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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: bibliophile20 on December 08, 2010, 03:19:44 AM

Title: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: bibliophile20 on December 08, 2010, 03:19:44 AM
I've been watching the Resource threads grow, and it's getting a bit hard to find what you're looking for in there.  So, maybe I'm prejudiced because of how useful a wiki has been for my own DFRPG game, but I've been mulling over the idea of creating a wiki specifically for holding all of this tremendously useful material that being produced on this forum, starting with the Spells, Aspects, Generic NPCs and so forth, as well as the examples, spare character concepts and such.  

So, first, would such a wiki be legal, if it were associated with the board, and only contained the information for the purposes of collation and organization?  

And, second, the poll question, do people think it's a good idea?  Will it be used?  Will it be well integrated into the forum?  And so forth.

Thank you!

EDIT:
And Third, do it on Wikispaces, Wikia or someplace else?  Each one has it's own pros and cons.
Title: Re: DFRGP Resource Wiki
Post by: Tbora on December 08, 2010, 03:26:04 AM
Creative Commons License covers you as far as legality, and what that does not cover, Fair Use of Copyright Law does.

And yes its a good idea.
Title: Re: DFRGP Resource Wiki
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 08, 2010, 03:31:58 AM
I agree with everything that Tbora just said.
Title: Re: DFRGP Resource Wiki
Post by: Quazar on December 08, 2010, 03:45:14 AM
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it would fit under the "Attribution Non-Commercial" license that Dresden Files Fan-Fiction is under.  We should definitely get something like that going.
Title: Re: DFRGP Resource Wiki
Post by: Blackblade on December 08, 2010, 04:04:48 AM
Definitely.  One of these would by quite helpful. 

In regards to the platform, I would prefer Wikia, though it doesn't really matter.
Title: Re: DFRGP Resource Wiki
Post by: Wilder on December 08, 2010, 09:12:48 AM
While I think legally there is nothing against it, might I suggest sending an email or request to EvilHat as to their preferences. Becasue while I agree it could be very useful and I for one would use the heck out of it, getting their blessing on it in the first place could remove potential issues before they begin.
Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: Arcteryx on December 08, 2010, 03:17:55 PM
I like Wikia too. And I agree with the garnering of support from the powers that be before starting.
Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 11, 2010, 11:01:23 PM
So, it looks like this idea is pretty solidly supported. Who's going to send the message to Evil Hat? I can do it if no-one else wants to.
Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: bibliophile20 on December 11, 2010, 11:35:00 PM
Go for it.  If you want to throw it in the message, I checked, and DFRPGResources.wikia.com is available.
Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: Quazar on December 11, 2010, 11:37:09 PM
Go for it.  If you want to throw it in the message, I checked, and DFRPGResources.wikia.com is available.

Better just to go with DFRPG.wikia.com right?
Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 12, 2010, 04:25:30 AM
Message sent. Didn't mention the url in it.
Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: Drashna on December 12, 2010, 08:43:04 AM
Well, there is also the option of using a "bridge" for SMF, to use the users from the forums to log into a wiki set up on this domain.  Personally, I like that better than using another hosting site entirely. But that's personal preference.

Did find this, right away: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SMF_Auth_Integration
Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 14, 2010, 10:34:20 PM
Got a response from Evil Hat. Apparently there are already two such wikis, but neither contains much content. We're welcome to add to those or to make our own.

So, do you guys want to use one of these sites?

http://dresdenfilesrpg.wikidot.com/ (http://dresdenfilesrpg.wikidot.com/)
http://dresdenverse.wikidot.com/ (http://dresdenverse.wikidot.com/)
Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: Quazar on December 14, 2010, 10:38:26 PM
Got a response from Evil Hat. Apparently there are already two such wikis, but neither contains much content. We're welcome to add to those or to make our own.

So, do you guys want to use one of these sites?

http://dresdenfilesrpg.wikidot.com/ (http://dresdenfilesrpg.wikidot.com/)
http://dresdenverse.wikidot.com/ (http://dresdenverse.wikidot.com/)

Yeah I saw those.  I'm not a huge fan of wikidot, but it's not nothing.
Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: bibliophile20 on December 15, 2010, 12:43:21 AM
let's go with the one that actually mentions the RPG in the title; the other could just be about the books in general.  However, not having used Wikidot before, I have to ask: are we better off making a wiki on Wikia?  I know Wikia supports sortable tables and other useful features for lists; does Wikidot?
Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 15, 2010, 09:03:56 PM
To be honest, I'm more inclined to make a new wiki than to use an old one. Neither of those sites has much content, and a fresh start would be nice. But in the end I'll go along with whatever the majority says because one site is vastly better than two.

I'm afraid that I don't know anything about wiki hosts. Sorry.
Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: Imp on December 15, 2010, 09:32:54 PM
would we want to piggy back on a Dresden files Wiki?
Example
Dresden Files Wikia (http://dresdenfiles.wikia.com/wiki/Dresden_Files)

or make one exclusively for the RPG?
Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: bibliophile20 on December 15, 2010, 10:15:55 PM
Make one exclusively for the RPG, I think.  ... Oh, hell.  Alright.  Gordian?  I hear you have a knot that's an issue...

Ladies, gents, let me present our new Resource Wiki: http://dfrpg-resources.wikia.com/wiki/Dresden_Files_RPG_Resources_Wiki 
Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 16, 2010, 01:20:07 AM
Looks good for a start. What would you like me to do?
Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: bibliophile20 on December 16, 2010, 01:29:05 AM
Looks good for a start. What would you like me to do?
Whatever you want to. 

However, if you want suggestions...

There are two big overarcing things that need to be done:
Port over the NPCs, the monsters, the aspect lists, etc.
Organize the information for ease of access (tags, sortable tables, sub-pages, etc)

Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 17, 2010, 04:37:46 AM
Alright. My schedule opens up tomorrow afternoon, so I'll be able to do quite a bit. If you could leave the character section to me for a couple days I'd appreciate it.
Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: bibliophile20 on December 17, 2010, 01:40:28 PM
I started on the NPC section, but that was just setting up a basic organization and starting copying over some of the stuff you'd already done.  The rest is yours. 
Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 17, 2010, 07:46:52 PM
Well, I just started editing under the name "Sanctaphrax is taken" because, well, the username Sanctaphrax is taken. But I've run into some technical difficulties. First, all formatting is lost when the page is saved or previewed. Second, several functions just don't work. You press Enter, and a paragraph break opens up four lines below your cursor. Is there anything I can do about this? If not, I suggest we switch hosts to one that actually works.
Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: bibliophile20 on December 17, 2010, 08:19:15 PM
Well, I just started editing under the name "Sanctaphrax is taken" because, well, the username Sanctaphrax is taken. But I've run into some technical difficulties. First, all formatting is lost when the page is saved or previewed. Second, several functions just don't work. You press Enter, and a paragraph break opens up four lines below your cursor. Is there anything I can do about this? If not, I suggest we switch hosts to one that actually works.

That's weird, on both counts.  I haven't been having any problems with formatting or other entry work.  *goes, takes a look*  Ah!  I see what you mean by formatting.  Okay, hmmm... let's see...

You entered this:
Code: [Select]
Demon Lord (Deep One)

High Concept: Demon Lord
Other Aspects: Skinwalker, Do Not Summon If You Wish To Live, Enemy Of God, Limitless Cruelty, Legions Of The Damned
Skills:
Epic: Conviction
Fantastic: Discipline, Lore
Superb: Intimidation, Presence, Contacts
Great: Deceit, Empathy, Resources
Good: Rapport, Scholarship, Performance
Fair: Burglary, Craftsmanship, Driving
Average: Endurance, Investigation, Fists, Guns
Stunts:
Fanatic's Attitude (Conviction): Use Conviction to defend against social attacks.
It Is Entirely Reasonable To Be Afraid Of Me (Intimidation): +2 to Intimidation against anyone who knows what the Demon Lord is capable of.
Demon Lord (Contacts): May use Contacts to acquire minions.
Legions Of The Damned (Contacts): May use Contacts to declare the presence of lesser demons.
Powers:
Marked By Power (Satan, or perhaps himself) [-1]
True Shapeshifting [-4]
Modular Abilities [-12] (Capable of changing the catch for toughness powers, so all catches are worth 0)
The Sight [-1]
Gaze Of The Damned [-0] (Reflavoured Soulgaze)
Evocation [-3]
Thaumaturgy [-3]
Sponsored Magic (Hellfire) [-2]
Refinement [-7]
Physical Immunity [-8]
The Catch (Holy Stuff) [+2]
Guide My Hand [-1]
Unrighteousness [-2] (The counterpart to Righteousness)
Unholy Touch [-1] (The counterpart to Holy Touch)
Sponsored Faith [-1] (May take sponsor debt instead of spending fate points to fuel True Faith powers)
Magic:
Evocation (Fire, Water, Spirit): +1 spirit control, +2 fire power, +3 fire control
Thaumaturgy: +1 necromancy complexity, +2 diabolism control, +3 diabolism complexity
Foci: Triangle Chain (+2 offensive power to hellfire), Square Chain (+2 offensive control to hellfire), Pentagon Chain (+2 complexity to diabolism)
Enchanted Items: 4 potion slots (strength 6)
Total Refresh Cost:
-48
Refresh Total:
-10

And got this:
Quote
Demon Lord (Deep One)

High Concept: Demon Lord Other Aspects: Skinwalker, Do Not Summon If You Wish To Live, Enemy Of God, Limitless Cruelty, Legions Of The Damned Skills: Epic: Conviction Fantastic: Discipline, Lore Superb: Intimidation, Presence, Contacts Great: Deceit, Empathy, Resources Good: Rapport, Scholarship, Performance Fair: Burglary, Craftsmanship, Driving Average: Endurance, Investigation, Fists, Guns Stunts: Fanatic's Attitude (Conviction): Use Conviction to defend against social attacks. It Is Entirely Reasonable To Be Afraid Of Me (Intimidation): +2 to Intimidation against anyone who knows what the Demon Lord is capable of. Demon Lord (Contacts): May use Contacts to acquire minions. Legions Of The Damned (Contacts): May use Contacts to declare the presence of lesser demons. Powers: Marked By Power (Satan, or perhaps himself) [-1] True Shapeshifting [-4] Modular Abilities [-12] (Capable of changing the catch for toughness powers, so all catches are worth 0) The Sight [-1] Gaze Of The Damned [-0] (Reflavoured Soulgaze) Evocation [-3] Thaumaturgy [-3] Sponsored Magic (Hellfire) [-2] Refinement [-7] Physical Immunity [-8] The Catch (Holy Stuff) [+2] Guide My Hand [-1] Unrighteousness [-2] (The counterpart to Righteousness) Unholy Touch [-1] (The counterpart to Holy Touch) Sponsored Faith [-1] (May take sponsor debt instead of spending fate points to fuel True Faith powers) Magic: Evocation (Fire, Water, Spirit): +1 spirit control, +2 fire power, +3 fire control Thaumaturgy: +1 necromancy complexity, +2 diabolism control, +3 diabolism complexity Foci: Triangle Chain (+2 offensive power to hellfire), Square Chain (+2 offensive control to hellfire), Pentagon Chain (+2 complexity to diabolism) Enchanted Items: 4 potion slots (strength 6) Total Refresh Cost: -48 Refresh Total: -10

I'm not sure what to do about this; the help files aren't very helpful, so, yeah, maybe switching to a different wiki host--one that has WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get) formatting--might be a good idea.  First, let's see if we can do anything with Wikia.  If we're just beating our heads against the wall by the end of the weekend, we'll move to Wikispaces; I've been using it for about two years now, and I know their system well; it just doesn't have some tools that I know Wikia has, which is why I suggested Wikia.  *shrug*  No big deal.  Bit of a pity, though.
Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 17, 2010, 11:19:29 PM
Hey! You have actual formatting on the NPC page! How do you do that?

By the way, I think that having a page for each character and making the NPC page into a collection of links would be advisable. The NPC page doesn't have many characters on it, and it's already unwieldy. Also, it would make it easier to sort characters into categories.
Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: bibliophile20 on December 18, 2010, 12:29:39 AM
Hey! You have actual formatting on the NPC page! How do you do that?

By the way, I think that having a page for each character and making the NPC page into a collection of links would be advisable. The NPC page doesn't have many characters on it, and it's already unwieldy. Also, it would make it easier to sort characters into categories.
I used the formatting bar...  Huh.  Okay, I've been getting increasing frustrated with their interface all afternoon.  Rather than throw good effort after bad, I'm going to bite the bullet and start up a Wikispaces site, because I know that one works, and works well.

So, wikispaces.  http://dfrpg-resources.wikispaces.com/

I'm going to copy over what we already have, with the same format, with a few caveats.  One: Going to include a tag cloud on most of the pages.  I agree with the point that having each NPC with their own sub-page works, so there'll be a tag cloud there, and I'll take a few minutes to put together a template for NPC pages. 

However, Stunts and Powers should all be on one big page for each, I think; trying to break down Stunts by skill and powers by type will get confusing. 
Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 18, 2010, 01:14:10 AM
Sounds good to me. There's no good reason to divide up the stunts and powers any further.
Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: bibliophile20 on December 18, 2010, 01:45:49 AM
Spells on the other hand... Individual pages each.  Given the novellas that some of them have accompanying them, that seems to be a decent idea.  ;)
Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: finnmckool on December 20, 2010, 05:45:41 AM
Are you guys gonna post any rules definitions, not book excerpts, but definitions? WoJ stuff? Or is that crossing boundaries?
Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 20, 2010, 06:59:20 AM
We don't have any clear boundaries. We should probably ask Evil Hat for some.

Regardless, I intend to write a "player's guide" for this game sometime in the next week. It'll contain a basic rundown of the rules and answers to common questions. Once it's done, it'll go on the wiki. But someone else will have to do WoJ stuff, since I don't know anything about that. Does it stand for Word Of Jim (Butcher)?
Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: Drashna on December 20, 2010, 08:17:16 AM
yes, it stands for WoJ, and seems to be mis-quoted quite often. :)  (especially when it comes to the Erlking, who everyone assumes Jim says is a King of Summer, but *NEVER* actually says that. :))

And the link for the thread of all collected WoJ is here:
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,21772.0.html

And the thread is very comprehensive.
Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: Serack on December 20, 2010, 10:58:38 AM
yes, it stands for WoJ, and seems to be mis-quoted quite often. :)  (especially when it comes to the Erlking, who everyone assumes Jim says is a King of Summer, but *NEVER* actually says that. :))

And the link for the thread of all collected WoJ is here:
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,21772.0.html

And the thread is very comprehensive.

Although the words "the Erlking is the Summer King" wasn't said...

Quote
Where are the Farie kings?  Do they exist?
Yes they do.  The Erlking as sort of the Hunter king, and Santa Clause, the Winter king who is not the commercial Santa Clause.  The kings are sort of the opposite of the queens in their given season.  They are independent of their Queen’s courts.  The Erlking is not a particularly friendly guy, whereas Santa Clause is kinder, the spirit of generosity in a time of bleakness.  Yah I’ve gota have Harry ask Mab about him so she can roll her eyes.

He does say that Santa Clause is the Winter King, but he makes it clear that he is talking about the 2 kings of the 2 opposite seasons, and the only other being he talks about is the Erlking.  Honestly, if Jim is even slightly trixy about how he words something he is upfront about it and makes sure we know.  If he doesn't want us to know something, he tells us.  I've heard him chant "I'm not gonna tell you and rub the inside of his elbow and mutter about heroin for writers a lot.  If the Erlking isn't the Summer King, then this WoJ is an instance of Jim trying to deliberately mislead his readership at a public Q&A and honestly, he respects us too much to do that.
Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: bibliophile20 on December 20, 2010, 11:23:04 AM
Are you guys gonna post any rules definitions, not book excerpts, but definitions? WoJ stuff? Or is that crossing boundaries?
I was planning, in the example section, to post example combats (like that excellent example social combat or a link to it), example item crafting math, example ward construction, and other similar points.

Regarding WoJ, hasn't he said that he won't play this game, because he knows that he'll be the guy at the table saying "Well, it does work this way, and I'll throw something into the next book to prove it!"?   ;D ::)
Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: Quazar on December 20, 2010, 11:37:41 AM
Although the words "the Erlking is the Summer King" wasn't said...

He does say that Santa Clause is the Winter King, but he makes it clear that he is talking about the 2 kings of the 2 opposite seasons, and the only other being he talks about is the Erlking.  Honestly, if Jim is even slightly trixy about how he words something he is upfront about it and makes sure we know.  If he doesn't want us to know something, he tells us.  I've heard him chant "I'm not gonna tell you and rub the inside of his elbow and mutter about heroin for writers a lot.  If the Erlking isn't the Summer King, then this WoJ is an instance of Jim trying to deliberately mislead his readership at a public Q&A and honestly, he respects us too much to do that.

Of note:  It's A Summer King, not THE Summer King.  There are 3 Queens of each Court, so why not as many of more Kings?  It seems more like a courtesy title, something won by might instead of directly related to the Seasonal Courts.

EDIT: at 7:12 in the youtube video of the DragonCon interview he says specifically "The Erlking, he is a Summer King."
         And Santa Claus is "one of the Winter Kings" - plural
Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: Serack on December 20, 2010, 09:47:00 PM
Of note:  It's A Summer King, not THE Summer King.  There are 3 Queens of each Court, so why not as many of more Kings?  It seems more like a courtesy title, something won by might instead of directly related to the Seasonal Courts.

EDIT: at 7:12 in the youtube video of the DragonCon interview he says specifically "The Erlking, he is a Summer King."
         And Santa Claus is "one of the Winter Kings" - plural

Sorry, in almost all of the quotes in my compilation I was diligent to take the notes word for word, but that was one of the most recent quotes for the earlier iteration of the compilation and I was running out of words so I had to edit down.

Having forgotten that I was pretty much forced to edit that one down some, I was assuming that the quote in the resource was verbatim which it wasn't.

Really the whole point of my responding was to counter this:

yes, it stands for WoJ, and seems to be mis-quoted quite often. :)  (especially when it comes to the Erlking, who everyone assumes Jim says is a King of Summer, but *NEVER* actually says that. :))

And you pointed out that not only was it implied, but he did actually say "the Erlking is a summer king"

As to the nature of the titles.  He does say that the kings are related to the Seasons.  The Kings courts however are separate from the queen's courts.  So far when the winter court is referred it is usually in context to the winter Queen's court, but remember that Mauve's court has a level of separation from Mab's and it seems that the Respective seasonal King's courts also have a much higher degree of separation from the queen's courts. 
Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: finnmckool on December 21, 2010, 05:11:14 PM
I was planning, in the example section, to post example combats (like that excellent example social combat or a link to it), example item crafting math, example ward construction, and other similar points.

Regarding WoJ, hasn't he said that he won't play this game, because he knows that he'll be the guy at the table saying "Well, it does work this way, and I'll throw something into the next book to prove it!"?   ;D ::)

Firstly, that's precisely what I was thinking of

Secondly, all kidding aside, even if he doesn't play this game his word is the definitive answer.  And I'd totally play this game for that EXACT reason if I were him. And I'd make a deity character named Jim. Or a Dragon. Or what have you.
Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: Serack on December 22, 2010, 02:54:46 AM
Firstly, that's precisely what I was thinking of

Secondly, all kidding aside, even if he doesn't play this game his word is the definitive answer.  And I'd totally play this game for that EXACT reason if I were him. And I'd make a deity character named Jim. Or a Dragon. Or what have you.

I'm pretty sure he said it at the latest Powell's Books signing, not sure where in the 6 youtube videos worth of Q&A though... maybe near the beginning.  

A more complete version of the quote is something like:

"I won't play because I'd be any GM's nightmare.  I'd be like, 'Yes it works that way, and if necessary I'll write it in the next book,' and I won't GM one because then that would be way too much like work."
Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: Peteman on December 22, 2010, 03:15:35 AM
I want to add my Soulsteel Sponsored Magic to the wiki, no objections?
Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: Richard_Chilton on December 22, 2010, 03:17:00 AM
That's one of the points of a wiki - anyone can add anything.

Richard
Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: Sanctaphrax on December 22, 2010, 03:21:48 AM
I have the exact opposite of an objection to people adding stuff. Seriously, we could use some help.
Title: Re: DFRPG Resource Wiki
Post by: bibliophile20 on December 22, 2010, 03:51:02 AM
Yeah; building a wiki with this much material is like that old joke about the black market.  Well Organized, Fast, Fully Compiled: Pick two. 
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