ParanetOnline
The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Tbora on December 12, 2010, 08:56:11 PM
-
Okay so I had this idea, basically a container for magic which you can fill with a set number of shifts that can be used for casting magic, this item would be created with thaumaturgy.
The benefits of it is that with it you can cast evocations with it by taking from its "mana pool" (borrowing the term from an infinite number of other games) instead of paying mental stress by essentially paying them forward ahead of time via the ritual to do gather them.However it can also be used to meet the power requirements of a thaumaturgy as well, again sapping it like a battery.
How would I do this in game, and how would you model it to keep it balanced mechanically?
I was thinking 5 shifts to make the battery in the first place, plus 1 shift of power for every 5 shifts put into the battery.
As an example, for having a battery worth say 10 shifts for a spell, you have a 17 complexity/power thaumaturgy for it. However the 5 shifts for creation is a one time payment and so long as you use the same one, you don't have to pay that again, just pay the power you put into it plus the addition shift of power/complexity got every 5 shifts added.
What do you think?
-
I think we already have things like that.
They are called Enchanted Items.
Basically they store magical energies to be released later, without stress. This stresslessness (yes, this is a word) is paid for in reduced flexibility.
Theres even a somewhat more flexible version around: Potions
Making the potion is your battery ritual, activating the potion is you sapping the battery.
I would not allow generic power-batteries... stress for casting is important to balance spellcasters who can already be insanely powerful.
-
I agree with tsunami
The stress of working magic is part of the setting
-
You would still have to roll for control to make the power do your bidding, and I think its not really setting breaking as we have seen similar items items in the dresdenverse though not such.
Namely the Shroud of Turin. That thing was used to power a plague curse, which was according to Harry something that took /major power/ to run. You might argue that enchanted item/plot device but I disagree, one it would limit it to a specific effect and I doubt that the Plague Curse is the only thing it can cause, and anything done in the books can be done in the games imo. I believe my magic batteries are perfectly balanced as you are paying 17 shifts for 10 generic ones, that is far more then the standard -2 fee which is common for extra effects on attacks, making aspects sticky, making stuff zone wide, etc.
Holding your objection to game-breakyness, how would you manage it mechanically or how would you change adapt mine?
-
The closest we've seen to it is Harry's bear-belt from Blood Rites. Basically, it was an enchanted item or potion that gave a sticky aspect of 'Awash with Energy' or somesuch.
And Tbora, it IS game-breaking. You take the one limit on using magic constantly, stress, and try to get around it by paying the stress when you don't need it. With a power-gaming ritual, you could make a couple-dozen use battery the way you are using it.
The Shroud of Turin isn't a battery so much as a source of power like a ley-line. To recreate it, it would take centuries of people putting their faith into that object, and possibly the blood of the son of god. So yes, it is plot-device. You can't make one on your own, that is for sure.
Finally, it still takes effort to channel said magic, so it wouldn't prevent stress. It would be more like a free Conviction roll, so you don't have to worry about controlling it, just directing.
-
Yeah, everything said here I'm going to agree with. No one's going to stop you from running these in your games, I suppose but I would never allow anyone to use them in any of my games. As is, starting off the game around 10 refresh or so, everything you can make is, for the most part, pretty balanced. There really isn't much in the lines of power gaming. Well, as the game progresses to higher refresh values from hitting major milestones, wizards slowly inch ahead. Sure, it takes a decent while but it's a class that can literally do ANYTHING. One of the few restriction on them is the stress of casting continually.
Past that, who cares about 17 shifts to create a battery? You can mitigate most/all of those shifts to receive no stress/consequences via good thaumaturgy. Past that, this would be like the creation of any other enchanted item type of thing where it would most likely not be taking place during game but over a period of time "off-screen." As such, any stress that would still be induced by the making of the item is nullified. Hence it simply not being balanced. Sure, they would need to take up an item slot - probably multiple for a single battery depending on the number of shifts - but it's still just an item slot for what would have been situationally excellent benefits, but is instead entirely generally excellent benefits.
To summarize: Entirely unbalanced. Stick to potions.
-
I don't mind the idea of someone creating items with the "magically charged" aspect using thaumaturgy. Given that each aspect only gets 1 free tag, it shouldn't be unbalancing, and could be flavorful. Just remember that "magically charged" can be compelled to do things like cause extra fallout, explode, shine brightly to the Sight of some supernatural creatures, etc.
-
I'd also argue that the frickin' SHROUD OF TURIN is kind of plotty-devicey...
-
Yet if a player manages to get the item for whatever reason, he should be able to use it just as easily as NPCs do imo.
-
I don't think that that's a very good argument. Just because it can happen in the setting (or in the books that the setting is based on) doesn't mean that the players should be able to do it. These things are called plot devices because the rules don't cover them.
If you want magical batteries of this sort, you'll have to houserule extensively. The game stops making sense once you start thinking about really big rituals, and houserules are quite appropriate if you intend to let players go past 30ish complexity.
Anyway, I don't think that the RAW contains any way for your idea to be balanced.
-
The closest thing we have is the Stimulant potion on YS304. It gives you a one-stress discount on evocation while under the effects (one scene!) and allows you to ignore some consequences of mental fatigue. This does accomplish something like an energy boost, so an enchanted item with this effect stored in it would be fairly battery-like.
-
Yeah, I agree with the naysayers here. This seems too much of a gimmickey open power item. I understand what you were trying to do by skirting the rules on enchanted items and spell casting stress, but this goes a bit to far for the game. In the Spirit of the Century SRD there is a stunt Universal Gadget http://crackmonkey.org/~nick/loyhargil/fate3/fate3.html#universal-gadgets (http://crackmonkey.org/~nick/loyhargil/fate3/fate3.html#universal-gadgets) that allows the player to have an undeclared gadget at the start of the game. At any point in the game the player can declare that the gadget is.
What you would need to do though is spend refresh on the Universal Gadget. the only way I can see it is to have an enchanted item be able to cast any spell one (or more) time(s) per exchange/session per refresh spent on it. You could claim the spell was stored previously and is only now revealed. Not what you are looking for, but more in line with the game.
-
I don't mind the idea of someone creating items with the "magically charged" aspect using thaumaturgy. Given that each aspect only gets 1 free tag, it shouldn't be unbalancing, and could be flavorful. Just remember that "magically charged" can be compelled to do things like cause extra fallout, explode, shine brightly to the Sight of some supernatural creatures, etc.
I agree with this. Only thing is, an Aspect will help you with a roll, but it doesn't increase your Conviction and thus does nothing to increase the effective amount of power you can summon, just the control you have.
-
A sort of Aspect-analogue that can be tagged for +2 power seems reasonable to me, although that isn't what I think Tbora is looking for.
-
A sort of Aspect-analogue that can be tagged for +2 power seems reasonable to me, although that isn't what I think Tbora is looking for.
I am looking for a way to store shifts of power, as I think it would be a great way to have a Thaumaturgist that is capable during a fight and not just useful out of one. I can see a particularly clever one coming up with something like this, and using it during the Climax of a fight or some such against the Big Bad.
-
Perhaps a twist on Sponsored Magic would work best?
-
I am looking for a way to store shifts of power, as I think it would be a great way to have a Thaumaturgist that is capable during a fight and not just useful out of one. I can see a particularly clever one coming up with something like this, and using it during the Climax of a fight or some such against the Big Bad.
Yeah, seems to me this is what they did with enchanted items.
-
Here's an idea: have an Enchanted Item that creates a persistent effect that does nothing aside from staying there for a few rounds, then harness it a la Redirecting Spell Energy when you need it. Probably be a maneuver with Ambient Magic on the scene, then grab that as needed, though the risk is that someone might grab it from you.
-
The book already has a great mechanism for that: enchanted items and potions.
And the reason "free" shifts don't work is that you don't get something for nothing. The idea is game breaking. Lets say i rely on some items for offense and defense, leaving mental stress track free, so at the end of every scene, i dump all into this "item". So what about every scene not described. Assuming each scene is 15 minutes, thats 96 shifts per day. Minus what you spend. Game Breaking. That is over 100 shifts per scene that you *could* throw around every day. After a week of not doing anything, you could get nearly 1000. As a GM, no effing way. not unless every baddy could to. And with them sacrificing people, 10,000 per week easy. Nuke. 50 shifts to a small city for an hour... Can your wizard survive that???
-
Here's an idea: have an Enchanted Item that creates a persistent effect that does nothing aside from staying there for a few rounds, then harness it a la Redirecting Spell Energy when you need it. Probably be a maneuver with Ambient Magic on the scene, then grab that as needed, though the risk is that someone might grab it from you.
Hey now, that's very creative! I like that, and I think it works with the mechanics of the game. I probably would go with a Navel Gazing Maneuver to apply the Charged With Energy Aspect to yourself.
-
Hey now, that's very creative! I like that, and I think it works with the mechanics of the game. I probably would go with a Navel Gazing Maneuver to apply the Charged With Energy Aspect to yourself.
And you could stack it with multiple copies of the same Aspect, so it could be tagged for free multiple times.
-
And you could stack it with multiple copies of the same Aspect, so it could be tagged for free multiple times.
Can you do that with one item?
-
Can you do that with one item?
You can with a Ritual, according to the rules, but it increases the Complexity, so an Item may be too limited by the creator's Lore skill to allow it.
-
And you could stack it with multiple copies of the same Aspect, so it could be tagged for free multiple times.
That's true, but the effect the original poster was trying to achieve was to have shifts of power ready at his command, not to have an Aspect to tag. Basically he'd have the Charged With Power spell up and just redirect it with Evocation as needed without having to endure the stress of casting a new spell, as well as having however many shifts in the spell to redirect.
-
That's true, but the effect the original poster was trying to achieve was to have shifts of power ready at his command, not to have an Aspect to tag. Basically he'd have the Charged With Power spell up and just redirect it with Evocation as needed without having to endure the stress of casting a new spell, as well as having however many shifts in the spell to redirect.
Ah, got it. There was a shift of terminology and I got lost. Sorry.
-
The reason why I talked about a Maneuver was because this seemed like an Evocation effect and Evocation lists four things you can do with it: Attack, Block, Maneuver, or Counterspell, and it didn't seem to fit the other three.