powered Block-used-as-Armor spells that would last the whole battle?
Or did she just use Sponsored Magic to make an Evocation Block/Armor, but then gave it a Thaumaturgy-level duration?
It seems odd to handle biomancy with such a limited scope of mechanic. After all it says you can do other things, and players are going to want to do other things. I did not think it was outside of the rules to get refresh based powers, and other options. After playing with it I understand why refresh based powers are bad, but i think it would be a good idea to have more mechanical options outside of aspects.There are other options - I was just throwing out one easy example. A way for a wizard to easily help a friend if you will. Buff could also be described as blocks (mostly defensive buffs but others may fit) and full blown thaumaturgy can do almost anything.
Another spell that she pulled off that I have no idea how she did it, was when she: Turned Harry and Co. into hounds so that they could make it to the RCV on time.
She did it at evocation speed for sure, but that would take a LOT of shifts to pull off.