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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: sireric08 on September 27, 2010, 07:29:16 AM

Title: Alternate Focus Items
Post by: sireric08 on September 27, 2010, 07:29:16 AM
Ok, so I am starting a game where I'm playing a wizard.  The concept is that he was raised in a long standing White Council family, then broke away from them after he passed his tests and eschewed magic for years thereafter.  He's now being drawn back into the wizarding life, and is making his focus items from scratch.  The idea I have is that he is used to going into public places, and doesn't want to be conspicuous with staff/wand.  I was thinking cloth wraps for an item, basically long strips of silk with runes etched onto them.  The other idea I was having was tattoos.  Would that be too cheesy, since they would be basically un-removeable?
Title: Re: Alternate Focus Items
Post by: Belial666 on September 27, 2010, 09:47:34 AM
They wouldn't be unremovable, just more painful to remove.
Title: Re: Alternate Focus Items
Post by: Papa Gruff on September 27, 2010, 11:10:23 AM
Also take notice that there is a power limit to focus and enchanted items that is tied to their size (YW 281).

Depending on where the tats are, as a GM i would drastically limit the power they can have. For example: If the enchanted tattoos could be covered by clothes constantly then I'd consider them a small Item, that can't take more then 1-2 focus item slots or 1-4 enchanted item slots. A large (glowing? *g*) facial tattoo would be able to take more as it is far more obvious and so on ...

Long strips of rune lined silk? No problem there. Would probably count as fist sized, witch can store a lot of energy. More then you need for an starting character in any case.
Title: Re: Alternate Focus Items
Post by: Wordmaker on September 27, 2010, 11:45:40 AM
I like the run-enscribed silk cloth idea. Very cool.

As for the tatoos, there are a couple of issues there. The first is that, as Papa Gruff said, size governs the amount of storeable power.

Secondly, tatoos aren't really items that can be dropped, lost, etc. If you take the Order of St. Giles tatoos as your baseline, they would have to be a power. The St. Giles tatoos are basically a focus/enchanted item that makes it easier to control Hunger.

I'd be inclined to build magical tatoos as a description of Refinement, myself.
Title: Re: Alternate Focus Items
Post by: Belial666 on September 27, 2010, 11:50:13 AM
For a starting character, hidden tattoos should be enough. Usually, max for a standard wizard would be +2 offensive power +2 offensive control so one hidden tattoo in each hand. If you are submerged and take 2 refinements, one to raise element specialization to +2 control, +1 power, and one to raise foci to +3 offensive power, +3 offensive control, you can have your thaumaturgy free specialization be a focus specialization, allowing your foci to have a bonus 1 higher than normal for the same size.


And that would make your submerged wizard into human artillery; 9 power, 10 control for offense, 6 power, 7 control for defense.
Title: Re: Alternate Focus Items
Post by: Papa Gruff on September 27, 2010, 12:06:50 PM
And that would make your submerged wizard into human artillery; 9 power, 10 control for offense, 6 power, 7 control for defense.

Care to give me the page where it says that you automatically get the +1 on any item if you choose focus items as you thaumaturgy specialization? As I understood it you are just able to get the bonus, but not get it automatically meaning that you still have to pay with focus points. I might be wrong though, hence the request for the page.

Your artillery example is probably as min-/maxed as it gets. I'm not saying that it isn't a proper stating, it just leaves a character so dependent on his magic. Such high power spell slingers are just a bit to vulnerable in anything but a kaboom magic fight. As a GM I usually try to "punish" this by destroying the PC in social conflicts from time to time. Just saying ... overspecialization will bite your ass in this system, more then in any other one I have played so far. 
Title: Re: Alternate Focus Items
Post by: Belial666 on September 27, 2010, 12:24:21 PM
Not an automatic bonus. A submerged wizard (7 refresh) with 2 refinements (natural progression for most wizards).
All item slots go to foci, one refinement goes to foci, the other goes to element specialization. Total of 6 focus slots (+3/+3 offense), plus a specilazation of +2 control/+1 power for, say, spirit and a +1 focus specialization. The focus specialization just allows him to cram a +3 bonus into the smaller available focus size so it can easily be hidden (represented by tattoo foci) - it doesn't give a numerical bonus.




Also note that this is far from being as min-maxed as it gets. A really min-maxed character would have an Item of Power such as a wizard's staff or book of shadows or robes of the archmage that gave +3 refinement with +2 cost reduction so he would get even more magical power at 1 less cost. And he would take "A Few Seconds Ahead" with that last refresh so he could use his Lore (it would be high) to see into the future and prepare, effectively using it as defense against all Physical and Social attacks and maneuvers, stopping possible physical or social reamings cold.
EDIT: Naturally, such approaches should be dealt with by the DM. A wizard that can do 10 power 11 control attacks and has superb defenses for everything might unbalance the group.
Title: Re: Alternate Focus Items
Post by: Papa Gruff on September 27, 2010, 12:36:02 PM
Granted. It might not be as far as it gets when it comes to min-/maxing, but it is hardly far from it ;) .

Back to topic now: There already has been an other thread where tattoos as focus/enchanted items have been discussed at great length. Perhaps it helps or will give you some more ideas: http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,19438.0.html (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,19438.0.html)
Title: Re: Alternate Focus Items
Post by: sireric08 on October 06, 2010, 01:48:30 AM
Now, another idea I had was for his main attack item.  I figured his elements would be spirit, water, and earth.  The main attack rote he has is a magnetic based where he grabs a bunch of specially prepared coins/shards of metal and blasts them at whoever.  Increase in shifts would represent higher velocity's of the metal.  I was thinking of having each of the shards prepared as a minature focus item, all adding up to onne big one.  How much do you think I would have make the total mass of metal to have it count as normal +1 focus item?
Title: Re: Alternate Focus Items
Post by: MijRai on October 06, 2010, 02:39:10 AM
My opinion on 'alternate focus items' follows a simple rule.
Can you carry it? If Yes, It Can Be a Foci. Now, size rules how much of a foci it can be.

As far as magical tattoos, I'd say if they are obvious they are fine.
Title: Re: Alternate Focus Items
Post by: Sanctaphrax on October 06, 2010, 02:55:39 AM
A ring is an acceptable +1 focus item. Don't worry about the mass of metal.
Title: Re: Alternate Focus Items
Post by: luminos on October 06, 2010, 03:16:07 AM

Also note that this is far from being as min-maxed as it gets. A really min-maxed character would have an Item of Power such as a wizard's staff or book of shadows or robes of the archmage that gave +3 refinement with +2 cost reduction so he would get even more magical power at 1 less cost.

Thankfully, refinement is not one of the standard options for IoP's. 
Title: Re: Alternate Focus Items
Post by: Richard_Chilton on October 06, 2010, 05:21:00 AM
There's a book called A Madness of Angels that has the perfect counter for any "I've got this magic tattooed on me" concept.

Spoiler for a non-Dresden book:
(click to show/hide)

Richard
Title: Re: Alternate Focus Items
Post by: Lanodantheon on October 20, 2010, 09:07:36 PM
My personal favorite focus items/Enchanted items for an incognito mage come from Wynn, a Co-Founder of the E.c.e.es, an occult organization of self-taught Sorcerous I.T. people, engineers and gamers in my Seattle Campaign. These 3 items are really small, I still haven't figured out a really good big item. 

Note: the baliwick of this caster comes from the fact that he's a gamer with a PhD in Engineering Science, an ability called Mnemosyne's Shadow that lets him use his Lore Skill to get Answers and that he has 30 minor talents with similar levels of education and a lot of tools to help him. When he's out on a job, Wynn dresses like a Cable Guy, so he will have items that don't stand out.

Earth Magic Shoes/Boots: They have sigils on the soles so it is almost impossible to spot anything amiss. They put a spring in the wearer's step, absorbing gravity energy. It cna then be unleashed with a big stomp. You could probably get more slots out of it if you made them Steel-toed work boots.

The Pen Mightier: Could be used for focus or enchanted items only 1 slot big, but no one is going to look twice at a pen.

Contact Lenses/Glasses: Make the sigils small enough and they just look normal. Paint them titanium colored and no one looks twice.


I'd also recommend a Gauntlet disguised as a Caste for some extra space.
Title: Re: Alternate Focus Items
Post by: ralexs1991 on October 21, 2010, 07:35:09 PM
i really like the contact lenses/glasses idea
Title: Re: Alternate Focus Items
Post by: MijRai on October 21, 2010, 08:19:52 PM
I wouldn't do contacts, but glasses would be a great foci. Maybe a Divination focus, or one for Veils. Glasses, preventing vision. Almost an oxymoron.
Title: Re: Alternate Focus Items
Post by: Hoyled on October 22, 2010, 01:11:46 AM
Another good incognito focus could be a wristwatch with the runes marked on the underside of the watch.
Title: Re: Alternate Focus Items
Post by: trubrujah on October 22, 2010, 01:21:38 AM
I caution you on the tattoos.  I'll tell you the same thing I told a buddy of mine who wanted tattoo focus items.  Reread the dresden files and you may notice a few instances where Harry overloads his foci and they explode.  Now imagine that instead of a wand, its your arm.  You could do it, but it's a bad idea.  Someone else mentioned the idea for refinement, and I think you could even do it as an enchanted item without it becoming a problem.
Title: Re: Alternate Focus Items
Post by: sinker on October 22, 2010, 06:24:11 AM
Of note canes are pretty inconspicuous. Also no one's going to think poorly of you if you carry a bookbag full of books. You just have to think of things you might be carrying on you anyway. One of my friends played a blind caster with a folding cane for a focus. No one was willing to take it away.
Title: Re: Alternate Focus Items
Post by: Tsunami on October 22, 2010, 11:38:47 AM
I caution you on the tattoos.  I'll tell you the same thing I told a buddy of mine who wanted tattoo focus items.  Reread the dresden files and you may notice a few instances where Harry overloads his foci and they explode.  Now imagine that instead of a wand, its your arm.  You could do it, but it's a bad idea.  Someone else mentioned the idea for refinement, and I think you could even do it as an enchanted item without it becoming a problem.

The Focus item Exploding is simply a case of transferring backlash that would have created a a consequence into destroying the focus.
Instead of taking a consequence, you loose your focus item.

So if you have your arm as a focus item it would be described as an injury, but not impose a compellable aspect. That would be the equivalent of loosing a focus item.

Though I'd see it as one of the drawbacks of Tattoos as Foci that you cannot shift backlash into the destruction of the item and always have to take a consequence. I't would balance the tattoos a bit against removable foci.
Title: Re: Alternate Focus Items
Post by: Lanodantheon on October 23, 2010, 08:08:33 PM
Exploding Foci....I never thought of that...

Well I just thought of other Focus items for the incognito sorcerer/wizard going off the "Wrist watch" idea.

Electronics. I'm not talking about magitech or some crap...I mean a focus or enchanted item in the shape, size, and appearance of a common piece of electronics. Because an electronic at its core is just a bunch of metal, wires and circuitboards inside of a bunch of metal and/or plastic. Ti blend, these items don't need to be working electronics, they just need to look the part.

Let's take a Cellphone. you could get like 2 slots out of that easy, 3-4 if you made it out of a cheap, bigger knockoff phone. The 80's "Portable Phone" could make for a lasting rod easy, though it would stand out unless you passed it off as "Retro" by using a Hot Topic Sticker. It doesn't need to be able to make calls, it just needs to look like a phone. Take a dead phone, rip the guts out of it with a screwdriver, make with the magic, reseal, voila!

Laptops could be made into Foci too, since they can get big and cumbersome. Rip the guts out of an older one or one of the "Semi-rugged" computers the Army and Police use that can survive after getting run over by a car...multiple times. You'd have a focus that no one would look at twice and if you were familiar with technology before you got your power back, it would be related.

Hell...make something out of a portable gaming system. A Summoner with her trusty Gameboy to someone Fairies like they're Pokemon...yarg!

You want other incoginto foci, look around your area right this minute. Book, chair, shoes, beer mug, cooking supplies.
Title: Re: Alternate Focus Items
Post by: Kaldra on October 23, 2010, 08:30:37 PM
ok looking around me atm yields:

metal drinking bottle: i think you could carve runes on the inside without to much work and fill it with a potion or booze... speaking of which
hip flask
many many college text books: replace the pages, they are bigenough to justify a bit focus or enchanted item
V for Vendetta mask: not inconspicuous but i dont think i could resist using it if i had powers
acoustic guitar: have the runes scribed on the inside or up and down the neck for a wicked awesome look. great for a bard theme.

and last but not least

Back Pack no one looks at them and you can have you hands free while using.
Title: Re: Alternate Focus Items
Post by: ralexs1991 on October 27, 2010, 03:38:49 PM
Quote
You want other incoginto foci, look around your area right this minute. Book, chair, shoes, beer mug, cooking supplies.

love the idea

um i spy with my little eye (haha just kidding)

skateboard: you could carve runes onto that and easily pass it off as art or something like that  haha :P 

umbrelle: would make a great wand or staff if big enough just carve runes on the metal rod part

baseball bat: just like the umbrelle it would make a great incognito foci just carve runes on the handle and cover it up with grip tape or don't and call artistic liscene :)
Title: Re: Alternate Focus Items
Post by: Kaldra on October 28, 2010, 08:31:40 AM
an odd thought just struck me, do you need to "hold" or can you just be in contact to your focus item? i ask because my friend reminded me of my fiberglass armor inserts i make to go in jacket linings for people who want to paint ball while looking stylish, or not get jabbed in the side in the lunch lines.
Title: Re: Alternate Focus Items
Post by: MWKilduff on October 29, 2010, 01:32:00 AM
As far as I have read you just need to be in possession of the item.  So, anything you wear, hold, possess, or even just have touching you would work just fine as an enchantment or focus.  I mean the people in the previous posts are quite correct.  Just look around and use what you have.  I mean in arms reach of me I have a nail kit, bottle opener, lighter, inhaler, every gaming prop you could think of, and a butterfly knife.  Then think about what you wear on a regular basis such as hoodies, beanies, belts, boots, and jewelry.  And, let us not forget the silly things we own and use such as supersoakers, paintballs guns, and all the gear for such games.
Title: Re: Alternate Focus Items
Post by: Kaldra on October 29, 2010, 06:26:31 AM
yaha! some one else who has a butterfly knife, with what would you enchant it?
Title: Re: Alternate Focus Items
Post by: Becq on October 29, 2010, 07:29:45 AM
I tend to think that focus items need to be 'brandished' in some way.  Consider how Dresden always shakes out his shield bracelet before use, for example, despite the fact that it is 'worn', and how the hand with the bracelet provides the focal point for the defense spells.  This is even more clear with the staff and blasting rod, which actually act as a conduit for the spell; having them slung over your shoulder just "wouldn't work".
Title: Re: Alternate Focus Items
Post by: Kaldra on October 29, 2010, 07:33:45 AM
what about a backpack?
Title: Re: Alternate Focus Items
Post by: MWKilduff on October 29, 2010, 11:14:53 AM
yaha! some one else who has a butterfly knife, with what would you enchant it?

Hadn't really thought about it.  But, I think I would go with a couple of basic ideas.  Either use it as an enchanted item and have it send out a blade of force as an attack like Dresden's rings except have it focused like a blade edge.  You could use the attack as either a standard attack or to do things like a trip maneuver with the blade of force the item creates.  Or, you could use it as a air focus.  But I would like to figure out a way to give you a temporary access to inhuman speed as part of the air aspect.
Title: Re: Alternate Focus Items
Post by: Ranma1558 on November 01, 2010, 04:35:02 PM
To take a page from the TV show ( I know, I'm a heretic) drumstick for a wand a hockey stick for a staff. The drumstick is one of my favorite foci idea, imagine seeing a pair of drumsticks on some guy's backpack, would you ever think about it?
Title: Re: Alternate Focus Items
Post by: Lanodantheon on November 01, 2010, 07:22:29 PM
To take a page from the TV show ( I know, I'm a heretic) drumstick for a wand a hockey stick for a staff. The drumstick is one of my favorite foci idea, imagine seeing a pair of drumsticks on some guy's backpack, would you ever think about it?

Nothing wrong with that. I have PCs and NPCs who use those.

And my campaign has an organization who actually make Hockey Sticks of Doom....for the right price.
Title: Re: Alternate Focus Items
Post by: ralexs1991 on November 02, 2010, 01:30:04 PM
Nothing wrong with that. I have PCs and NPCs who use those.

And my campaign has an organization who actually make Hockey Sticks of Doom....for the right price.

that gives me a good idea for a wizard hockey player =)
Title: Re: Alternate Focus Items
Post by: MyNinjaH8sU on November 02, 2010, 01:42:54 PM
that gives me a good idea for a wizard hockey player =)

Every time he scores and gets excited the Scoreboard explodes?
Title: Re: Alternate Focus Items
Post by: ralexs1991 on November 02, 2010, 02:46:20 PM
it would make for a funny compel  :D