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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: zerogain on December 03, 2010, 05:05:08 AM
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So I can't seem to find anything with search, probably not looking hard enough I guess. Is it possible with either evocation or thaumaturgy to create a "blade shaped" field of force (spirit) that can then subsequently be handled by it's creator?
If so, how would you do it? For evocation I'm thinking spell strength as weapon rating with deductions for duration and the like, and possibly bonuses since it requires skill with weaponry to use.
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I'd call it a simple Force/Spirit Evocation with duration. You get into some odd areas if you want to parry with it, so maybe a combined Attack/Block spell with duration. The combined difficulty would be high enough that I wouldn't cavil as a GM - and the possibilities of Lawbreaking would warm the cold cockles of my black GM's heart.
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You can Conjure a sword. +1 for the shape, +2 or +4 more to get it sharp and useful.
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YS 275:
"Can I Conjure a Sword?
Sure! You can conjure a sword, using thaumaturgy. But…why? It’ll take you at least a few minutes to conjure the thing, since this is thaumaturgy in action, and unless you toss some extra power into it to outlast the sunrise, it’ll dissolve in less than a day. That, and most fencers don’t like to rely on a sword that can be dispelled mid-fight. When it comes down to it, it’s a lot of work for something ephemeral, and when you need a sword, you tend to need a sword right now—so go out and buy one already."
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Yeah. Thats why it wouldn't be worth it with thaumaturgy. Evocation has less to worry about from counterspells (it wouldn't last long anyway), but its also just a different way of describing "force Blasts". Any use of Evocation must be one of the combat actions (Attack, Block, maneuver or counterspell).
So really all you'd be doing is describing any force based attack spell that target enemies in the same zone as you, as a blade of force (and probably describing any force block spells as parries). You can't really add duration to an attack spell, so, mechanically, you'd be recasting the spell every time you attacked, and just saying that sword was active the whole time. This also opens the avenue of casting a "Force Block" (parrying with the sword), then redirecting the energy into an attack spell.
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One way to do this would be to make a Ritual which grants you multiple copies of an Aspect "Force Blade" which you can tag during a Weapons check for a +2 bonus. The GM would have to grant that having the aspect Force Blade means you are considered armed and can *use* the Weapons skill.
Per YS 265:
"If the intent is to create a temporary aspect that can be tagged more than once (remember that normally you’d only get the benefit of the tag once and have to invoke after that), simply chain two or more maneuvers together in the same spell, each inflicting the same aspect or a similar variant. In other words, if you want to take advantage of two tags against a target of Good Conviction, you’ll need to set up two maneuvers, for a minimum complexity of 6 (3 for each, as per above). As wizards are usually low on fate points, this option allows you a little more mileage without having to worry about impacting your fate point budget."
Obviously, a ritual maneuver targeting yourself wouldn't need to take *you* out, so depending on GM latitude, the base complexity for landing the maneuver to place an individual "Force Blade" Aspect on yourself could probably be 1. You could then duplicate that enough times to last a certain number of attacks (free tags for +2 to your Weapons check), sort of like the number of uses for an enchanted item.
This could, of course, still be dispelled.
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It's a simple force evocation with some shifts put into duration. Use the the discipline/control roll to direct the first attack. You don't want to slow things down with multiple rolls. Additional attacks use weapons to direct. If you plan on doing this a lot consider buying claws with human guise and color it as a spell you have complete mastery of, sort of a super rote.
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I love the idea of a Energy (In this case Force) weapons, And I have heard a great number of ideas on different ways to go about it. So ill throw out a few.
1) Make it part of your aspect. Like “Short range sword wielding combat mage” you defiantly can word it your way, that way you can use your aspect to help out your Combat sword willing abilities. 2) Us it as short term routs, you cast your attack sword spell. A shining red sword of power appears in your hand, you make a devastating slashing attack and then it is gone. A same kind of Rout could be used as a defense spell. Same as above but you block in oncoming attack. Redirecting energy back Rout, and on and one. 3) it’s a standard glowing sword with power and duration, less mental stress, due to not casting over and over but less damage done over all. 4) Create A magic weapon (like Dresden Force rings) short term again but possible. 5) Care a miniature version of a sword and make it grow. Might not be a force sword but you are not walking around town with a 5 foot sword in hand. 6) Care a normal sword and add damage by making it flaming, ice etc…, with a Rout. A weapon: 2 sword go up to 3 and duration 4… or whatever.
Hope this help, again this is only one man’s thought…. No matter how much of a genius he is..:)
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Evocation just isn't terribly good at this type of thing. You could perhaps justify adding duration to an attack spell by the fact that you have to roll attacks, but then you won't be able to parry with it. If you can parry with it, you can't attack. So you'd again need to create it with two effects, which means wasted shifts of power on the duration. It's basically a really long way to go to achieve the visual you want.
I think that the simplest way to do it would be a set of enchanted items working in tandem, with the narrative effect of creating a sword. The first would provide you with a number of attacks, the second with a number of blocks. Use multiple item slots so that you can use the things several times each.
Someone with sponsored magic might conceivably be able to justify some type of blade creation as Thaum with Evo speed, but that's between you and your gods.
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I had the idea of a character like an adept in Shadowrun, who uses magic to increase his melee attacks. Basically I gave him a stunt that let him use fists instead of discipline for close combat spells like a melee block or an enhanced fists attack. The numbers are the same, if I cast a spell on an opponent using discipline or fists, but fists are restricted in range, of course. I even thought about having him use fists to cast rituals, because he would have some sort of martial arts background, so he would use the motions from his martial arts style in his rituals.
You could do the same with a weapon stunt, so instead of channeling force through his body to hit his target (like my guy), he shapes the force into a weapon he uses to attack. It would still have the same rules like a normal spell, only you use weapons instead of discipline (and of course the range problem is there again). If he uses his magic like that, it is only fitting that he will not be as good at conventional evocation attacks (read: fireballs etc.), which probably should be reflected in an aspect like Harry's "not so subtle, yet quick to anger" or Molly's "subtlety is its own power" aspects reflect the parts of magic they are good at.
An aspect like "ethereal sword" could represent that for your guy. If you do not cast a spell, you can just say the sword is still there, because it is his style, it just doesn't do anything else then give you a reason to use the weapon skill in any fight. And maybe allow you to invoke your aspect on your weapon skill, of course.
A totally different approach:
Make the Sword a Supernatural power, that lets you use a weapon:2 magic sword as described above. It would be the melee equivalent of the breath weapon power. Somewhere someone proposed using breath weapon as a power for a fireball slinging wizard, so he would be more effective in combat, because he would not take stress from casting. The Argument was, that the wizard is so good at combat magic, that it basically is part of his nature.
Here's how I would stat it:
Ethereal Sword [-2]
Description: You are able to create a magical weapon in your hands to attack a target in your zone)
Note: You'll need to lock down this magical weapon to a single type of effect - e.g. a sword made of fire, ice, lightning, etc. - when you take this ability.
Skills Affected: Weapons (this is treated as a melee weapon).
Effects:
Magic Weapon: This is a self generated Weapon:2 for melee range. As with any weapon, you might be able to use it to perform combat maneuvers if you can justify it.
Parry: You can use your weapon skill to defend against a melee attack instead of dodge.
Might be especially powerful if combined with a weapons stunt like Wall of Death ;)
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That is way overpriced. Compare with Incite Emotion with the Lasting Emotion upgrade for a -2 cost. Whoever has that ability can attack, maneuver and block at skill+2, with a melee weapon 2 effect that does mental damage (thus ignoring toughness and most armor).
Just adapt the above ability to a physical weapon. The disadvantage over Incite Emotion is that you could not automatically ignore toughness and most armor. The advantages are that, since it will be based off the weapon skill, the sword can parry and it would get benefit from abilities increasing physical damage.
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Costly maybe, but suppose you gave it a discount if the character had Channeling or Evocation? The catch being the weapon is mandated to be a type of energy they can control at the time the power is purchased.
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If directly attacking a target's Mental track would be deemed by most to be worth an additional -1 Refresh, then maybe (in the context of Belial666's Incite Lasting Emotion argument) we can justify making this easier on everyone, by reskinning the Claws power.
- Remove the 'always visible' disadvantage, and replace it with a 'must be summoned with a successful 3-shift Evocation spell (which would cost stress); lasts for one scene; can be dispelled' limitation.
- Remove the 'stacks with Strength abilities' benefit, and replace it with 'can be used for maneuvers and blocks' benefit.
- Replace 'Fists attacks' with 'Weapons attacks.'
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Since any thaumaturgy rite can be put into an item the easiest way to make a sword appear is an enchanted item that conjures one. Say a sword hilt - that way you can walk around unarmed until you need it, then use one of its daily uses or (if they've all been used) take a mental stress to conjure the sword.
You have it as long as you need it but can still get through pat downs and scanner.
If a sword hilt is too out there you could enchant a different item. Say an old fashion fountain pen that conjures a sword around it.
True it can still be dispelled, but if it is you can activate the item again.
Richard
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if a sword hilt is too out there you could enchant a different item. Say an old fashion fountain pen that conjures a sword around it.
Subtle Percy Jackson references. Nice.
I'd go with a ring or a glove though. Something unobtrusive thats already in your hand.
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Actually it was less Percy Jackson and more "the pen is mightier than the sword" - which is probably the inspiration for the Percy Jackson pen/sword.
Speaking of Percy Jackson - that movie (and the books that inspired it) is full of scion concepts. Most of the main characters have "Son of..." or "Daughter of..." as their high concepts, and you can almost see the compells when it come to the daughters of Aphrodite and some of the other characters who act like their divine parents.
It could easily be adapted to a high powered Dresden game.
Richard
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Speaking of Percy Jackson - that movie (and the books that inspired it) is full of scion concepts. Most of the main characters have "Son of..." or "Daughter of..." as their high concepts, and you can almost see the compells when it come to the daughters of Aphrodite and some of the other characters who act like their divine parents.
Absolutely. Plus the books are pretty good. Way better than Harry Potter. They're also a good basis for ideas if you want to use greek mythology in a Dresden game. I personally didn't care for the movie though. It was kinda weak.
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It was weak and it aged the characters. In the movie the characters start off as "High schoolers / old enough to drive" when the books they start off more or less where Harry Potter did. The stuff they skipped over means they can't milk the books for movies the way Harry Potter books were milked because:
a) the characters would quickly be too old for most of it make sense, and
b) most of the elements that point to the end were cut from the movie.
But as a "eat popcorn cheer for the good guys" type movie it was okay. Especially if you tried to pretend that it wasn't actually based on any book.
Richard
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It was weak and it aged the characters. In the movie the characters start off as "High schoolers / old enough to drive" when the books they start off more or less where Harry Potter did.
Mostly I didn't like how they 1) Disneyfied it by cutting out all the "More Mature" content. I actually wouldn't have minded them being older in the movie if they had left in the stuff about him being a troubled kid, and how abusive hos stepdad was.
And 2) They cut out all the depth of the first books story, and replaced it with scenes from the later books.
And 3) They made the underworld into Hell, and Hades into Satan (I hate when people do that, because in the myths Hades was actually one of the more benign gods).
Anyway, I like Riordans work. He really knew what he was talking about, the movie just kinda did whatever it wanted.
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And 3) They made the underworld into Hell, and Hades into Satan (I hate when people do that, because in the myths Hades was actually one of the more benign gods).
I agree, what most Christians like to think of as hell is Tartarus in Greek myth.
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That is way overpriced. Compare with Incite Emotion with the Lasting Emotion upgrade for a -2 cost. Whoever has that ability can attack, maneuver and block at skill+2, with a melee weapon 2 effect that does mental damage (thus ignoring toughness and most armor).
Why is it overpriced? It is exactly what Breath Weapon does, except it can only be used in the zone you are in instead of up to 1 zone away, which is 0.5 refresh at most. I tried to put that into a stunt that is tied to the power and fits the melee theme. Maybe you can add a bonus to the parry if the effect type of the weapon resonates with what you want to parry. Remember, that it is a power:2 attack spell with no stress cost, so you can throw those around as much as you like while any wizard without that power would be drained of his resources pretty fast. I think -2 refresh is absolutely fair. As zerogain said, you could think about a discount if you already have evocation or at least channeling for the element you chose for the weapon, but other than that I think it is fine.
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Why is it overpriced?
Because it is nothing but claws, a -1 power, with different color.
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And because unlike Breath Weapon, Incite Emotion can be used for attacks, maneuvers and blocks at skill+2. The full potential of Incite Emotion is summarized below;
Someone with Superb Intimidate and Incite Fear + Lasting Fear can rip your mind to shreds, doing Epic attacks at Weapon 2. Or they can make you cower in terror, unable to think of anything to do - that's an Epic offensive Block against your Discipline - or make themselves so terrifying you fear to attack them - that's an Epic defensive block against your attacks. Even a wizard with superb discipline is going to get mauled by something like that. And don't forget all the aspects they can apply to others - and themselves. They can do maneuvers that very nearly automatically succeed against most people to apply sticky aspects like "cowering", "fleeing in terror", "fainted", and any other nasty, fear-related thing you can think of as well as put on themselves sticky aspects like "frightening", "intimidating", "dreadful presence" and so on, which they can tag on social rolls (duh), defense rolls (you fear to attack them), attack rolls (your fear of them is a weakness), and of course further uses of the Incite Emotion power itself since an emotion-related aspect that matches the emotion of the Incite power is only going to help.
Same thing can be done with pretty much any emotion - though Despair is more offensive than Fear in general, while Lust is more socially oriented and defensive. After all, who would want to attack the sex-goddess they are busy drooling over? That their inability to attack (or socially engage, depending on the situation) comes from a Legendary+1 block made by tagging an "unnaturally attractive" aspect she'd previously created on herself via maneuver in order to enhance her use if Incite Emotion to create said block is kind of lost on them; you can't read the fine print when you're busy making a fool of yourself.
There's a reason Incite Emotion + Lasting Emotion is priced as much as Channeling.
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Since any thaumaturgy rite can be put into an item the easiest way to make a sword appear is an enchanted item that conjures one. Say a sword hilt - that way you can walk around unarmed until you need it, then use one of its daily uses or (if they've all been used) take a mental stress to conjure the sword.
;D I like the idea... kind of like a lightsaber style hilt that runs off magic vs tech.
Grab the hilt - poof - nice force blade, lightning blade, fire blade... sweet!
I had this thought for a character ive been dreaming of... but im still a n00b.
How would this work / be created and or invoked?
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Of note, If you want to just cast an attack spell with additional duration, one way to make it more versatile is to mold the attack spell around an actual weapon. One of my friends was playing a blind winter emissary and he liked to wield a sword coated in an aura of decay. It worked quite well if a little overpowered, but then my problem lies less with the versatility and more with the concept of sustaining a 6 shift weapon.
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;D I like the idea... kind of like a lightsaber style hilt that runs off magic vs tech.
Grab the hilt - poof - nice force blade, lightning blade, fire blade... sweet!
I had this thought for a character ive been dreaming of... but im still a n00b.
How would this work / be created and or invoked?
Check out YS 275 for the rules on conjuring a normal sword. If memory serves it's 3 shifts to do it.
To do a light saber type thing...
Looking at the Shape Magical Energies into Physical Forms heading "The complexity of one of these spells is
similar to the shift requirements for an equivalent evocation (block for wards, attack for magical traps, etc.) with additional shifts added for duration."
Problem: those attacks are one offs, which would mean re-activating the sword after every attack.
So maybe:
+ 3 base for conjuring a sword
+ 2 give it the aspect "energy sword" - tagged for a +1 damage.
+ 5 duration (15 minutes per use)
If the math is right you would need Lore 5 to make an enchanted item to conjure your sword.
And if the math isn't right then I'm sure someone will point that out.
Yes, it does look high, but it explains why Dresden doesn't have his own light saber.
Richard
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Make the Enchanted Item Light sabre. Take Channeling (force), and Ritual (mind magic) and you have a Jedi.
Or if you just want a guy with a badass energy sword, you might just make it an Item of Power.
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An Item of Power might be the best way to stat out an energy sword like the ones from the movies...
Thinking about it, that trick that Luccio does with fire is basically an invocation energy sword with reach. The trick is to stat it as a thaumaturgy spell that:
a) isn't impossible to put into an enchanted item, and
b) is useful.
Part of me wants to make it a conjured sword with an aspect that makes it look kewl, but leaves it with the stats of a basic sword. That would be much easier to do but you'd lose out on being able to cut things in two.
Then again, it might be worth it just for the "watch this" factor as you activate it.
Richard