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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Garraffa on September 06, 2010, 02:47:45 AM
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While being really bored today, I decided to write up a character sheet for our friendly neighborhood wall crawler. It didn't take that long, and I could probably do a lot better, but enjoy.
Player Name: Stan Lee
Character Name: Peter Parker
High Concept: Spider-man
Trouble Aspect: "With great power, comes great responsibility."
Aspect One: "I will avenge you Uncle Ben."
Aspect Two: Secret Identity
Aspect Three: In Love with Mary Jane
Aspect Four: Freelance Photographer
Aspect Five: Pun Intended
Skills:
(+5)
Athletics
(+4)
Alertness
Might
Stealth
(+3)
Scholarship
Fists
Endurance
(+2)
Presence
Burglary
Contacts
(+1)
Empathy
Deceit
Rapport
Powers:
Spider Walk -1
Wrist Weapon (Sticky, Long Distance) -3 (I used specs behind Breath Weapon to help create this power.)
Supernatural Sense -1
Supernatural Strength -4
I used a 10 Refresh score to build this character. I bet some things can be changed. Now to see if my GM will let me play as him...
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You have neglected to give one of the most quick reacting, agile characters in the Marvel universe Inhuman or higher Speed. I would call that more central to his character than the strength.
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Also, his Spiderwalk is actually much stronger than you think. I'd have it give him a big boost to Might checks to not be separated from surfaces. Spiderman says all the time that while the surface itself may give way very little can actually separate him from said surface.
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You have neglected to give one of the most quick reacting, agile characters in the Marvel universe Inhuman or higher Speed. I would call that more central to his character than the strength.
You are quite correct. Something I surprisingly overlooked. Perhaps I shall lower the strength to Inhuman and add Inhuman Speed.
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You are quite correct. Something I surprisingly overlooked. Perhaps I shall lower the strength to Inhuman and add Inhuman Speed.
Building a super powered character is tough on the budget of a pulpy urban fantasy character. Spider man -- not the most powerful of super heroes -- is strong enough to throw a car, fast enough to dodge bullets, and tough enough to survive a couple of direct hits from Venom, who can himself throw cars a fair distance.
Tossing a mid sized car one zone is Might 13. Using it as a weapon is higher. That means Mythic Strength combined with a goodish Might.
Spider Man is quicker than he is strong by a good margin. Mythic Speed would therefore be the minimum. He would really need to go higher, since he's nearly the pinnacle of reflexes for the Marvel universe.
Etc.
10 points isn't remotely enough to build someone like Spidey. 20 might do the trick. Maybe.
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Hilariously, I had the same thought today and specced Spiderman in my head while chatting out an NPC with my mate.
Amusingly, I came up with nearly all the same stuff, only I added in Superhuman Speed and Toughness and Recovery.
I didn't think he'd manage on 10 refresh but I wasn't really speccing him based upon a limited refresh so much as just speccing him appropriately.
I agree he needs higher speed than strength but I also feel he needs toughness.
From least to most: Strength/Toughness, Speed.
And the rest is excellent. Well done on the aspects. They may be kinda obvious, but it's awesome to see them written out.
I think at some point, the first one would be replaced tho. I'm not sure what with... maybe "I will protect those I love". Or something. But he gets over vengeance too early on in the story to leave it permanently imo. Just my thoughts.
I admittedly was never into comics and have only gotten into comics since the movies started coming out these past few years.
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As far as i can see, Spiderman latest incarnation would be easily worth 11 - 15 Points
Powers:
Superhuman Strength (- 4)
Inhuman Toughness (- 2)
Inhuman Recovery (- 2)
+ Catch: Nearness to Anti-Venom (+ 0)
Superhuman Speed ( - 4)
Supernatural Sense: Spidersense (- 1)
IoP: Web-Shooters (- 1)
- Modified Breath Weapon (- 2)
- IoP Bonus (+ 1)
Spiderwalk (- 1)
If you would like to do a playable version of him, i would suggest to start with
Powers:
Inhuman Strength (- 2)
Inhuman Recovery (- 2)
Catch: ??
Inhuman Speed (- 2)
Item of Power: Web-Shooters (- 1)
- Modified Breath Weapon (- 2)
- IoP Bonus (+1)
Spiderwalk (- 1)
Supernatural Sense: Spidersense (- 1)
that would be, depending on the catch, 8 - 9 Points worth of Powers.
Besides, i really like those aspects..
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Stats for Venom (based on DumbleDresden's Spidey, and representing the classic version of the character):
IoP: The Symbiote (+2)
- Mythic Strength (- 6)
- Supernatural Toughness (- 4)
- Inhuman Recovery (- 2)
- Human Guise (-0)
+ Catch: Sound or heat (+ 1)
- Mythic Speed ( - 6)
-Supernatural Sense: Spidersense (- 1)
- Modified Breath Weapon (- 2)
- Demonic Co-Pilot (- 1)
- Spiderwalk (- 1)
Depending on the incarnation, Venom may or may not possess a Feeding Dependancy.
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Stats for Venom (based on DumbleDresden's Spidey, and representing the classic version of the character):
IoP: The Symbiote (+2)
- Mythic Strength (- 6)
- Supernatural Toughness (- 4)
- Inhuman Recovery (- 2)
- Human Guise (-0)
+ Catch: Sound or heat (+ 1)
- Mythic Speed ( - 6)
-Supernatural Sense: Spidersense (- 1)
- Modified Breath Weapon (- 2)
- Demonic Co-Pilot (- 1)
- Spiderwalk (- 1)
Depending on the incarnation, Venom may or may not possess a Feeding Dependancy.
Nice build, but don't forget the Camouflage Capabilities of the symbiont and his immunity against Spidey Danger-Sense. I would say it's some kind of (modified?) cloak of shadows power (- 1) with some kind of extra against Spidey. And in terms of speed i still would say that Spidey was faster and more agile than Venom after all, so just Inhuman Speed for Spidey's old nemesis. ;)
But I like that build, and i like building Marvel charakters with the DF system^^
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Tossing a mid sized car one zone is Might 13. Using it as a weapon is higher. That means Mythic Strength combined with a goodish Might.
Guys, Mythic Strength gives a +12 bonus to might in such rolls as well as a lot of other bonuses. Someone with superb might and Mythic Strength can peel off vault doors like they were sticky notes (he doesn't even need to roll) and can use 50-ton tanks as thrown weapons. His basic fist attack that barely connected would do more damage than being hit by a speeding car or blasted by most man-throwable explosives. That's Hulk and Superman, not Spiderman.
Inhuman Strength, a mighty thews equivalent stunt or power and a might of fantastic (high-power chars have higher skill caps) is enough to throw small cars and motorcycles. With Supernatural Strength, you could do it with only good might.
Here's how I see spiderman:
[-2] Inhuman Strength
[-1] Spider Strength - double the bonuses of Inhuman Strength in might rolls to lift/move/throw massive loads and rolls to resist being pried off a surface.
[-2] Inhuman Speed
[-2] Spider Sense - treat surprise attacks as normal attacks; spiderman can both act and defend normally. (full physical immunity to surprise costs -3)
[-1] Acrobat
[-1] Lightning Reflexes - +2 to dodge rolls vs melee attacks, provided you can descibe the dodge colorfully.
[-1] Spider Walk - spiderman can move up any solid surface (but not sprint), jump over any distance he could move as a supplemental action without needing to roll (normally 2 zones) and, by using webbing to swing, cross a distance equal to his "sprint" provided there is a tall building to swing from (normally 7 zones). This power is roughly equivalent to but both less useful and less attention-grabbing than wings.
[-3] Webbing - spiderman can use his webbing to execute maneuvers and blocks at range, rolling at Athletics+2. (this is based off Incite Emotions with 2 range upgrades)
[-1] Vantage Point - when climbing surfaces above his target, spiderman has +2 to stealth rolls.
[-2] Inhuman Toughness
[-2] Inhuman Recovery
[+2] Catch - radiation and biological agents
SKILLS
+6 Athletics, Might
+5 Stealth, Endurance, Scholarship
+4 Fists, Superscience, Alertness
most other skills default to good except for guns, resources and social skills. Those are mediocre.
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I've found that superheros need a larger skill point budget, as well as a higher skill cap, and more refresh, to get the results about where I like them. For instance, my version of the Hulk uses 60 skill points, a cap of fantastic (+7), and 20 refresh. That's also about enough to do a decent version of Superman.
I think of the web-slinger is a little lower powered, but I'd probably take a stab at Spidey using 45 or so Skill Points, a cap of Epic, and 15 or so refresh. That's just a guess, YMMV.
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Guys, Mythic Strength gives a +12 bonus to might in such rolls as well as a lot of other bonuses. Someone with superb might and Mythic Strength can peel off vault doors like they were sticky notes (he doesn't even need to roll) and can use 50-ton tanks as thrown weapons. His basic fist attack that barely connected would do more damage than being hit by a speeding car or blasted by most man-throwable explosives. That's Hulk and Superman, not Spiderman.
Inhuman Strength, a mighty thews equivalent stunt or power and a might of fantastic (high-power chars have higher skill caps) is enough to throw small cars and motorcycles. With Supernatural Strength, you could do it with only good might.
Here's how I see spiderman:
[-2] Inhuman Strength
[-1] Spider Strength - double the bonuses of Inhuman Strength in might rolls to lift/move/throw massive loads and rolls to resist being pried off a surface.
[-2] Inhuman Speed
[-2] Spider Sense - treat surprise attacks as normal attacks; spiderman can both act and defend normally. (full physical immunity to surprise costs -3)
[-1] Acrobat
[-1] Lightning Reflexes - +2 to dodge rolls vs melee attacks, provided you can descibe the dodge colorfully.
[-1] Spider Walk - spiderman can move up any solid surface (but not sprint), jump over any distance he could move as a supplemental action without needing to roll (normally 2 zones) and, by using webbing to swing, cross a distance equal to his "sprint" provided there is a tall building to swing from (normally 7 zones). This power is roughly equivalent to but both less useful and less attention-grabbing than wings.
[-3] Webbing - spiderman can use his webbing to execute maneuvers and blocks at range, rolling at Athletics+2. (this is based off Incite Emotions with 2 range upgrades)
[-1] Vantage Point - when climbing surfaces above his target, spiderman has +2 to stealth rolls.
[-2] Inhuman Toughness
[-2] Inhuman Recovery
[+2] Catch - radiation and biological agents
SKILLS
+6 Athletics, Might
+5 Stealth, Endurance, Scholarship
+4 Fists, Superscience, Alertness
most other skills default to good except for guns, resources and social skills. Those are mediocre.
Best Spiderman built so far, i would say. Those supplemental Powers/Stunts really complete the build.
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Spiderman is doable at around 15 refresh. I don't think Superman or the Hulk are.
Superman
To cover the abilities of Superman, not only do you need many of the high-end physical powers but you also need upgrades/adaptations to nail down his secondary powers. I don't think it is possible to do it at less than 40ish refresh and even then you'd be pushing it.
[-6] Mythic Strength
[-3] Tremendous Blows - superman's fists are rolled at weapons+2 and have a weapon rating of 4. (this is a physical equivalent to incite emotion in effectiveness)
[-5] Energy Attack - superman has a breath weapon of both eyebeams and actual breath (-3), at weapon rating 4 (-1), with increased range (-1)
[-2] Multiattack - superman may attack all targets in a zone due to his superspeed, effectively doing spread attacks. He may either spread his weapon rating with fast, accurate but weak blows or his attack roll, with powerful but badly aimed blows.
[-6] Mythic Toughness
[+4] Catch - Kryptonian radiation and Magic
[-4] Nigh Invulnerable - halve all physical stress dealt to superman. (this is half a physical immunity - catch is kryptonite)
[-4] Healing Factor - in broad daylight, superman heals up his highest filled stress box every exchange. He can suvive without food, water and air about 100 times longer than a human being and, given time, can recover from consequences. (this is half a physical immunity - catch is darkness)
[-4] Supernatural Speed
[-1] Flight
[-6] Superspeed - multiply the number of zones superman can move in any movement action by a factor of 4. When sprinting, he can keep up with most things, being able to move a mile per exchange. When sprinting in a frictionless environment where nothing slows him down (such as in space when carrying no significant weight) he can accelerate by that amount in each exchange instead - but would also need to spend a similar number of exchanges to slow down. Whether he has an upper speed is unknown though the speed of light is probably the hard upper limit.
[-3] Senses - superman has thermal vision, x-ray vision, telescopic vision, microscopic vision, acute hearing and broadband hearing. (each sense takes up 2 senses slots because it is significantly powerful)
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Shouldn't Superman have Physical Immunity whilst under the influence of earth's sun? Catch of cause would be Kryptonite. Speed and strength both belong on Mythic levels too (more like beyond it actually).
The rules are ill fit to reflect Supermans other powers. He does many things that you don't mention in your writeup. Personally I don't think the rules handle this top tier of superheros very well. I'm quite sure though that FATE could be adapted to do it easily.
Hulk might be easier then Superman ...
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Superman doesn't have physical immunity. Equally powerful opponents can and usually do hurt him.
Consider that with armor 3 and 10 stress boxes and nigh invulnerable, a weapon 6 attack such as a rocket or light artillery shell would not even scratch him. A weapon 8 heavy artillery shell would fill up one stress box. It would take something that does at least 46 points of stress to take him out in one blow and considering that a 12-stress hit can flatten a tank, that would be in the realm of nuclear explosions and major magic.
And then consider what happens once he is "taken out". The very next exchange, his stress begins to clear and he gets back on his feet.
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The system wasn't designed with supers in mind, so we shouldn't be surprised that it can't handle all the specifics quite right. My point is that it comes astonishingly close without very much tweaking. My quick version of Superman looked a little like this. Not cannon compliant, but quite playable, I think.
Fantastic: Might, Endurance
Epic: Alertness, Athletics
Superb: Conviction, Discipline
Great: Presence...
[-0] Human Guise
[-6] Mythic Strength
[-6] Mythic Speed
[-6] Mythic Toughness
[-6] Mythic Recovery
[+4] Catches: Kryptonite and Magic
[+1] Feeding Dependency: Yellow Sunlight
[-1] Wings
[-3] Breath Weapon (Heat Vision and Cold Breath)
[-3] Supernatural senses, up to a dozen or so
That's -26, which is more that I remember the last time I thought about this. Maybe there's another trick for getting back a point or two that I'm forgetting. Technically, the radiation and vacuum of space or the heat of earth's molten core could eventually hurt him, but how often is he going to fail the endurance check?
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Link to my older hulk writeup. http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,17625.msg794250.html#msg794250 (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,17625.msg794250.html#msg794250)
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Physical Immunity. That's pretty much Superman all day. You can drop a building on him and he doesn't just shake it off...his hair's barely out of place. I've never seen him get "hurt." Pushed back? Sure. Delayed? Alright. Knocked down? He's never actually injured, bruised, cut, broken boned, etc. There never seems to be any actual damage to heal. I mean there is the exception of the time he died, but that was the only time I've ever actually seen him hurt when other external factors (no yellow sun, kryptonite, etc) were in play.
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Physical Immunity. That's pretty much Superman all day. You can drop a building on him and he doesn't just shake it off...his hair's barely out of place. I've never seen him get "hurt." Pushed back? Sure. Delayed? Alright. Knocked down? He's never actually injured, bruised, cut, broken boned, etc. There never seems to be any actual damage to heal. I mean there is the exception of the time he died, but that was the only time I've ever actually seen him hurt when other external factors (no yellow sun, kryptonite, etc) were in play.
I've never seen a broken bone, but I have seen bruises and cuts. The occassional clutching the gut after someone his own strength punched it. It isn't physical immunity, although some would probably play it that way.
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That's fair. I've never really seen cuts and bruises. Not recently anyway. Back in silver age some times...
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So far I think most of these are a little over the top for Spiderman. Though he has been part of the Avengers, and fought with some of the bigger guys, in and of himself he is fairly low powered. Most of his abilities are at the inhuman level. Frequently he fights mundane people or other very minor bad guys, and so his abilities seem magnified, but inhuman speed and supernatural sense can give enough of a bonus to alertness and athletics that he always seems to go much faster than most of the guys he is fighting. His web shooters were not anything inherent to him, nor are they really something that should come up as an item of power. Most of the time they are a function of an aspect being invoked for a maneuver or description to his attack. Actually, since there are frequently times when he can't afford to make the adhesive for the web shooters it would be more appropriate not to be an item of power.
Somebody like Quicksilver would have mythic speed, but not much else. Wolverine would have mythic recovery and/or toughness and the claws power. Daredevil would have a bunch of stunts and maybe supernatural senses. Even Captain America would fit pretty well at 10-15 refresh.
I think a lot of people want superheroes to be SUPER OMG!!!! KILL YOU ARGH!!!!, but many of the marvel heroes at least, are well within the bounds of the Dresden Files. We have seen Thomas do enough to go toe to toe with any of the Marvel Knights and some of the Avengers. Harry suffers at least as much of a beating as most comic book heroes and comes out on top with nothing more than Wizards Constitution.
I think that Dresden Files might actually model a lot of superheroes better than some superhero games because of the way powers are split up. In DC Heroes or Necessary Evil, for example, something like Luke Cages physical immunity or Wolverines healing are not possible as player character without building up to it.
Now DC comics are a completely different beast and play complete havoc with anything resembling consistency or playable concepts. Superman would have an ability called:
Yes! (-100) - When under the effects of a yellow sun superman has whatever abilities he wants. When his player asks if he can do something the answer is always "Yes!"
Human guise (+1)
The Catch (+?) Kryptonite: Superman loses his Yes! ability.
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Actually, most comic characters have this ability;
[-8] Plot Armor: The hero (or villain) is tied to a plot; they are immune to attacks that, if they affected him, would ruin that plot. Such attacks the hero manages to endure through heroic willpower or they somehow fail through contrived coincidence, the villain is inexplicably prepared against them or is just too powerful for them to affect.
[+0] Catch: plot armor does NOT make a hero invulnerable. As long as the end result is in accordance to the plot, the hero can be beaten, taken out or even killed normally.
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Nice Spidey build, but I thought of two things: first, I didn't see anyone give him the Intimidation stunt of Infuriate, which he clearly demonstrates against foes all the time; second...why not just count his webbing as a variant of channeling to allow for blasts, grapples, and blocks?