ParanetOnline
The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Tbora on October 03, 2010, 08:04:00 PM
-
I am trying to build a social monster how would I go about this?
The character concept is that of a Fortune 500 Company CEO turned US Senator.
How would I go about building this?
-
It's fairly straightforward. Just give him high social skills (Rapport should definitely be one of them), high resources and contacts, and a bunch of stunts.
-
What kind of stunts?
And how would you arrange his skill pyramid?
-
It kinda depends on what you want him to be; a smooth-talking politician that makes a bunch of promises and never keeps them would have Deceit at the top, whereas a charismatic, honest, trustworthy guy would probably have Rapport. Presence, Intimidate, and probably Discipline will be the next tier; Scholarship, Contacts, Conviction, those will probably be your next tier. Again, it all depends on what you want this guy to focus on.
-
First of all, pure mortal or are powers allowed? If powers are allowed, then I got a build if you're interested.
Secondly, in almost every social situation it is better to know what other people want in it - information is power. Hence, empathy should be a high skill. The other high skill depends on how you want to deal in social situations. There's Intimidate if you want to be scary, Presence if you want to be commanding and direct, Rapport if you want to be understanding and friendly - or seductive and Deceit if you want to be manipulative.
Stick with one or two ways to deal socially and then take stunts to improve them - spreading out your refresh and skills in multiple situations will usually make you less effective. After all, in the end it won't matter how you got what you wanted in any social situation; only that you did.
-
I want him to be a smooth talking politian that is somewhat crooked but generally keeps his word and tries to do whats right.I want him a natural leader and a very dominant personality.In addition he is good at manipulating and reading people.
He is ridiculously wealthy and has people pretty much everywhere.
And I would prefer pure mortal but show me what else you got too.
-
Just use your description of him to tell you what you want. Social characters are way easier to stat than other characters, because its so easy to go straight from the idea to the stats. You want him to be able to read people? That is specifically what empathy does. You want a natural leader? Thats right in the description for presence. Manipulater, but tries to be honest? Thats rapport. I shouldn't even have to tell you what wealth and knowing people is.
As for the shape of the pyramid, do whatever is necessary to fit all his skills in. If he's not going to have any abilities outside of the social stuff, do narrow columns. Otherwise, use broad columns or a pyramid.
-
Honestly, given what you've listed, I'd say use Marcone (OW187-189) as a template and adjust from there. Given the personality that you're looking for, it's a close fit that would just need some tweaking (change a few of the stunts, and change the aspects). Other than that, it will probably work just fine.
(but then again, I'm a fan of tweaking what's already there, over creating from scratch)
-
I need some good stunts for Contacts, Resources, Rapport, and Deceit.
I have the ones in the books already but there are not really a lot of them.
Thanks in advance for the help.
-
Don't know them in detail but check out Spirit of the Century or an SRD of it online and see if they have anything that translates. I've run into some of their gun & athletic stunts that are portable and translate well. Just bear in mind its a pulp game and the flavour might not align.
-
Don't own Spirit of the Century so that does me know good.
Any applicable stunts you might have for me (especially in Contacts) is much appreciated.
-
I'm going to let you in on a bit of a secret. Don't use stunts. No, seriously, don't
If you must, pick somewhere between 1-3 stunts that you absolutely know without a doubt will get used every session, and you know they'll have a good chance of being useful several times a session as well.
Reason: Stunts are a permanent Fate point expenditure, that give the same benefits that spending a Fate point would when they are used. If your ration of stunt use is lower than once per session, you've spent permanent Fate for something that isn't as helpful as an aspect invocation. If your ratio is just at once per session, you've spent permanent Fate for something that will be as potent as an invocation, but does not have the variability that you'd get from the ability to choose a bonus from among 7 different aspects. If the ratio is higher than once per session, then maybe, just maybe, the math comes out in favor of the stunt.
Stunts that give +1 bonuses instead of +2 are even worse, and need an even higher ration to be worthwhile.
The key to picking good stunts is to choose those that are absolutely core to what the character does, so that you have a really good chance of maintaining that ratio of stunt use per session.
-
I like stunts they are a great way to make your character unique.
I say again you might have for me is appreciated.
-
In general, I agree with what Luminos said, but I have to make the case for trapping switching stunts.
If you can justify switching a trapping from a skill you don't have to one of your apex skills and it's one of the only reasons you would have gotten that skill in the first place, the stunt is totally worth it. In that case, you're more or less getting a situational +4 or +5, which is pretty worth it.
-
Could someone hook me up with a stunt that moves the dodging trapping to presence?
-
If you want some powers, I suggest one thing: Emissary of Power. You get +1 to ALL social rolls when the target is in the know. Now, you'd have to fit it in, but that isn't always difficult (or easy, to be honest).
Also, I wouldn't add dodging to Presence. It doesn't fit. Maybe add it to Deceit ('Feint' or 'Now You See Me...'), but not Presence.
-
Here is my character build I would like some opinions on it.
The concept behind the character is a rich and powerful politician that is in the know.
Skills
(+5) Superb: Contacts
(+4) Great: Resources, Presence, Rapport
(+3) Good: Discipline, Empathy, Deceit
(+2) Fair: Guns, Alertness, Weapons
(+1) Average: Fists, Driving, Intimidation
Stunts/Powers
[-1] Feint – Just when they think they caught you they thought wrong. The Dodge trapping is moved to Deceit.
[-2] Disciplined Body And Mind – Your control of self is perfect. Your Mental and Physical stress tracks are determined by your Discipline.
[-1] Wealth Beyond Imagination – When buying something that is perceived as difficult to acquire or incredibly expensive add +2 to your Resources.
[-1] Absolute Authority – You are used to being in charge and have lots of authority. When acting in a known position of power add +2 to your Contacts.
[-1] The Weight Of Reputation – As of the Book.
[-1] Lush Lifestyle – As of the Book.
[-1] Windfall – As of the Book.
[-1] Paranoid? Probaby - As of the Book.
[+2] Pure Mortal Rebate
Remaining Refresh: 3
Stress Tracks:
Mental: OOOO
Physical: OOOO
Social: OOOO
The -2 Stunts Disciplined Mind and Body is simply two stunts combined for the sake of ease.Its perfectly in accordance with the rules and if necessary for you nitpickers I can separate them into two different stunts.
-
Drop Conviction (or else, why do you have a stunt that lets discipline fill its most vital purpose?), Drop either weapons or fists, and drop athletics. Then bump either Rapport or Deceit up by one rank.
As it is, this character isn't really much of a social tank, but more of heavy social support. You need a social skill that can attack and defend reliably before you can call it a tank. Rapport is the best for this, but Deceit is pretty useful as well.
As is, your character will do awesome at gathering information and supplies, but be somewhat lackluster at winning big arguments, or convincing important people to do as he says. He'll still be better at these things than most PC's, but he could get stomped on when facing an NPC that specializes in social conflict (like pretty much every Sidhe out there).
Some of your stunts seem a bit wishy-washy, but I'll pass those over. It'll be whichever GM you have's job to focus the stunts towards whats appropriate for whatever game he ends up in.
-
I updated the build with your suggestions Luminos, and I added the stunt Paranoid? Probably to boost my ability to not get killed by an ambush.
And the point of Contacts as an Apex skill is to represent his position as a United States Senator and a powerful and influential one at that.The point is so I can roll Contacts to send in a SWAT Team if I so desire, call in an Airstrike, or (supplimented by Resources) hire mercs to be bodyguards or whatever I need them for.I am going to hire Kincaid for a couple scenes if he so lets me ;)
-
This guy is presumably a Pure Mortal. The advantage of a Pure Mortal is that he has 2 more Refresh, but is limited to taking only stunts. Powers that overlap with stunts are often more cost efficient, thus get those stunts that are not replicated by a Power. Having a possible massively large pool of Fate Points without being heavily compelled is the Pure Mortal's competitive edge.
When I build a Pure Mortal, I take only 2 stunts and leave the rest as Fate points and have as many heavily positive Aspects as I can. Optimally, he should be left with only the Trouble to compel the character. So while the GM is left with little to compel my character with, my character still has a large pool of Fate points to alpha strike when he deems it necessary.
My opinion would be to try to drop as many stunts as you can to free up Fate Points. Go into Social Full Defense and then... unload the heavy ordance once you have lined up the Aspects. One single knockout hit to overwhelm the 4th social stress point and overflow the consequences. Rapport (possibly modified by Resources) + 10 invoked/tagged Aspects. Maybe the no-stat fellas can take that hit.
-
Compels are what make games interesting, why is lack of compels a good thing?
Truth by told I will be self compelling his aspect Natural Born Politician as often as possible for Fate Point generation
-
Compels are what make games interesting, why is lack of compels a good thing?
Truth by told I will be self compelling his aspect Natural Born Politician as often as possible for Fate Point generation
Self-compelling is good because you are in control of the timing, you can self-compel to catch your GM flatfooted, you do it when you are ready but your GM is not.
I do not think that compels themselves make games interesting. Compels are simply a tool, it can also be used to make the game a pain and a drain on your resources.
-
True - but your being paid for such pains its not as if you are not getting anything for it.
Same thing for when you concede with the number of consequences you are forced to take.
-
I think quibbling over whether it's you or the GM who's doing the compelling creates an antagonistic (or at least oppositional) relationship that I feel shouldn't be there in DFRPG. this is a collaborative game. The GM and the player both should want the same thing - an interesting story.
my opinion, at least.
-
I think quibbling over whether it's you or the GM who's doing the compelling creates an antagonistic (or at least oppositional) relationship that I feel shouldn't be there in DFRPG. this is a collaborative game. The GM and the player both should want the same thing - an interesting story.
my opinion, at least.
This sums up my own thoughts to a T.
-
True - but your being paid for such pains its not as if you are not getting anything for it.
Same thing for when you concede with the number of consequences you are forced to take.
But the point is not whether you are being paid for it or not. It is whether you are ready for it, or not.
The GM and the player both should want the same thing - an interesting story.
But what makes an interesting story may be different from person to person. Which is why the player has the ability to buy off compels with Fate points.
-
Here is my updated build.
Character Name: Nathan McTeir
High Concept: Fae Raised Politician
Background: Nathan was born into an extremely powerful and influential family. Consequentially he went to all the best schools, wore the best clothes, and generally lived better then pretty much anyone you care to name. What was generally not known to most however is that his family going back atleast five generations has been really close to the Summer Court. From the day he was born he had the sidhe coming and going to his house as often as you please. It is they who really taught him how to deal with others and become the politician he is today.
Phase Aspect: Born Of Wealth and Privilege
Rising Action: In fact he even went to Harvard Law School and graduated with top honors, which he then used combined with his family’s power to become a politician of notable power. During his time in school he made lots of friends with his natural charisma including several future judges, top ranking officials in the Pentagon, and even the current President of the United States. Of coarse one can’t make an omelet without breaking a few eggs and while he definitely made friends he also gathered his fair share of enemies, mostly being upper members of the FBI and a handful of Congressmen. They would be there to make trouble for him for years to come.
Phase Aspect: Friends (And Enemies) In High Places
Rising Conflict: Friends (And Enemies) In High Places
Guest Starring: Billy Goat's Got my Back
Guest Starring Redux: Trolls... Why'd It Have to be Trolls!?
Group Adventure: Cause I'm a … Suuuuper Genius!
Skills
(+5) Superb: Contacts, Rapport
(+4) Great: Resources, Presence
(+3) Good: Discipline, Deceit
(+2) Fair: Empathy, Guns, Alertness
(+1) Average: Lore, Stealth, Fists, Weapons, Fist
Powers/Stunts
[-1] Feint - Just when they think they caught you they thought wrong. The Dodge trapping is moved to Deceit.
[-2] Disciplined Body And Mind - Your control of self is perfect. Your Mental and Physical stress tracks are determined by your Discipline.
[-1] Wealth Beyond Imagination - When buying something that is perceived as difficult to acquire or incredibly expensive add +2 to your Resources.
[-1] Lush Lifestyle - As of the Book.
[-1] The Boss - People do what you say. Add a new trapping to contacts, called Employment. You may use this trapping to find obedient subordinates when you take this stunt.
[-1] Minions - You have some loyal henchmen. You may use your Contacts to declare that they are present at any time, with a difficulty determined by the situation and the quality of your henchmen.
[-1] Good Employees Are Easy To Find – You Have a knack for finding talented and skillful subordinates. Add two to your Contacts skill when attempting to get new employees.
[-1] Look At This From My Perspective - You are a master of getting people to see things from your point of view.Add +2 to your Rapport when trying to get people to agree with you.
[-1] Master Of Small Talk - You are a master of Small Talk.Add +2 to your Rapport skill when using the Social Defense Trapping.
[+2] Pure Mortal Rebate
Remaining Refresh: 1
Stress Track:
Mental: OOOO
Physical: OOOO
Social: OOOO
-
Can I get some feedback on this latest incarnation of this character?
-
Well, the character looks pretty good, and it makes me happy to see someone using stunts from the Homebrew Stunts thread. But there are a few things that could be improved.
1. You have only spent 34 of the 35 skill points available to you.
2. The Social Defense trapping is already part of the Rapport skill, so the Defense Via Small Talk stunt is unecessary.
3. There are a few typos. There is no apostrophe in "employees", there should be a space after the first period in the description of the Master Of Small Talk and Defence Via Small Talk stunts, and the word "have" should not be capitalized in the description of the Good Employees Are Easy To Find stunt.
4. I don't think that 'Coersionist" is a good name for a stunt. Not only does it sound violent and brutal, it's spelled oddly and might not even be a word.
5. "As of the Book" is an ugly phrase and I'm not sure that the word "book" ought to be capitalized. It's clear what you mean, though.
6. It is not clear what the Wealth Beyond Imagination stunt applies to.
7. There should only be one space between Lore and Stealth in your skill list.
Alright, that's enough nitpicking. Now for some ordinary advice. You have a lot of stunts and not much refresh. I would probably drop Disciplined Body and Mind and buy Conviction and Endurance at Average.
PS: Do you mind if I steal some of your stunts for the Homebrew Stunts thread?
-
1) Go ahead and steal the stunts for the Homebrew Stunts thread, and actually
2) Social Defense is apart of Empathy, its not listed as a part of Rapport which is why I have the stunt there.
3) What would you recommend in place of Coersionist?
4.) Will fix those in next draft.
5) *rolls eyes*
6) Adds +2 for the Buying Things trapping of Resources.
7) Will fix that next draft.
-
2) Social Defense is apart of Empathy, its not listed as a part of Rapport which is why I have the stunt there.
YS 138 begs to differ, as does YS 129. Basically, it's listed in both places for different reasons.
-
Thanks for the stunts, Tbora. Sorry if I went a bit overboard on the nitpicking.
I would recommend a name like "Look At This From My Perspective" or "Extremely Persuasive" for Coersionist. Something a bit more friendly.
-
Tbora, how do you personally feel about using so much refresh on stunts? That's the only advice I would give a player who brought this to me as an ST. While I am not opposed to stunts, I often also limit my pure mortals to 2-3 stunts that I know will be used multiple times per session.
Like others said, I'll let you and your ST decide about the stunts. Like, I wouldn't really even let a player move dodge to deceit, even if it is perfectly acceptable by the books.
-
I see stunts and the sheer amount they can get to be the way Pure Mortals can compete with Wizards, White Court Vamps, Knights Of The Cross, and Wereforms.
I see nothing wrong with assigning them as many of them as the player wants, and further more would rather quit a game then have a GM who would limit what I can and cannot do with MY character so long as it does not break game balance.
And as for the Deceit stunt, if that is what I as a player wants and its plausible and by the mechanics legal then I expect the GM to keep his mouth shut.
-
I see stunts and the sheer amount they can get to be the way Pure Mortals can compete with Wizards, White Court Vamps, Knights Of The Cross, and Wereforms.
I see nothing wrong with assigning them as many of them as the player wants, and further more would rather quit a game then have a GM who would limit what I can and cannot do with MY character so long as it does not break game balance.
And as for the Deceit stunt, if that is what I as a player wants and its plausible and by the mechanics legal then I expect the GM to keep his mouth shut.
I totally agree about the stunts; as an ST I would never limit the amount someone could take. My group is very... optimized? efficient? and so they really want to look at, "is this stunt a worthwhile investment for me", almost a bit over "does this better define my character?" And the advice that luminos gave is fairly solid, and how my group thinks, but it's not for everyone. However, a bunch of fate points is a significant advantage for a mortal. As an ST, I would feel obligated to point that out, and make sure to ask the player (as i did you) how (s)he felt about taking so many stunts versus leaving fate points open. I didn't mean to imply that I thought they should be limited.
As for the deceit stunt, it's not really legal/illegal by mechanics, so it's completely fair for the GM to question it. In fact, the mechanics dictate that there be a bit of back and forth between the players and the GM to settle on such a thing. Reading over the example on 147YS, where the player wants to transplant dodge to guns, the GM offers two conditions: the first is that it only works when the character has a gun close at hand, the other is that it only applies to ranged attacks. So by the book, transplanting dodge deserves a limiting condition.
My real concern with it is that it allows deceit to pull double duty for defense, defending both physical and social, and that it appears without a limiting condition. Now, the limiting condition need not be very restrictive (as above, requiring a character who has invested 5 skill ranks in guns to have the gun on-hand while dodging... not really limited). But, as it stands, your character could be giving a speech, and someone shoots at him, and he defends with... deceit? It conceptually makes little sense there. I get what you are saying about feinting (and I read where someone else suggested it as more appropriate than, say, presence)... but I still don't really see it. If I was the GM, i would probably just ask for a restriction that you must either be moving or have moved in the last turn, or for you to come up with some equivalent justification. Hell, if you'd described your character as always moving, or constantly fidgeting, maybe with something like that as an aspect, I wouldn't ask for any more justification.
I'm not trying to argue or persuade you, just trying to offer an opinion on why that may not be as rules-solid as it first seem. It certainly doesn't break the game, but it is perhaps more overpowered than -1 stunts.
-
As a GM, I'd be very, very, very leery about allowing social skills to cover physical skills and vice versa. Some stunts make sense and some stunts don't make sense and to me, deceit taking the dodge trapping of athletics is in the grey area between, leaning towards not making much sense at all. If anything, I might throw a restriction on there that it only works while the character is keeping an open dialogue (or monologue if the opponent isn't willing) with the person they're defending against.