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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: The Dread Polack on October 25, 2010, 04:35:46 AM

Title: Delayed-activation spell/ enchanted tattoo
Post by: The Dread Polack on October 25, 2010, 04:35:46 AM
I have an idea for a character I'm building. I want him to have a pre-set "trap" spell on his body that will go off when a vampire tries to drink his blood. Possibly, he could expand this to other supernatural attacks as well. My idea for this is that he is a well-prepared wizard who knows that if a supernatural baddie gets past his offensive spells or shields, or catches him unaware, he still has one last line of defense that can mess up the creature enough so that he can maybe get away. I picture this as a being a tattoo that runs over his jugular and other major arteries and heart.

There has been some discussion on whether tattoos should be allowed for Focus or Enchantment items, and I personally don't think they should be, because I think it should be possible to take away magical items, but I think the Enchanted item rules handle this the best.

One other thought is that this would simply be handled as a thaumaturgy spell that is triggered by the specific circumstance I described above. This feels to me like cheating since there's almost no limit to these sorts of things, which is what item slots are for.

How would you guys handle this?
Title: Re: Delayed-activation spell/ enchanted tattoo
Post by: Kaldra on October 25, 2010, 06:08:21 AM
i would treat this as a potion, in tattoo form
Title: Re: Delayed-activation spell/ enchanted tattoo
Post by: sinker on October 25, 2010, 06:23:14 AM
And since potions can be declared you could just keep a slot in reserve and then toss a fate chip at the GM when you want to use it.
Title: Re: Delayed-activation spell/ enchanted tattoo
Post by: ironpoet on October 25, 2010, 05:56:36 PM
It sounds like you want the rules for Warding and "land mines", except that instead of trying to keep something magical out of your home, you're trying to keep it out of, well, yourself.  Maybe you could adapt the Ward guidlines to an enchanted item?  Instead of using the Ward as the baseline complexity, you could use a Reflexive Block, and then add land mines on top of that.

Title: Re: Delayed-activation spell/ enchanted tattoo
Post by: WillH on October 25, 2010, 06:15:56 PM
I would allow a straight application of the ward rules for this, maybe require an extra shift of power for the mobile nature. But, that's a pretty liberal application of the rules. Some groups might not be OK with it.
Title: Re: Delayed-activation spell/ enchanted tattoo
Post by: The Dread Polack on October 26, 2010, 12:22:12 AM
Yeah, I'm the GM, this is an NPC, and I'm not entirely comfortable with it. It's like an enchanted item that can't be taken away, or an evocation that you can cast as a free action.

Quote from: YS227, Will says:
Bob, do I have it right that wards are usually immobile, so if you want a big, long-lasting spell of protection it has to be rooted to one location? So if someone wants mobile protection, it’s all short term evocation and things like enchanted items?

Quote from: YS227, Bob says:
Very good, William! Your conclusions are generally correct. With magic, there are always exceptions—but they’re rare and tied to specific circumstances.

So, if I really wanted to follow the rules closely, I would have to explain a rare and specific circumstance why this effect is allowed. Some possibilities could be:


If I decide to try this thing out, I think I will use some of the above restrictions, plus I would be sure not to munchkin it out too much. One use per session is enough.
Title: Re: Delayed-activation spell/ enchanted tattoo
Post by: Becq on October 26, 2010, 03:06:51 AM
Or, if you want it to be a pretty-much-always-on sort of ward/defense, you might buy it as a power in its own right.  This is the answer the game designers give for abilities that might be possible through Thaumaturgy, but are used frequently (like Thaumaturgical shapeshifting).

So, for example, you might say that the character has 'Poisonous Blood' (to Red Court, but not to himself, clearly).  Powers give about 2 shifts of bonus per point of power (plus a bit for the first point).  So perhaps it would be reasonable to make the power a [-3] refresh power that does a 6-stress hit (toughness does not reduce) against any Red Court trying to chow down on him.  No attack roll, since the attack is unconcious, and no defense roll since the 'defender' is actively trying to "hit" himself.  You might be generous and call the power 'Poisonous Essence' and allow it to work against all flavors of vamps (and maybe other similar creatures that feed on blood/essence/life/soul/etc), since it is very situational.
Title: Re: Delayed-activation spell/ enchanted tattoo
Post by: The Dread Polack on October 26, 2010, 03:46:00 AM
Now there's something I didn't think of. Giving up Refresh is a pretty strong balancing factor.

I don't think it should be cheap, but -3 seems pretty steep, considering it's extremely limited usefulness. I'd have to play around with it a bit, but I think you might have it.
Title: Re: Delayed-activation spell/ enchanted tattoo
Post by: Becq on October 26, 2010, 04:08:26 AM
I went with the straight 2-shifts per refresh that it suggests (with the toughness bypass as a bit extra), but you could certainly modify this.  Yes, it's very situational, which makes it difficult to judge the refresh vs effect balance.  The problem is that the effect is pretty significant, too, when it comes into play.  Consider that even the toughest vampires with max physical stress boxes and Mythic Toughness would take a mild consequence, and less tough vampires (which should be most of them) would get hit with a moderate.  Oh, you might change 'toughness does not reduce' to 'counts as The Catch' if you want to beef it up a bit; this would mean that Recovery can't help reduce the consequence's duration.

Other options might include:
* Make the attack 6-stress plus one per stress inflicted on the character being bit
* Allow the character being bit to spend a Fate to boost the attack strength by +2
* Expand the usefulness by treating the character's blood kind of like holy water; ie, it works on touch and can be used as an attack

Hard to say, though, what would end up being a good balance.  I think the last would be too much, for example.
Title: Re: Delayed-activation spell/ enchanted tattoo
Post by: Kaldra on October 26, 2010, 06:23:40 AM
my first question would be: how often do you expect to get bitten? i ask this because unless this is going to come up often a character probably would be better off spending their refresh else where.
Title: Re: Delayed-activation spell/ enchanted tattoo
Post by: babel2uk on October 26, 2010, 12:08:03 PM
I'd be inclined to treat is as a potion using the Sunburst in a Hankerchief as a model. It's kinda like you'd got that contained under your collar, and when the vamp pulled the collar down to bite they get a facefull of sunshine. I think, for the amount of use you're likely to get from this - unless you're actively going to be cruising vampire clubs - then the potion model works best. I'd be inclined to assign the slot rather than just leave it open though - it feels like cheating to have something like that as a pre-designed effect and then conveniently ignore it just because you need the slot for something else. At the same time it feels a little bit silly to have to spend refresh on something like this if it's not something that's going to get regular use. (Obviously if it does then you can consider turning it into a power).

Flavour-wise you could have the ink of the tattoo flowing out with the blood and wrapping around the vampire's throat under the skin. That also gives you a reason to treat it as a potion - when it's gone, it's gone. The guy needs to restore the tattoo in order to use it again - I'm thinking here of the tattooing working something like the tattooist's ink in the last season of Heroes - where you pierce the skin and it runs in to become a picture.
Title: Re: Delayed-activation spell/ enchanted tattoo
Post by: Richard_Chilton on October 26, 2010, 08:45:09 PM
As an aside, the book A Madness of Angels by Kate Griffin has a scene where a Tattoo Mage gets neutralized - and neutralized in a way that I had never thought of.  In game terms it was a Thaum attack
(click to show/hide)
.  It seems the perfect counter to any tattooed spell.

Richard
Title: Re: Delayed-activation spell/ enchanted tattoo
Post by: Ranma1558 on October 27, 2010, 01:18:25 PM
Not too sure, but I could see this as a stunt (just go with me for a second) depending on how often you use the power, the previous potion idea if you use it little, this if its use is frequent.

Stunt: Mystic Tattoo-defense
Once per scene, if you are attacked with fists or bites, you may pay a fate point to cast a spell just before they hit you. You take stress and must make a discipline role as normal and may only use shifts of power equal to your lore.
Title: Re: Delayed-activation spell/ enchanted tattoo
Post by: sinker on October 27, 2010, 05:15:28 PM
Quote from: Ranma1558 on October 27, 2010, 01:18:25 PM
Not too sure, but I could see this as a stunt (just go with me for a second) depending on how often you use the power, the previous potion idea if you use it little, this if its use is frequent.

Stunt: Mystic Tattoo-defense
Once per scene, if you are attacked with fists or bites, you may pay a fate point to cast a spell just before they hit you. You take stress and must make a discipline role as normal and may only use shifts of power equal to your lore.

That seems a little overpowered for a stunt especially considering it's set to any close combat attack right now....
Title: Re: Delayed-activation spell/ enchanted tattoo
Post by: Ranma1558 on October 28, 2010, 12:56:10 AM
I think you're right, its a bit TOO general. I was trying to make it encompass the original problem as most biting attacks are a "fist" skill. Maybe instead it should be simply, "when ever you are attacked with bites or grapples"
What truly limits this is the restriction on power and paying a fate point.
Title: Re: Delayed-activation spell/ enchanted tattoo
Post by: The Dread Polack on October 29, 2010, 03:28:12 AM
Quote from: Kaldra
my first question would be: how often do you expect to get bitten? i ask this because unless this is going to come up often a character probably would be better off spending their refresh else where.

Not very often. Maybe every few games, and of course only when facing vampires.

A little background- I didn't come up with this during character creation. For years now I've been writing pieces of stories about a modern-day mage who ended up being a lot like Harry Dresden (imagine how annoyed I was when I read the books, heh). This was one of his little gimmicks. The idea is that magic can be very powerful, but all the time you spend practicing spellcraft takes away from kung-fu lessons, so he knew if a vamp got close to him, he'd need something fast with enough bang to get him out of trouble.

At this point, he's likely to be an NPC, unless I end up as a player in a group that specifically needs a wizard. Taking that into consideration, I can pretty much do whatever I want, and not worry too much unless one of the PCs wants to get one. It's mostly for this possibility, and my desire not to be a jerk GM with his annoying GMPC, and for the sake of interesting discussion, that I even bring it up.

I think if the power isn't game-breaking, and in concept it really isn't. it would be fine as an enchanted item slot. If I built it as a power, I wouldn't want to spend more than 2 refresh on it.

The next interesting question is: Story-wise, what makes this thing work? Even if it isn't game-breaking, how is it able to break the rules of how magic usually works? Is he privy to a secret technique of infusing wards into living beings? Does he owe a powerful being a favor for this? Does it come at some other cost?
Title: Re: Delayed-activation spell/ enchanted tattoo
Post by: ralexs1991 on November 02, 2010, 03:20:36 PM
in my game I actually GM and run my own PC at the same time it gets difficult but i made a pint to clearly define and keep seperate what I know as the GM and what I would know as a player one time I walked into a room full of vamps because idk about it (obviously i knew they were there but as a player i wouldn't have so  my character ended up with a few broken ribs because of it but it keeps the game fair which is what's important)