I'm having a hard time running Social Conflicts. It may simply be that the players haven't prioritized Social skills, but whenever I have an NPC who needs to be won over with social graces, the game just bogs down: the players roll poorly, and end up having to squander Fate Points. Any good threads, resources, or words of advice?
With two aspects like that your PCs are going to need to be pretty damn convincing to talk her into dropping dime on the kid. Are they that convincing? If not, looks like they're going to need to find another way.
Maybe they should have tried to convince her that the kid needed saving and spent a fate point for a compel of "Concerned Mother."
Also, my PCs are commonly going around all together to interview people.
In the case of dealing with a reticent, intimidating but socially inclined opponent (such as, say, a Sphinx), should their "targets" be rolling their Social attacks against all the players at once (for example, rolling an Intimidation check against everyone at the beginning and dealing Social stress if the players fail their Defense rolls) or does any attack against a group need to be split like a Spray attack in a gunfight?
Just thought of this: should the opponent instead be using the Intimidation check as a social maneuver to set an environmental aspect Intimidating which can then be tagged for free in an appropriate later social exchange with whichever player it likes?
By thwe way, you're aware that Intimidation can also be prvocation and mouthing off, right? It doesn't have to be threats.
There's Rapport which they can use to chit-chat the mother as well.
But right now my players and I talk a lot about the mechanics during play, so there's a lot of back and forth on "Well what should I do now" or "Here's an idea..." I've been learning as much about it from them as they are from me.
At one point, they tried an appeal that SHOULD have targeted the Concerned Mother Aspect, had they known about the Aspect. Should I have given them the +2 or asked for a Fate Point for it to work, even though they didn't Assess the Concerned Mother aspect? Treat it as a Guessed Aspect?
Another thought: it is said that the players' Aspect choice determines the type of game and situations they want to see. Should their choice of Skills be factored into it as well?
If an entire group has put minimal effort into Social skills, should Social situations be emphasized less often? Or should they come up whenever reasonable, and simply provide consistently entertaining ways for the players to stumble, fail, concede and get Fate Points?
This is one of those things that you should establish at city creation really. Otherwise you can get groups like the one I had last, where everyone is physically focused except for me...
I'm not sure how Social Initiative would have helped you? Can you talk more about that?
If one of your players has refresh to spare, then maybe you can convince them to take a stunt that lets them attack with Conviction. It's thematically justifiable and would help rather a lot in this situation. Also, a Warden should have a decent Intimidation skill. Perhaps you could have one of their superiors chew them out for not being scary enough.
I'd say that you need at least Good Conviction, Discipline, and Lore to be a full member of the council. Wardens would probably also at least need Good Weapons, Fair Endurance, and either Rapport or Intimidation at Fair.
regarding initiative, we're they really in a situation where move order was important? Was the Mother trying to get off a social attack before them? Were the PCs in competition for who would go first?
That's why I'm not sure the situation warranted iniative rolls.
I see two problems with the situation where you're using social conflict to get the clue from the worried mom type.
1. I don't think it necessarily needs a full scale social conflict. You wouldn't need to run her out of Composure and drill through Consequences. Assuming the PCs were at all sympathetic, she's probably Concede pretty quickly. Most likely after taking a single Consequence. There's no need to draw it out more than that.
2. You're making a mistake that I find a lot of people new to investigation style games make: You've bottlenecked the information at one point
For example, a group of players against one NPC, or a single player against a group of NPCs.
- Would one member of the group (presumably the most socially apt) serve as the voice, making all of the rolls to deal Social Stress, executing Social maneuvers, etc., with other group members restricting their participation to making rolls to assist the voice?
- Or is it a free-for-all, with the lone participant having to divide energy between all of the members of the opposing group?
It would make sense that ganging up on someone would have benefits to browbeating them, but I don't want to oversimplify the Conflict.
In a pinch, remember that words can hit everyone at the same time. So, you should be able to make social attacks/blocks/maneuvers that target everyone in the group.
I'd like to, but it seems potentially unbalancing. Maybe a Spray attack? ::shrugs::Sounds legit, or make a stunt to that effect, along the line of public speaking, that more people feel that you are addressing them particularly.
The last bit sounds very reasonable. Namely, the section on "running the game", suggesting that even botched conflicts progressing the story, just maybe in a different way. Or a less savory way. :) (aka, still get the info, but maybe it's misleading, or outright wrong)
But sometimes the GM's job *is* to say "no."
I'd like to, but it seems potentially unbalancing.
Really? To me it just makes sense and provides less incentive for your players to try to swarm NPCs in social conflicts. So, it's not only logical, but it improves the fiction at the same time.
Getting my mind wrapped around maneuvers was the key to making the magic system workable in this game system; otherwise it's too much cost for overall, too little effort that doesn't last long enough (I prefer as a player to use systems that favor item creation sorts of stuff, or long term effects) the idea that the whole party can effectively contribute to the success of the "point character" no matter if it's magic, social stuff or whatever just by itself contributs to teamwork and creativity and makes for a better game.
that being said, I do tend to role play social stuff more than make it conflict, but this is giving me ideas. Thanks!
I definitely think full Social Conflict should be reserved for really meaty encounters with important NPCs at critical points. If the mother is there primarily for clues and information, make it a skill test rather than a full conflict.
You might want to remember that, as well as those options a creative and subtle wizard may attack and maneuver using spells. I have yet to think of a thematic device that would work as a social block, but there's no reason why that couldn't work too if someone figures that one out.I'd be very reluctant to allow direct social attacks via spells. Allowing such is inviting the AD&D wizard syndrome into FATE...
I agree with Fedifensor. A seven shift evocation is pretty much an instant win in the absence of toughness powers/extremely high defences. And there are no social toughness powers, which makes wizards the best social tanks around.
If you still support the idea of magical social attacks, remember that social combat attacks lack weapon ratings. Weapon 5+ attacks aren't exactly fair when everything else is weapon 0.
Maneuvers are probably fine, though. Sinker's example sounds like a combination of a spellcasting maneuver and Great Intimidation to me.
One of the reasons that wizards are so powerful in DFRPG is that they are so flexible. Using magic they can do almost anything that anyone else can do as long as they are creative, however if they don't have the time to prepare they are limited in how often they can do it. A great example of a social conflict in which spells were used is in White Night(click to show/hide)
Also I noticed Rapport wasn't on your list as an attacking skill. The Chit-Chat trapping allows one to make social attacks with Rapport.
Also I noticed Rapport wasn't on your list as an attacking skill. The Chit-Chat trapping allows one to make social attacks with Rapport.I listed it...but I said it was primarily for maneuvers, based on the description under Chit-Chat: