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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: EroGaki on September 06, 2010, 09:45:38 AM

Title: Sidhe Knight of Santa
Post by: EroGaki on September 06, 2010, 09:45:38 AM: So I noticed that the entry on more sidhe knights in Our World listed Santa Claus as a Wyldfae. After having a good laugh (even though it said not to laugh ;D) I decided that it might be a fun character to play. So I need some advice on a few things:

1. What kind of mojo would the Christmas Knight have?

2. Exactly what does Santa Claus do? Besides christmas gifts, I mean. Exactly what is his domain? Using the Erlking as an example, he does the wild hunt and controls the spirits of hunters. What does Santa do?

3. How do you play such a character without it becoming a huge joke? I mean, Santa? Really?

My GM is just as flabbergasted as I am, although he shares my enthusiasm about the idea of being the Christmas Knight. I could really use some advice. Thanks :)
Title: Re: Sidhe Knight of Santa
Post by: arsieiuni on September 06, 2010, 10:02:18 AM: Not trying to spoil your fun...
But if you'd like a REALLY good idea of what Santa might actually be... Go look up the Norse legends and read about Odin.
All the myths about Santa originated in Odin and his "Wild Hunt" which rides over the Yuletide...
You can find info on this easily by googling. Srsly. :)
Title: Re: Sidhe Knight of Santa
Post by: babel2uk on September 06, 2010, 10:16:47 AM: I have someone in my game playing a Changeling who claims allegience to the Court of Santa, as a method of avoiding recruitment by the other courts. I've made him fully aware that there's a chance that if he makes too big a thing of it the real 'Santa' may come calling on him to enforce that allegience.

While I haven't in all honesty decided on specifics, there are a few things I'm toying with....

The character of Santa can actually be heavilly linked to the character of Puck the Trickster (Puck even has the characteristic 'Ho, Ho, Ho' laugh).

I'm leaning towards the view that the actual Santa is portrayed as being kindly, generous and generally good natured, because you really don't want to annoy him. In fact, it may be that the truth is so horrible that he's effectively been bound deep in the Never Never to prevent him from rampaging across the world. (Think along the lines of the image of him portrayed by Jack in 'The Nightmare Before Christmas' when he's trying to sell Christmas to the inhabitants of Halloween).

As arsieiuni says, the Odin/Erl King connection is a valid interpretation -
(click to show/hide)
though that does clash with established separate characters in the Dresden-verse - it could be one or the other though
. It's not unlikely that the rumour of a fourth powerful unaligned Faerie powerbase holds some degree of truth. Maybe he's the fabled Faerie King, and the Mothers keep him bound away while the Faerie Courts tried to diminish him by virtue of spreading a false portrayal. Which also gives a potential plot line for the weakening of the containment with the destruction of the Spring and Autumn Courts (assuming of course they ever existed). In this case the Knight may well be a sort of Black Ops type who is intent on destabilising the remaining courts.
Title: Re: Sidhe Knight of Santa
Post by: Ala Alba on September 06, 2010, 02:44:45 PM: DMW wrote up a character like that. You might be able to find it somewhere in the PBP sub-forum.
Title: Re: Sidhe Knight of Santa
Post by: AcornArmy on September 06, 2010, 03:27:55 PM: Surprisingly, as of yesterday's interview with Jim at DragonCon, we have now been told that
(click to show/hide)
Santa Claus is actually a king of the Winter fae
. Seriously. The post is over here (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,15366.msg916496.html#msg916496).
Title: Re: Sidhe Knight of Santa
Post by: Mal_Luck on September 06, 2010, 06:49:46 PM: Quote from: Ala Alba on September 06, 2010, 02:44:45 PM
DMW wrote up a character like that. You might be able to find it somewhere in the PBP sub-forum.
Linked (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,19523.msg867576.html#msg867576)for convenience.
Title: Re: Sidhe Knight of Santa
Post by: CBIrish on September 06, 2010, 07:42:20 PM: I love this thread!

I never even considered a Chirstmas Knight. Really makes you want to end up on the 'Nice' list, huh?

But this raises a question I've had since Summer Knight was published - what about Oberon? I mean, he was a major figure in faerie lore but we haven't heard anything about him (or Puck for that matter). Obviously he's been mentioned here in the forums, but is anyone aware of any 'official' stance on Oberon?

I have to admit - my favorite forum concept so far places the Erlking as the former Autumn King and implies Oberon as the former Spring King with their respective Courts dissolving at some point in the past. As someone who is playing a changeling with certain ties to Oberon (and Puck) I'm interested to hear if anything has been set down.
Title: Re: Sidhe Knight of Santa
Post by: Chlorofiend on September 07, 2010, 02:56:20 AM: Ah, yes, the Christmas Knight...the guy Santa Claus sends when he needs someone killed. :o
Title: Re: Sidhe Knight of Santa
Post by: EroGaki on September 07, 2010, 04:03:07 AM: Wow! That spoiler raises all sorts of questions! I'm absolutely flabbergasted by the implications.

With this news, it is tempting to give the Christmas Knight the Unseelie Magic and call it a day. But somehow, that doesn't sit right with me; I'm certain their would be some differences between how Santa works and the other Winter fae.
Title: Re: Sidhe Knight of Santa
Post by: FangGrip on September 07, 2010, 08:23:15 PM: Another idea, spoiler aside, is to use elements from Terry Pratchett's Hogfather.

Not a cleaned up kiddie version of Santa that you would find in most stories or movies. Blood, sweat, and pork. Very visceral.
Title: Re: Sidhe Knight of Santa
Post by: Richard_Chilton on September 07, 2010, 08:48:11 PM: Maybe Seelie and Unseelie magic both need to be broken up?

As in there's the Seelie magic of the Queen and the Seelie magic of the King, each side emphasizing other aspects of the season. One side acting from the Woman magic prospective and the other from male magic. Some cultures broke their view of magic along those lines.

Which means the Queens have their Knights and the Kings might have theirs. Are there three Kings, one, of a handful of them? We don't know yet, but I think we could see a parallel court system.

Richard
Title: Re: Sidhe Knight of Santa
Post by: Kodiakc on September 08, 2010, 06:04:31 PM: mmm where would Krampus fit into this mix? ;D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krampus

by the by I love this idea!
Title: Re: Sidhe Knight of Santa
Post by: DFJunkie on September 08, 2010, 06:40:45 PM: Hell, Krampus could be the Christmas Knight. He's big and scary and watches Santa's back.

I'm strongly considering making my Knight of the Sword character try to take Santa out. After all, the church cannot be happy about a Unseelie Fae getting all that delicious belief on their dime.
Title: Re: Sidhe Knight of Santa
Post by: Tbora on September 08, 2010, 06:52:50 PM: In that confrontation you lose, a peer and near equal of Mab that is Plot Devicey as they come.
Title: Re: Sidhe Knight of Santa
Post by: DFJunkie on September 08, 2010, 06:55:50 PM: Quote
In that confrontation you lose, a peer and near equal of Mab that is Plot Devicey as they come.

Getting so tired of that refrain.
Title: Re: Sidhe Knight of Santa
Post by: Becq on September 08, 2010, 09:13:28 PM: I think it's clear that Santa Claus is the Summer King -- he just needed a job in the off-season... ;D
Title: Re: Sidhe Knight of Santa
Post by: Tbora on September 08, 2010, 09:39:42 PM: Santa is Winter King and the Erlking is Summer ~ we have WOJ on this.
Title: Re: Sidhe Knight of Santa
Post by: Wordmaker on September 09, 2010, 11:09:57 AM: Perhaps St. Nicholas was a well-known Knight of Santa, which led to the association between the two as the same character?
Title: Re: Sidhe Knight of Santa
Post by: EroGaki on September 09, 2010, 11:12:48 AM: I just had a thought: each of the faerie courts has only one knight. And now that we know that Santa is the Winter King, wouldn't that invalidate the Christmas Knight idea?
Title: Re: Sidhe Knight of Santa
Post by: DFJunkie on September 09, 2010, 12:26:31 PM: Quote
I just had a thought: each of the faerie courts has only one knight. And now that we know that Santa is the Winter King, wouldn't that invalidate the Christmas Knight idea?

Keep in mind that the Summer and Winter knights are “just” emissaries of power, albeit very well known and probably inordinately badass ones. Also, Santa is not beholden to the Court (I got that from the Spoiler board), and as a relative independent he’s probably able to get away with things that would normally get Mab’s panties in a homicidal bunch.

Assuming that Santa has less power to throw around than the Queens it’s probable that his knight would be similarly limited, but IMO there’s no reason he couldn’t empower a mortal to undertake tasks that his own nature prevents him from attempting.
Title: Re: Sidhe Knight of Santa
Post by: EroGaki on September 09, 2010, 01:12:50 PM: Quote from: DFJunkie on September 09, 2010, 12:26:31 PM
Keep in mind that the Summer and Winter knights are “just” emissaries of power, albeit very well known and probably inordinately badass ones. Also, Santa is not beholden to the Court (I got that from the Spoiler board), and as a relative independent he’s probably able to get away with things that would normally get Mab’s panties in a homicidal bunch.

Assuming that Santa has less power to throw around than the Queens it’s probable that his knight would be similarly limited, but IMO there’s no reason he couldn’t empower a mortal to undertake tasks that his own nature prevents him from attempting.

Could you post a link to the thread? I've not seen much outside of it stating that Santa is the Winter King. I'd love to look at whatever info is floating around out there.
Title: Re: Sidhe Knight of Santa
Post by: DFJunkie on September 09, 2010, 01:29:02 PM: http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,15366.210.html (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,15366.210.html)

The second post down explains the relationships.
Title: Re: Sidhe Knight of Santa
Post by: MorningDarkness on September 10, 2010, 12:08:31 AM: Also, if Erlking is the darker side/representation of summer, then it makes sense that Santa Clause would be the happier fluffy bunny side of winter... *shrug*
Title: Re: Sidhe Knight of Santa
Post by: Tbora on September 10, 2010, 01:35:35 AM: Maggy Sr. should have arranged for Santa to be Harry's Godparent instead of Lea.
Title: Re: Sidhe Knight of Santa
Post by: EroGaki on September 10, 2010, 07:47:46 AM: Quote from: MorningDarkness on September 10, 2010, 12:08:31 AM
Also, if Erlking is the darker side/representation of summer, then it makes sense that Santa Clause would be the happier fluffy bunny side of winter... *shrug*

Which begs the question: what is the fluffy bunny side of winter? Knowing that would help to define Santa's role concerning the balance of Summer and Winter, and the mortal world in extension. In addition, it would also help narrow down the nature of the sponsored magic granted to the Christmas Knight. As of now, I'm kinda clueless.
Title: Re: Sidhe Knight of Santa
Post by: EroGaki on September 10, 2010, 10:37:17 AM: So I've been giving it some thought, and I believe I've come up with some of what Yuletide magic can do:

Cold (being essentially Winter)

Slumber (winter being a time of hibernation and rest)

Travel (Santa is known for his ability to visit every house in the world in one night)

Divination/spying (He knows when you've been sleeping/awake. He knows when you've been bad or good... which very creepy when you think about it)

Infiltration (He essentially breaks into peoples houses)

Protection/Threshold (I'm kinda iffy about this one. Christmas is all about family spending time together, sitting in front of a warm hearth, and living in safety. To me, that implies the power of the threshold, but maybe not... :-\)

Rebirth/Renewal (The celebration of Yule and Winter Solstice was largely about marking the return of the sun and the eventual transition to kinder seasons) (Thanks DFJunkie, for the idea)

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Sidhe Knight of Santa
Post by: luminos on September 10, 2010, 11:02:33 AM: Reading that thread, Santa is NOT a winter king. Rather, he is a king of Wyldefae with origins on the winter side.

Also, saying that he is a peer of Mab is nowhere near saying that he is at Mab's power level. We have WoJ that Erlking is a peer, but way beneath the queens in power.
Title: Re: Sidhe Knight of Santa
Post by: Tbora on September 10, 2010, 12:24:11 PM: Quote from: luminos on September 10, 2010, 11:02:33 AM
Reading that thread, Santa is NOT a winter king. Rather, he is a king of Wyldefae with origins on the winter side.

Also, saying that he is a peer of Mab is nowhere near saying that he is at Mab's power level. We have WoJ that Erlking is a peer, but way beneath the queens in power.

Um yes he is, that is precisely what WOJ says...

Not WAY beneath, he is not as weak as you are implying IMHO I would put him a good bit stronger then Lea but weaker then say Mab.
Title: Re: Sidhe Knight of Santa
Post by: DFJunkie on September 10, 2010, 02:46:06 PM: I think the difficulty here is that some people assume "King of Winter" to mean "In the same heirarchy as Mab, Maeve, and Mother Winter," which is not entirely the case since per Jim Santa is not answerable to Mab (okay, he does what Mama Winter says, but that's more about power than authority). I think "King of Winter" simply means "very powerful Fae of a Winter origin who does not have a direct superior."

Also, you might want to add "Rebirth/Renewal" to the list of things that Santa's Sponsored Magic would be able to accomplish. The celebration of Yule and Winter Solstice was largely about marking the return of the sun and the eventual transition to kinder seasons.
Title: Re: Sidhe Knight of Santa
Post by: Richard_Chilton on September 10, 2010, 04:57:18 PM: Here's the Q/A about the Erlking - which probably applies to Santa. From [urlhttp://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,20960.msg917997.html#msg917997[/url]
(click to show/hide)
Jim: He is wyldfae. He isn't a subject of Mab or Titania. That's what Wyldfae means. But his origins are in the Summer-side of the cycle of seasons, just like Titania's are.

Richard
Title: Re: Sidhe Knight of Santa
Post by: EroGaki on September 11, 2010, 07:38:33 AM: Quote from: DFJunkie on September 10, 2010, 02:46:06 PM

Also, you might want to add "Rebirth/Renewal" to the list of things that Santa's Sponsored Magic would be able to accomplish. The celebration of Yule and Winter Solstice was largely about marking the return of the sun and the eventual transition to kinder seasons.

That's a good point. I'll add that to the list.
Title: Re: Sidhe Knight of Santa
Post by: finnmckool on September 11, 2010, 03:26:18 PM: I would think one of his banes might actually be fact and disbelief. Hence his need for a Knight, whose job would be more to protect Santa, who is mighty except for that one problem where you have to believe in him for him to be able to affect you.