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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: BumblingBear on January 11, 2011, 01:34:22 AM
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As many times as I read about blocks in the book, I still can't totally wrap my mind around it.
Ok - say I make a 3 shift block but I add two shifts to it in order to have a 3 shift shield that lasts 3 actions.
Does that shield automatically count as my defense against all attacks until I reach my 4th action? Is that block in addition to a defense I may have... like a dodge?
So say I dodge a 4, does the 3 from the shield get added to it?
I'm assuming that I need to use an action in order to create a shield, right? So I can't create a shield as a free action for defense if someone attacks me... correct?
I'm sorry for all the questions - this aspect of magic just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
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My understanding is that you still roll your defense, then take the higher of that defense or the block.
So, say you have that strength-3 block for three turns. The first turn, you roll poorly on athletics to dodge the mad gunman who's shooting you and get a 1. That gunman's attacks are still against a defense of 3, for the block.
Next round, you roll well and get a 7. The gunman's attacks are vs. that 7.
make sense?
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Your Block must be overcome before you are actually 'attacked'. So a Block:3 completely negates attacks hitting with less than 3 shifts. As soon as your block is surpassed, the block is shattered / ended and you make your normal defense roll against the full power of the attack. It's all or nothing.
A block set up as armor does lessen the power of any attack it affects. So an Armor:3 block would drop that 4 shift attack to 1 shift. It also does not dissipate / shatter when a hit goes through it. Of course it is twice as expensive as a standard block... :)
It's worth noting blocks don't usually affect everything. The obvious example are Veils - they tend to block perception only.
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My understanding is that you still roll your defense, then take the higher of that defense or the block.
So, say you have that strength-3 block for three turns. The first turn, you roll poorly on athletics to dodge the mad gunman who's shooting you and get a 1. That gunman's attacks are still against a defense of 3, for the block.
Next round, you roll well and get a 7. The gunman's attacks are vs. that 7.
make sense?
Yeah that makes sense. So in order to block the first attack in an exchange, you basically have to roll initiative higher than everyone else, right? Either that or act before everyone else unholsters their guns...
I guess what I am getting at is that a magic shield cannot be created as a reactionary defense action, right?
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Your Block must be overcome before you are actually 'attacked'. So a Block:3 completely negates attacks hitting with less than 3 shifts. As soon as your block is surpassed, the block is shattered / ended and you make your normal defense roll against the full power of the attack. It's all or nothing.
A block set up as armor does lessen the power of any attack it affects. So an Armor:3 block would drop that 4 shift attack to 1 shift. It also does not dissipate / shatter when a hit goes through it. Of course it is twice as expensive as a standard block... :)
It's worth noting blocks don't usually affect everything. The obvious example are Veils - they tend to block perception only.
I suppose that makes sense... but what about a character who has inhuman toughness? Would the 1 armor from inhuman toughness (or worn armor) be added to the magical armor?
It seems that if that were the case, the magic armor would be pretty good.
That said, armor is not a shield or avoidance. Soooooo..... say I create an armor of 3 that will last 3 rounds. I'm assuming I am still dodging based on athletics and anything that gets through is absorbed by the armor, right?
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I guess what I am getting at is that a magic shield cannot be created as a reactionary defense action, right?
This tends to be GM-dependent. The book is vague enough to leave room for interpretation.
I suppose that makes sense... but what about a character who has inhuman toughness? Would the 1 armor from inhuman toughness (or worn armor) be added to the magical armor?
Per YS:202 neither armor nor weapon ratings stack.
It seems that if that were the case, the magic armor would be pretty good.
Yes, spellcasting is powerful. Evocation is limited by Conviction though...and actions / spells spent on defense aren't spent on offense. (One reason why I don't have a problems with using spells as a defense.)
That said, armor is not a shield or avoidance. Soooooo..... say I create an armor of 3 that will last 3 rounds. I'm assuming I am still dodging based on athletics and anything that gets through is absorbed by the armor, right?
Depends on the trappings. Armor created by an Air spell might deflect attacks so they miss, Water might absorb the attack, and an enchanted Jacket could also...which fits the situation and block used best?
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Depends on the trappings. Armor created by an Air spell might deflect attacks so they miss, Water might absorb the attack, and an enchanted Jacket could also...which fits the situation and block used best?
It seems based on the information I've gleaned in this thread so far that (upon GM's discretion) a character could create a magic shield as a reactionary, defensive action (which would be a good idea if they have a rubbish athletics skill) and then create magic armor too during their own turn.
This would effectively stop any attack that does not meet the shifts of the shield, but if it does, the character would roll athletics or some other kind of block (like with a weapon) to stop/evade the attack, and if it gets through, the magic armor would also take shifts off of the attack before actually chipping away stress, right?
That actually sounds pretty reasonable. It seems like a character who is madly trying to stay alive could layer the magical defenses in that way.
That said, magic armor is not all that great except for not weighing a character down and some evocation focuses (like spirit) are good at deflecting almost everything.
Using "Aftermath" as an example, Murphy has armor that I would rate a 3 against projectiles and a 3 against melee.
It seems that body armor would be just as good (if not better) than magic armor and is always in effect.
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It seems based on the information I've gleaned in this thread so far that (upon GM's discretion) a character could create a magic shield as a reactionary, defensive action (which would be a good idea if they have a rubbish athletics skill) and then create magic armor too during their own turn.
IIRC, it is clear that using Evocation to create a block (magic shield) requires the character to spend his action to do so. But it becomes less clear when it is an enchanted item that has uses of magic shielding, here is where people say GM discretion.
Should reactive shielding be allowed, (IMO) shifts would be best used to create as high a Block as possible, instead of Armor or for longer duration.
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IIRC, it is clear that using Evocation to create a block (magic shield) requires the character to spend his action to do so. But it becomes less clear when it is an enchanted item that has uses of magic shielding, here is where people say GM discretion.
Should reactive shielding be allowed, (IMO) shifts would be best used to create as high a Block as possible, instead of Armor or for longer duration.
Gotcha.
That is interesting. It seems that an evocator with a low conviction but extremely high discipline would be great for offensive, but not very good at defensive evocation.
It seems that whether it's controlled well or not, a large number of shifts of power are necessary for a good evocation shield.
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It seems based on the information I've gleaned in this thread so far that (upon GM's discretion) a character could create a magic shield as a reactionary, defensive action (which would be a good idea if they have a rubbish athletics skill) and then create magic armor too during their own turn.
The reactionary block is gone by the second action unless you have an extremely generous GM. (As a reaction I don't think most GMs would allow the caster to split power between blocking and extending the spell duration. Reactions are all about that immediate "Oh sh--!" moment.)
This would effectively stop any attack that does not meet the shifts of the shield, but if it does, the character would roll athletics or some other kind of block (like with a weapon) to stop/evade the attack, and if it gets through, the magic armor would also take shifts off of the attack before actually chipping away stress, right?
More correctly, a Block would stop any attacks not powerful enough to break through and Armor would lessen the power (take shifts off) of affected attacks.
That actually sounds pretty reasonable. It seems like a character who is madly trying to stay alive could layer the magical defenses in that way.
I could make a case for full defense being a better option. :) It doesn't cost you Mental stress and gives you a +2 for as long as you care to keep defending yourself. Better than a quick evocation Armor unless you're able to put a significant number of shifts into the effect.
That said, magic armor is not all that great except for not weighing a character down and some evocation focuses (like spirit) are good at deflecting almost everything.
Using "Aftermath" as an example, Murphy has armor that I would rate a 3 against projectiles and a 3 against melee.
It seems that body armor would be just as good (if not better) than magic armor and is always in effect.
I don't think most body armor will be any better than Armor:2 (enough to stop a pistol round) unless you're moving into bomb disposal suit territory.
For trappings, I recommend looking at some of the spells in the back of YS. Carlos Ramirez's Entropy Shield, Hyperawareness, and Riffilitum are all blocks (shield spells) with differing trappings.
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I could make a case for full defense being a better option. :) It doesn't cost you Mental stress and gives you a +2 for as long as you care to keep defending yourself.
Could you elaborate? I am not familiar with this.
I don't think most body armor will be any better than Armor:2 (enough to stop a pistol round) unless you're moving into bomb disposal suit territory.
The book says that a two handed melee weapon is a 3 rated weapon. Good chainmail (I'm assuming that Charity Carpenter's titanium chain is good quality) will stop two handed weapons.
Modern body armor can be level I - IV. Cops usually wear level III body armor. Soldiers wear level IIIA soft body armor (which will stop a .357 magnum round) and they have hard ceramic SAPI plates that are a level IV. A SAPI plate will stop several 7.62mm rifle rounds. I have friends who have been knocked on their butt by an AK round or two, but other than bruises they walked away from it.
Based on the attacks that Murphy has been able to/will be able to shrug off, this leads me to believe that she wears two layers of IIIa body armor (presumably bringing it up level IV armor) and she has maille sandwiched between them.
It's pretty potent stuff.
For trappings, I recommend looking at some of the spells in the back of YS. Carlos Ramirez's Entropy Shield, Hyperawareness, and Riffilitum are all blocks (shield spells) with differing trappings.
I will do just that. :)
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Could you elaborate? I am not familiar with this.
Full Defense is on YS:199. Basically you give up your action for a +2 to defense. Compared to casting a block where you use (give up) an action, take a point of mental stress, and have a (small) chance of failure...if you ignore the mental stress and failure chance, casting a block's break even point is when you put 4 shifts in it. But that mental stress is important! It could also be used for attacks, maneuvers, counterspelling, or veils. So my off the cuff rule of thumb is needing at least 7 shifts for break even...6 to get armor:3 and one to extend it an exchange. Even then you're using a precious mental stress point...
<comments on armor>
As with many things it's open to some interpretation. Going by YS:202, armor won't stack (but may cover broader attacks), lags behind weapons, and lists Armor:4 as beyond "...personal scale, except maybe in magical or supernatural context." So if the best personal armor (the bomb disposal suit) is 3 most good vests will be 2 and the cheap ones only 1. Murphy's stacking armor covers both firearms and melee attacks instead of making it stronger against either. The book doesn't draw a hard line though...I'm not trying to convince you so much as show you my reasoning.
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There are a couple stunts on the Homebrew Stunts Master List that let you create a block as a reaction to an attack. Look under Discipline for Reflexive Shield and Instinctive Defence. As with all homebrew, use them at your own risk. They haven't been playtested yet.
YS pg 202 says that a bulletproof vest is armour 1-2 and 3 is essentially the limit for personal scale mundane armour.
In my opinion, the best time to use an evocation block to protect yourself is right before you walk into something dangerous. Once the fight has started, offense will often be the best defence.
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Full Defense is on YS:199. Basically you give up your action for a +2 to defense. Compared to casting a block where you use (give up) an action, take a point of mental stress, and have a (small) chance of failure...if you ignore the mental stress and failure chance, casting a block's break even point is when you put 4 shifts in it. But that mental stress is important! It could also be used for attacks, maneuvers, counterspelling, or veils. So my off the cuff rule of thumb is needing at least 7 shifts for break even...6 to get armor:3 and one to extend it an exchange. Even then you're using a precious mental stress point...
Awesome - thanks for the page number. I am looking at it now. :)
As with many things it's open to some interpretation. Going by YS:202, armor won't stack (but may cover broader attacks), lags behind weapons, and lists Armor:4 as beyond "...personal scale, except maybe in magical or supernatural context." So if the best personal armor (the bomb disposal suit) is 3 most good vests will be 2 and the cheap ones only 1. Murphy's stacking armor covers both firearms and melee attacks instead of making it stronger against either. The book doesn't draw a hard line though...I'm not trying to convince you so much as show you my reasoning.
I understand. I get your reasoning - I just don't particularly agree with it. By my reasoning, if there is personal armor good enough to stop rifle rounds cold (which are considered a weapon 3 by YS), it makes sense that some personal armor should be able to be rated as a 3.
If I were a GM, I'd consider most high level modern body armor a 3 against guns, 1 against edged/blunt weapons, and 0 against arrows or spears (arrows will go right through most modern body armor).
I am not trying to change your mind either. One of the reasons the DFRPG system is so cool is that there is a lot of latitude for a GM to make house rules.
If someone like me who knows ridiculous amounts about weapons and armor, house rules about weapons and armor would be pretty specific.
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There are a couple stunts on the Homebrew Stunts Master List that let you create a block as a reaction to an attack. Look under Discipline for Reflexive Shield and Instinctive Defence. As with all homebrew, use them at your own risk. They haven't been playtested yet.
YS pg 202 says that a bulletproof vest is armour 1-2 and 3 is essentially the limit for personal scale mundane armour.
I could deal with that. 2 would probably be what most cops wear and 3 is what soldiers and mercenaries wear.
In my opinion, the best time to use an evocation block to protect yourself is right before you walk into something dangerous. Once the fight has started, offense will often be the best defence.
See, my problem with that is Harry uses his shield as a defensive action in the books. In fact, he has mentioned multiple times that as fast as an attacker is, his shield operates as fast as thought which is always faster.
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Blocks (and armor) generated by enchanted items
What makes defensive items a bit different is that you can use the defensive item to create a block (or armor) after you roll your defense. Also, since it's a non-action to use, you can use them to create defenses even when you are surprised, and have your defense reduced to 0 (plus the dice roll).
Example 1:
Harry is being shot at by goons. The goon rolls a 3 to hit. Harry rolls his athletics of 3 to dodge and gets (+, -, -, _) for a final result of 2. But since the goon is using an elephant gun (weapon: 4) Harry doesn't want to take the stress 5 hit. So he activates his magic duster (block 4) to completely defend against the goons attack.
Example 2:
Harry is walking around town, minding his own business when another goon takes a shot at him. The goon has the Lying in Wait aspect. The goon succeeds in surprising Harry, so Harry's defense is reduced to 0.
The goon rolls his attack 3 + (+, _, _, _) and tags Lying in Wait for a total of 6.
Harry rolls his defense 0 + (_, _, _, _) for a total of 0.
The goon is using a pistol (weapon: 2), so Harry would be looking at an 8 stress hit.
Harry uses his duster to generate a block 4, so reduces it to a stress 4 hit.
Note: Since the goons attack got though the magical block, it is broken so it no longer provides any protection to Harry. If, for example, there was a second goon who was also lying in wait, then Harry's defense would be back to 0 again. Of course, he could use his duster again to generate a second power 4 block, but it uses another charge.
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Stacking Enchanted Item defenses
There seems to be nothing stopping you from having 2 different defensive enchanted items, and using one to generate a block, and the other to generate armor both to apply to the same attack.
Example:
Steed has lent Harry his magical umbrella. This is normally a power 5 item, but since Steed didn't pay the extra points to allow it to be used by others, it acts as a power 4 item when Harry uses it.
Now, we'll flash back to the goon ambush from example 2, above.
Harry generates a block 4 with his duster, but he's still looking at a stress 4 hit. He then uses Steed's umbrella to generate armor 2, further reducing the attack to a stress 2 hit.
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Evocation Blocks and Duration
Evocation blocks normally last until the end of your next action. This means that you always have the chance to extend your block for more duration (Prolonging Spells, YS 259).
Blocks with more shifts put into duration are still broken as normal. So your long duration block can be brought down early by someone who rolls well.
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Reactive Evocation Blocks
The RAW (rules as written) don't seem to allow you to generate evocation blocks without spending an action. However, Harry seems to do just this several times in the novels. Most notably, he's able to generate blocks against things that are much faster than he is, and in game terms, would have initiative on him.
So, several GMs allow reactive block generation. Many choose to limit it in some way. Examples are:
have to use rote blocks
can't generate long duration blocks
can't generate blocks when surprised (i.e. when defense would be reduced to zero)
before the confrontation have to self apply an aspect, which can later be used to allow reactive block generation
etc.
Personally, I'm all for allowing reactive block generation. I think the real limit on spellcasting is mental stress, which you run out of soon enough.
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Modern Body armor
Modern body armor probably doesn't deserve a lower rating against melee attacks. Modern ballistic vests tend to also be highly stab resistant.
If allowing armor:3 mundane armor, don't allow such armor to be concealable. You can't really wear a class III or class IV vest under a coat and look normal. It's also reasonably heavy (20-30 pounds).
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Modern Body armor
Modern body armor probably doesn't deserve a lower rating against melee attacks. Modern ballistic vests tend to also be highly stab resistant.
If allowing armor:3 mundane armor, don't allow such armor to be concealable. You can't really wear a class III or class IV vest under a coat and look normal. It's also reasonably heavy (20-30 pounds).
I agree, with the exception that the coat or such over-wear isn't the body armor. If the coat has the armor integrated as part of it, then as long as the coat itself is heavy and bulky and is itself obvious, I allow the armor to be concealed.
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Example 1:
Harry is being shot at by goons. The goon rolls a 3 to hit. Harry rolls his athletics of 3 to dodge and gets (+, -, -, _) for a final result of 2. But since the goon is using an elephant gun (weapon: 4) Harry doesn't want to take the stress 5 hit. So he activates his magic duster (block 4) to completely defend against the goons attack.
Wouldn't he still take 1 stress in this situation?
So, several GMs allow reactive block generation. Many choose to limit it in some way. Examples are:
have to use rote blocks
can't generate long duration blocks
can't generate blocks when surprised (i.e. when defense would be reduced to zero)
before the confrontation have to self apply an aspect, which can later be used to allow reactive block generation
etc.
Personally, I'm all for allowing reactive block generation. I think the real limit on spellcasting is mental stress, which you run out of soon enough.
I think all of these rules would make sense. The one that makes most sense to me is allowing an evocation block and just having it end before the character's next turn. This would prevent the block from being extended and cause the character more mental stress.
I personally would use an aspect like (Ready for Trouble) to strengthen the block rather than allow it. Harry has blocked some really, really powerful attacks right before they landed in the books.
As you said, magic-y types cannot indefinitely sling around power without taking consequences. I think that reactive magic blocks would not break the game and would keep with the original flavor of the novel.
I guess my question here is what about reactive armor? Would it make sense for a character to try dodging an attack with athletics while simultaneously casting a rote armor, or would that be too powerful?
Last but not least
-An example question-
If I am reading your examples right, a character with a block magical item can use the block as armor rather than a standard evocation block, right?
So... say my character has decent armor on (armor 2) and a ring that functions as a block 3.
A hitman attacks with a dagger (weapon 2) and rolls a 6 to attack. My character rolls a 3 on athletics (doh!) to evade, and ends up facing a 5 stress hit.
What you're saying is that I could activate the shield ring to soak up 3 stress, and then the armor would soak up the last 2 stress leaving my character unharmed, right?
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I may need to revise earlier thought - per YS:210 (the example) you don't stack a block with your defense, you simply get the better of the two.
So... say my character has decent armor on (armor 2) and a ring that functions as a block 3.
A hitman attacks with a dagger (weapon 2) and rolls a 6 to attack. My character rolls a 3 on athletics (doh!) to evade, and ends up facing a 5 stress hit.
What you're saying is that I could activate the shield ring to soak up 3 stress, and then the armor would soak up the last 2 stress leaving my character unharmed, right?
Looks like you'd need to choose between using the Block and using Athletics. In your example both are 3 so it'd be a wash. But you'd take that 5 stress hit (reduced by armor) for a result of 3 stress.
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I may need to revise earlier thought - per YS:210 (the example) you don't stack a block with your defense, you simply get the better of the two. Looks like you'd need to choose between using the Block and using Athletics. In your example both are 3 so it'd be a wash. But you'd take that 5 stress hit (reduced by armor) for a result of 3 stress.
Ok that makes more sense.
So if my magic item was a block 4, but I rolled a 3 to evade, I could choose to use the item block before taking on stress to armor and stress boxes.
That way if you have a really low athletics (or whatever) roll to evade or block damage, you still have an option to fall back on.
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Wouldn't he still take 1 stress in this situation?
Note that the goon only has a total of 3 on his attack roll. Harry's athletics (dodge) total was only 2, but when he uses the duster to generate a block of 4, it's better than the goon's attack roll of 3, so the goon doesn't hit him at all; the damage generated by the gun the goon is using isn't added.
Remember that you only get the higher of your block or defense (usually athletics) roll.
Armor is only generally useful when you already have a 'good' defensive roll to help soak up the damage already.
Example:
You are a wizard with a power 4 defensive item and athletics of 4.
A ghoul attacks you and gets really lucky on his roll (total of 7). You roll athletics to dodge and get a total of 5. So you are still looking at a stress 6 hit (ghouls have claws and are inhumanly strong, meaning that they effectively have weapon: 4).
Using your defensive item to generate a power 4 block won't help, because your athletics total is already higher than the power 4 block your defensive item can generate. But you can use it to generate armor 2, which will reduce the hit to 4 stress.
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But even if you have a reasonably high normal defense, enchanted items are still useful if you ever get ambushed, since they can generate high defenses even when your normal defense would be reduced to zero.
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Using your defensive item to generate a power 4 block won't help, because your athletics total is already higher than the power 4 block your defensive item can generate. But you can use it to generate armor 2, which will reduce the hit to 4 stress.
I thought it was either/or. So a defense item can be used for a block or defense action just like evocation? If so, that is pretty spiffy.
I'm sorry for all the questions. It just seems like the book gave a lot of examples that were not applicable to my character build so it's a bit confusing.
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I understand. I get your reasoning - I just don't particularly agree with it. By my reasoning, if there is personal armor good enough to stop rifle rounds cold (which are considered a weapon 3 by YS), it makes sense that some personal armor should be able to be rated as a 3.
If I were a GM, I'd consider most high level modern body armor a 3 against guns, 1 against edged/blunt weapons, and 0 against arrows or spears (arrows will go right through most modern body armor).
I think I can see your issue with the armor and it's a little bit of a lack of understanding what stress is. YS201
The best way to look at stress is that it’s
the closest of close calls. That left hook might
not take your character out of the fight, but
his knees wobble a bit. Your character might
have parried that sword blow, but he’s losing
momentum and getting tired. That bullet might
not have hit your character, but he’s agitated, and
one of these times he just isn’t going to be able to
hit the deck quickly enough. This outlook can
help you represent stress in the face of different
sources of harm.
So really the whole concept is that the character is getting worn down. Even if you get "hit" by a bullet you aren't really getting hit because that would result in a consequence (A great example being the consequence "Holy #*&%, I've been shot!). You said there is "armor that stops rifle rounds cold" but does the round ting off of the armor, leaving the wearer standing completely untouched? No, he's going to get knocked down and probably have a good deal of bruising (I.E. a little stress), so really the armor is fairly realistic in that sense (even if the stress concept is a little unrealistic).
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I think I can see your issue with the armor and it's a little bit of a lack of understanding what stress is. YS201
So really the whole concept is that the character is getting worn down. Even if you get "hit" by a bullet you aren't really getting hit because that would result in a consequence (A great example being the consequence "Holy #*&%, I've been shot!). You said there is "armor that stops rifle rounds cold" but does the round ting off of the armor, leaving the wearer standing completely untouched? No, he's going to get knocked down and probably have a good deal of bruising (I.E. a little stress), so really the armor is fairly realistic in that sense (even if the stress concept is a little unrealistic).
Now that you put it that way, it does make sense.
I'm new to the FATE system and RPGs in general so I really appreciate you breaking it down crayon-style for me. It is helping a lot. :)
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That's a good example, crusher_bob, but I take issue with one of the minor details. You say that when Steed lends out his enchanted item umbrella its power is reduced by one. I don't think that that is reasonable, since it makes reducing the power of an item by one when making it in order to make it lendable completely pointless.
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That's a good example, crusher_bob, but I take issue with one of the minor details. You say that when Steed lends out his enchanted item umbrella its power is reduced by one. I don't think that that is reasonable, since it makes reducing the power of an item by one when making it in order to make it lendable completely pointless.
Doesn't it depend on how powerful the item is?
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I'm sorry; I don't understand. Doesn't what depend on how powerful the item is?
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I'm sorry; I don't understand. Doesn't what depend on how powerful the item is?
Whether you can loan it out to people. I thought there was a cap. Forgive my ignorance on this - I've read the book but I still have gaping holes in my understanding.
Also, can someone verify for me that a block item of power 4 can be used as an armor item of power 2 instead depending on circumstances?
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I don't think there's a cap. As I understand it, an enchanted item can be designed so that it can be leant out by reducing its power by one.
I think you mean enchanted item when you say Item Of Power.
And whether or not you can use defensive items freely as either blocks or armour is a bit unclear, although I'd say no. The confusion probably stems from page 303 of YS where Harry's duster is described as either block 4 or armour 2. It isn't clear whether it can do both at different times.
Deadmanwalking and I have probably made this worse by giving wizards items described as being either blocks or armour. I meant it as "pick one or the other and stick with it", he may have meant otherwise.
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I don't think there's a cap. As I understand it, an enchanted item can be designed so that it can be leant out by reducing its power by one.
I think you mean enchanted item when you say Item Of Power.
And whether or not you can use defensive items freely as either blocks or armour is a bit unclear, although I'd say no. The confusion probably stems from page 303 of YS where Harry's duster is described as either block 4 or armour 2. It isn't clear whether it can do both at different times.
Deadmanwalking and I have probably made this worse by giving wizards items described as being either blocks or armour. I meant it as "pick one or the other and stick with it", he may have meant otherwise.
Gotcha. It seems though that for my build, an item that blocks is more useful.
Thanks for all the info from everyone. I think I've almost /finally/ got my character finalized. Casters take a lot of work!
I'm kind of glad, though because it has forced me to really get into the guts of the RAW.
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Example 2:
Harry is walking around town, minding his own business when another goon takes a shot at him. The goon has the Lying in Wait aspect. The goon succeeds in surprising Harry, so Harry's defense is reduced to 0.
The goon rolls his attack 3 + (+, _, _, _) and tags Lying in Wait for a total of 6.
Harry rolls his defense 0 + (_, _, _, _) for a total of 0.
The goon is using a pistol (weapon: 2), so Harry would be looking at an 8 stress hit.
Harry uses his duster to generate a block 4, so reduces it to a stress 4 hit.
Note: Since the goons attack got though the magical block, it is broken so it no longer provides any protection to Harry.
Interesting thought; would a similar scenario sum up the shooting in "The Warrior" (with maybe Harry also using aspects like "Smoke from the Beetle" and/or the manuever "Running like hell" to try to further dodge/block) in game terms? Would make sense, and gives a good example of describing a broken block from an item besides it physically breaking (i.e. Harry's damage was from "falling down the steps" rather than "shot through the coat").
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I think I can see your issue with the armor and it's a little bit of a lack of understanding what stress is. YS201
So really the whole concept is that the character is getting worn down. Even if you get "hit" by a bullet you aren't really getting hit because that would result in a consequence (A great example being the consequence "Holy #*&%, I've been shot!). You said there is "armor that stops rifle rounds cold" but does the round ting off of the armor, leaving the wearer standing completely untouched? No, he's going to get knocked down and probably have a good deal of bruising (I.E. a little stress), so really the armor is fairly realistic in that sense (even if the stress concept is a little unrealistic).
Plus, a vest doesn't cover the head and limbs. The rating is an abstraction. Stress is an abstraction. I think it's not very useful to try to equate the rating of armor with stopping power in the real world.
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Plus, a vest doesn't cover the head and limbs. The rating is an abstraction. Stress is an abstraction. I think it's not very useful to try to equate the rating of armor with stopping power in the real world.
This is true. I still think that heavy, bulky, military grade body armor should be a level 3 - same with a full coat of plate vs melee attacks.
The tradeoff is that there is no possible way to say... go to the mall wearing either one of them without drawing attention.