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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Smith on December 29, 2010, 04:15:39 PM
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As stated in the book, Conjuring kinda sucks. Yeah, you can get that sword, but it takes so long to whip up the spell, only to have the sword last for so long. It doesn't make much sense, when you can just go out and get that sword (or other item) cheaper and easier the old fashioned way.
So here's my idea.
The wizard creates in a safe place (home, laboratory, trunk of his car, etc.) a summoning circle (like the one in Harry's basement), this space is specifically set aside for one purpose... holding an item for later use. The circle is then linked through a lengthy thaumaturgical casting to a glove, which contains the spell. When activated, the glove summons whatever is in the circle to the open (gloved) hand of the wizard.
I could see this being extremely handy as it's not always convenient to carry around your Wizard's Staff, loaded gun, sword or what-have-you.
The way I'm thinking this would be accomplished is the glove acts as a once per session use Enchanted Item. The player would have to specify what item was in the prepared space, upon activation of the glove's enchantment, the prepared item is sent into the Nevernever to be pulled out again by the glove.
Any thoughts?
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The one thought I have is that you might want a Demesne for that. If it's flying though random spaces in the Nevernever then a lot of interesting things could happen to it. For example it could come out molten hot, or covered in acid or pull something terrible through with it. Having a Demesne that is linked to you and the circle would solve that.
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I'd actually like to drop the Nevernever aspect of the spell. Just have it so the glove calls the item from the prepared space, but I thought some people might require that kind of distinction.
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There are suggestions on how to handle Teleportation in the Thaumaturgy section, near Worldwalking. Distance/zone-crossing seems to be the primary concerns in DFRPG, and they suggest that teleportation be pretty difficult for anything other than short distances of a few zones. You may be looking at an incredibly complex spell if you want global availability.
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Well, I'm not thinking Global Availability, more like... city wide. I notice one of the big concerns with out-and-out teleportation is the character covering X number of zones and overcoming Y number of Borders and the effects they will have on the caster. I'm thinking this could work with a number of stipulations applied to it, such as "Not across a Threshold" and "Inanimate Objects Only". I'm also thinking that the prepared space and the glove need to share a rather substantial thaumaturgical link, like "The gloves rivets are forged from the same metal that makes up the circle" or some-such.
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Seems like one way to do teleportation in the dresdenverse is by transforming the target into something that travels faster and is impeded less (I.E. tiny particles on the wind, electricity, radiation, etc) then drawing it where you want it and transforming it back. This would be incredibly complex of course but I would think that you could do most of the work in advance and then essentially use the glove to trigger it.
Of course per usual I'm thinking thematically and not mechanically. Mechanically I'd say that regardless of how you do it you're "Solving an improbable or impossible problem," so I would figure out what the dificulty of a resource roll to have said Item would be, and if it's less then your lore then there's no problem with you making a enchanted item that summons said item.
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I don't think you need a fancy teleportation-based explanation for an item like that. Just stick a conjuration effect in an enchanted item and be done with it.
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Of course per usual I'm thinking thematically and not mechanically. Mechanically I'd say that regardless of how you do it you're "Solving an improbable or impossible problem," so I would figure out what the dificulty of a resource roll to have said Item would be, and if it's less then your lore then there's no problem with you making a enchanted item that summons said item.
Exactly. Imagine that you are trying to get a courier to bring it to you. Factor in the Resources check to get a courier (higher for larger items, presumably: a messenger bike to carry a dagger is cheaper than a moving crew to grab a piano) and then determine how long in the Time Scale it would take for said courier to leave your side, head to your Summoning Circle, pick up and then bring back that item. Then add Complexity to bring that time down to 1 exchange or so.
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... than a moving crew to grab a piano...
Does this mean I can legitimately summon a piano for a spontaneous (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpontaneousChoreography) music number (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CrowdSong)? And does it have to materialize in front of me, or can I have it appear around the second or third floors (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PianoDrop)?
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Does this mean I can legitimately summon a piano for a spontaneous (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpontaneousChoreography) music number (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CrowdSong)? And does it have to materialize in front of me, or can I have it appear around the second or third floors (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PianoDrop)?
Brilliant! I'm hesitant to respond with guidelines about doing such a thing in DFRPG, lest it was meant wholly in jest.
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It was meant in jest, but if you have ideas, go ahead! :D
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It was meant in jest, but if you have ideas, go ahead! :D
Well, the first one could just be a simple Conjuring from the Nevernever: ballpark would be about 12 shifts, maybe more due to the complexity. Unless you wanted a *particular* unique piano from someplace in the real world (like Roger's Piano from the bar down the street): that would be 20 or so, depending on distance.
The second one would simply be a Weapon:X effect and/or Maneuver to placed the "Pinned Under a Piano" Aspect on the target.
But we are skirting into off-topic territory.
You'd think it would be easier to summon a complex item from somewhere else rather than just craft it out of Ectoplasm, but the DFRPG setting seems to make teleport effects prohibitive to cast, and makes shaping ectoplasm a lot simpler than some might make it.
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the "Pinned Under a Piano" Aspect on the target.
Amend that; it should be "A-Flat Enemy" ;D
But we are skirting into off-topic territory.
True. Sorry.
I have one point on shaping Ectoplasm. As the book points out in the conjuration section, unless you're very good and accept a high complexity, the item in question is not going to look quite right and probably won't work. So, going off of the piano example, it probably would be easier just to summon a piano than it would be to try an conjure a working instrument. Now, while that's an extreme example, given how complex pianos are, the point is, sooner or later, for just about all mundane conjurations, there comes a trade-off point, where it is easier to summon than it is to conjure.
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Been talking with my GM and we've agreed that the spell would have to turn the "summoned item" into another form (I've chosen Magnetic Force) in order to get it from the prepared space to the glove. How this will be explained thaumaturgically is... the circle for this spell would be made of rare-earth magnets... the glove would contain a smaller circle of the same magnets (procured from the exact same source). The item in the circle, when called, would be turned into pure magnetism and go rushing towards the glove, using the mystic link between the magnets to overpower any outside influence (i.e. getting stuck on someones refrigerator next to the preschooler's drawings).
We've also decided that it wouldn't work over a threshold that the wizard wasn't invited through and would also have a distance of maybe a few city-blocks, as such, we'll probably go with the "Car Trunk" option.
Thought you guys might like an update. When I have mechanics written down for it, I'll be sure to post those as well.
As always, feel free to leave comments, concerns and (especially) cash prizes. ^_^
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Thought you guys might like an update. When I have mechanics written down for it, I'll be sure to post those as well.
As always, feel free to leave comments, concerns and (especially) cash prizes. ^_^
Yes, please! Let us know how it turns out in your game.
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The item in the circle, when called, would be turned into pure magnetism and go rushing towards the glove, using the mystic link between the magnets to overpower any outside influence (i.e. getting stuck on someones refrigerator next to the preschooler's drawings).
HA! Now I'm having visions of a trail of metallic objects plastered against odd random surfaces. Sounds like fun.
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I'm just too tired to read any replies to the initial post right now but all the same, in my group something similar has come up. I have a player who has channeling (evocation later in the game as her character grows) and would like to eventually have a sword of pure... something. Light, I think? Sounds dumb but then think of light sabers and it becomes a bit more sexy. Anyway, I've already told her I'd make it have to be a VERY complex spell that, to hold together a construct of that sort mentally while fighting with it and blocking attacks with it (so it being wailed upon) and it hurting others but not her... yeah, not likely to ever happen with just pure evocation. Not realistically.
However, if she wanted to put together an enchanted item once she gets thaumaturgy/evocation then that would be different. I'm thinking a sword hilt or something that she would hold and then it would be something like at the cost of a fate point she could summon it once per scene or something. It's a little while down the road so I have time to hammer out the details but still. It should definitely be something that COSTS to use and have little going for it that a regular sword doesn't. Main thing would be that you could bring it past security unnoticed or walk around town with it (usually, at least).
While the lightsaber example is one thing (I would probably never allow it to cut through anything without pumping stupid amounts of end game power into it - instead having it act like a normal sword), this can be done with any element. Fire, treating the burn damage as a weapon:2 or 3 to stand in place of the sword's normal damage. Blocking would work more or less like normal, just say that instead of actually blocking/parrying with your flame sword you just make the opponent worry about getting burned... a lot...
Water could form ice from the air and if you want you can fudge the physics here or you can have it draw the water from the air in the zone thus placing the aspect "Arid" on the zone and giving everyone 1 free tag or no free tags. This would last for a couple rounds as the surrounding air compensated for this.
Earth would probably just be holding the hilt to the ground (with the part where the blade should be actually flat on the ground) and when you withdraw it you draw out the earth from right there leaving a very thin but deep hole.
Air and Spirit/Force would be similar with air being really compressed air, binding it in with your will as more of a baton than a sword.
Either way, these could vary a bit but all come down to the same basic thing where it's a weapon 2-3 that can be used once per scene or so at the cost of a fate point.
I would never allow the conjuring of a gun or any sort of more complex weapon. I mean hell, you can HEX a gun. You expect that to be formed of ectoplasm, let alone any other material? Not likely...
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It should definitely be something that COSTS to use and have little going for it that a regular sword doesn't. Main thing would be that you could bring it past security unnoticed or walk around town with it (usually, at least).
This is an attitude that bothers me. Why should it cost anything? If it's a normal sword in all respects but disguise then we could compare it to a cane sword. Mechanically they are the same thing and the cane sword costs nothing but maybe a resouces roll or a character justification so why should the light sword cost anything? For that matter it's costing the caster a enchanted item slot already. If it costs more than the cane sword then the players are going to decide that the cane sword is easier and then you've lost a cool touch that would add to the flavor of the game for no good reason.
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This is an attitude that bothers me. Why should it cost anything? If it's a normal sword in all respects but disguise then we could compare it to a cane sword. Mechanically they are the same thing and the cane sword costs nothing but maybe a resouces roll or a character justification so why should the light sword cost anything? For that matter it's costing the caster a enchanted item slot already. If it costs more than the cane sword then the players are going to decide that the cane sword is easier and then you've lost a cool touch that would add to the flavor of the game for no good reason.
Because the books lead us to believe that this sort of thing is hard. They also lend toward the idea that using magic to emulate something else has few benefits. Most of the time it's something that could just as easily have been done another way, without magic, but the magic provides a sort of convenience.
Take Harry's tracking spell vs Murphy just actually investigating. Most of the time, IF Harry has something of whatever he's tracking, he can get something - though never exact and often it's a bit of a pain leading him in straight lines with complete disregard for landscaping and the like while only tracking in 2 dimensions so if it's above or below, he's mostly sunk. This MIGHT save Harry time but then he might not have anything of what he's trying to track or it may be pointing to a spot in a skyscraper with a hefty basement (possibly Undertown) and thus leave him searching 30+ floors while people are wondering, "What are you doing in my building?"
Murphy on the other hand doing investigation might ask the right someone the right questions in the first 5 minutes or find a notepad with directions scribbled onto it or something like that and be done long before Dresden, if Dresden can even cast the spell, or she might really have nothing to go off of.
Magic to emulate something else, such as skills, powers or items, don't necessarily do anything that emulated thing can't and, in fact, usually will just be another way to do the same thing. Creating an item, continuing with the sword analogy, out of pure anything, be it light, ice, ectoplasm, force, fire, or anything else would be somewhat difficult in and of itself. Holding it together through a fight would be even harder. You would almost certainly need a hilt to hold, whether as a foci for control or as an enchanted item specifically for this task. It seems to me that an enchanted item, while less universally useful, would be considerably more useful for this specific task, seeing as that's their purpose.
Bare in mind that yes, having it be MORE than just a sword is certainly something that you could do - later. Also bare in mind that Dresden is a 10 refresh character in Storm Front and by now... Well... Not to give spoilers I'm just going to say it's safe to say that by 12 books and a lot of short stories in he's probably around 20 refresh. Further, all he is really, is a wizard. He's not crossing templates with shapeshifter or taking an assload of stunts or finding faith, etc. So that's 20 refresh of I-Am-Wizard working complex magics in CREATIVE WAYS. With him even pointing out that it's not necessarily purely about power but creativity. He might have a spell or enchanted item meant to do one thing but, by being the bloody genius that he is, he can use it creatively to achieve a slightly different result.
Given that, sure a 15-20 refresh character wanting to give the sword extra abilities in the form of pure weapon skill, sure. Take refinement and pump in extra item slots. But bare in mind, Weapon:4+ is on par with grenades, RPGs, and other heavy battlefield weaponry. Every single point in this game is hefty. so going from weapon 3 to weapon 4 is substantial. That means that if you get so much as 1 shift of success, you've taken out any goons without toughness or hulking size.
Now, if they wanted to leave it as just a sword, casting a spell off the sword through evocation mid-battle in some creative manner or even pumping item slots in to allow it to do this standard or something, then I could see it as being able to do something that a sword couldn't that would certainly be cool. Let's say it's the light sword where it's pretty much focused light, right? Ignoring physics for the most part here for the sake of awesome, let's say the battle isn't going well and no super awesome sword is about to let our heroes win. They need to run. They see that. Our hero of light might be able to get away without a problem but his friends (maybe one is injured) are likely to be taken out before they get a chance to offer their concession due to initiative passes not being in their favor. Maybe the hero will, instead of conceding right away, instead cast a spell to release his sword destructively (the makeshift manner might have fallout which could damage the hilt, thus giving the hero reason to repair it with this new use in mind). Mechanically it would be an evocation spell against the previous spell holding the sword together. Say the sword's been in use for a bit, you might be able to make declarations to give you bonuses on the roll. Now if you succeed (and I would say that any fallout, predetermined as going to the hilt, would be as if you took it as backlash and thus allow the spell to succeed, just this once) then take a free action to yell a warning to your party before the held light in the blade of the sword bursts forth blinding everyone who wasn't covering their eyes. This might be an attack or more likely a simple maneuver granting the aspect "Blinded" which, when those baddies try and hurt your friends before they can run, you pass tags and make them more likely to live. Your creative use of your enchanted weapon (that is currently really nothing more than a sword mechanically) just saved the party.
Past that, if you're really needing it to be more useful, say it acts as a really good flashlight.