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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: HappyDaze on August 27, 2010, 01:24:03 PM

Title: Can True Fae be player characters?
Post by: HappyDaze on August 27, 2010, 01:24:03 PM: If I want a True Fae (rather than a Changeling) as a PC and my character still has a Refresh > 0, is there any mechanical or in-game reason that I could not do so? I know the GM can always declare certain things off limits, but I'm more asking if there's anything inherent to such 'monsters' that would make them unplayable when they still have positive Refresh (and the degree of free will that comes with it).
Title: Re: Can True Fae be player characters?
Post by: MijRai on August 27, 2010, 01:37:21 PM: Just give a good reason, and I see no problem. Maybe have your character 'cursed' to have free will by someone. I know a guy who did a Gruff who killed a Troll Sorcerer, and its death curse had given him free will. Maybe have your character steal the will, or got it for a good reason.
Title: Re: Can True Fae be player characters?
Post by: Lukas the Dead on August 27, 2010, 02:23:50 PM: I like MijRai's idea about it being a punishment, so I'll just add on an additional possibility. Maybe he did something to tick off his court and the queen cursed him with it.
Title: Re: Can True Fae be player characters?
Post by: KOFFEYKID on August 27, 2010, 02:55:33 PM: I had a similar idea, here is as far as I got with the character.

Quote from: KOFFEYKID on August 08, 2010, 06:25:48 AM

This is my current idea. A full blooded Fey who tricked free will off a human.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v15/Ramaloke/The_Seeress_by_Shikijiyu.jpg)

Frieja Winters
High Concept: Free-Willed Winter Fey
Trouble: "Hounds of Winter, At My Heels"
Other Aspects: "Beautiful… Like an Ice Sculpture"; "Words Are Binding"; "I Stole Winter's Breath"
Stress: P OOO(OO) S OOOO M OOOO

Skills
5   Discipline
4   Conviction, Lore, Athletics
3   Presence, Rapport, Alertness
2   Endurance, Deceit, Contacts
1   Resources, Empathy, Intimidation

Powers and Stunts
-4   Greater Glamours
+1   Item of Power (Breath of Winter)
-4   -Unseelie Magic
+3   The Catch (Cold Iron and Summer Trappings)
-2   -Inhuman Toughness
-2   -Inhuman Recovery
-1   Fey Bargaining Tactics

Breath of Winter (Item of Power) [-3]
Description: A silver necklaces with a small glass bottle held in place with a delicate latticework of silvery snowflakes. Inside are glowing snowflakes, which swirl around endlessly. It is always cold to the touch.
Musts: An aspect directly referencing this Item of Power.
Skills Affected: None.
Effects:
It Is What It Is. It's a Necklace.
Unbreakable. As an Item of Power, it cannot be broken, save through dedicated magical ritual predicated upon perverting its purpose.
Unseelie Magic. This necklace gives you the ability to use Unseelie Magic. See YS 161 for details.

Fey Bargaining Tactics [-1] You, like all other fey, have a natural flair and skill at making deals. You make all social rolls at a +1 bonus when making any type of binding agreement.

When she is Glamoured she looks like this:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v15/Ramaloke/Gia_by_WarrenLouw.jpg)
Title: Re: Can True Fae be player characters?
Post by: Enjorous on August 27, 2010, 05:25:18 PM: Short answer: NO!

In DFRPG fate points and refresh are representative of free will. Fae by their very nature have no free will they are their nature and cannot stray from that.

I like what MijRai said, but I still think it's too much.
Title: Re: Can True Fae be player characters?
Post by: KOFFEYKID on August 27, 2010, 05:52:06 PM: I will temper that statement with a YES.

The enjoyment of the group is more important than any rule. Its all about having fun.
Title: Re: Can True Fae be player characters?
Post by: wyvern on August 27, 2010, 05:57:56 PM: Short answer: Maybe, depending on your gaming group.

I could easily see even a full fey, beholden to one of the courts, as being playable - particularly if they had some sort of deal or debt that tied them to the mundane world. Of course, such a character would have plentiful opportunities for compels against their high concept representing orders from above, or their own nature (inability to directly lie, etc.) - but some players will thrive on such limitations.

On the other hand, I could easily see a game where such a character was totally unsuitable. It really depends on who you're playing with, and what everyone else expects out of the game. At the very least, one should never simply assume that such a character is a possibility without talking it over with your gaming group first.
Title: Re: Can True Fae be player characters?
Post by: Richard_Chilton on August 27, 2010, 06:21:34 PM: By a strict reading of the rules, no.

If you want to add home brewed rules, then this could be one of the ones you add.

Richard
Title: Re: Can True Fae be player characters?
Post by: Lanir on August 27, 2010, 06:55:48 PM: Totally depends on the group. And if the GM is happy with what you intend to do with the character. Technically Thomas was run like a PC would be in most of the novels and a white court vampire isn't any worse than a fae as far as the nature vs free will thing goes. You should probably expect some of the same issues a Changeling would have though, since you're also trying to go against your nature at times in order to continue being a PC.

If your group likes the idea well enough to decide to alter the setting to remove the nature vs free will battle, that's cool too. But everyone should be in on a decision like that since it alters things they might have read or will read about the setting.
Title: Re: Can True Fae be player characters?
Post by: Lukas the Dead on August 27, 2010, 07:24:03 PM: Quote from: Lanir on August 27, 2010, 06:55:48 PM
If your group likes the idea well enough to decide to alter the setting to remove the nature vs free will battle, that's cool too. But everyone should be in on a decision like that since it alters things they might have read or will read about the setting.

You don't have to alter the setting as a whole, after all "the heroes of The Dresden Files RPG are genuinely exceptional individuals" (YS17) and so exceptions can be made for them. Throughout the books we've had examples of one person or another for whom the rules are bent or broken, it's one of the reoccurring themes.
Title: Re: Can True Fae be player characters?
Post by: tymire on August 27, 2010, 09:32:21 PM: Imo I don't see why you couldn't play a fey. Just would make a couple really basic changes.

1st: Your High Concept must be what type of "monster" you are.
2nd: Compels based on your High Concept become mandatory, they cannot be ignored.
3rd: You receive no fate points from a compel of your High Concept.

That fixes the free will vs. nature debate, as your character no longer has free will.

Doubt any GMs would saying no to that (unless they are fairly lazy and don't want to do deal with it) as you just gave handed them the keys to your character's soul (if it has one).

Now the effects of this might be very messy, and well depending on what happens and it is very likely that the character could be turned against the party. *Shrug* that's the nature of the beast though. Could make for some really good and humorous situations though. The fact that all bargins MUST be kept and the character MUST always tell the truth... hmmm so much fun. Regardless I would definately would want to run it by all the other players before brought it to the table.

Also makes me wonder if that saying from Peter Pan has any truth to it in the DV ("Everytime say you dont believe in fairies, a fairy dies"). ::)
Title: Re: Can True Fae be player characters?
Post by: zcthu3 on August 27, 2010, 09:51:49 PM: Quote from: tymire on August 27, 2010, 09:32:21 PM
Imo I don't see why you couldn't play a fey. Just would make a couple really basic changes.

1st: Your High Concept must be what type of "monster" you are.
2nd: Compels based on your High Concept become mandatory, they cannot be ignored.
3rd: You receive no fate points from a compel of your High Concept.

I agree with your 1st point, but disagree with your 2nd and 3rd.

If a full Fae character has Fate Points then they should be able to resist compels in the same way that those with sponsored magic can resist the sponsor's agenda - While Fae don't have true "free-will" they can, IMO, resist giving into their nature when they need to - for a while at least in the same way that a Red Court Vampire can resist its hunger... Eventually their nature will overwhelm them and they will give in.... generally at the least convenient time for the rest of the PCs...
Title: Re: Can True Fae be player characters?
Post by: JosephKell on August 27, 2010, 10:01:49 PM: Why not just play a Changeling that has already taken a lot of powers?

Being a Fae has a whole host of annoyances for you and your group. Thresholds and can't lie (3 times if you are regular or at all if you are sidhe) are two big ones.
Title: Re: Can True Fae be player characters?
Post by: Doc Nova on August 27, 2010, 10:03:13 PM: I would have no problem with a full fae, if the concept were solid...although I am having trouble wrapping my head around the notion of being cursed with free will. Tricking it off a human, I can see...but cursed to be able to make choices I am not seeing.

Just my perspective, though. The most important thing is that it works for you and your group.
Title: Re: Can True Fae be player characters?
Post by: Richard_Chilton on August 27, 2010, 10:26:43 PM: Why is it a curse?

A Fae normally cannot act counter to its nature. A Winter Court Troll is a Winter Court Troll and acts as a Winter Court Troll acts. Give him freewill and he might find himself making a choice that ends up giving aid the Summer Court - which wouldn't be something the Nobles of the Winter Court could understand. They would have to assume that he was betraying them because they wouldn't understand how he could make that choice.

Thinking of it another way, without Freewill you have Certainty. You know what you are doing and why you are doing it. You might not think Winter and Summer going to war is a good thing, but the war call has gone out so you answer it - because that's what a Fae does. Add freewill into the equation and you lose certainty. Is going to war a good idea? Should you show up once the war call goes out? What is right? What is wrong? How can I tell?

In short, a Fae with Freewill can get very existential over what he should and shouldn't do.

Richard
Title: Re: Can True Fae be player characters?
Post by: Becq on August 27, 2010, 11:06:50 PM: A couple of things mentioned about DFRPG Fae:

YS10: "fae literally cannot step outside their natures or break oaths"
YS75: "If taking on another ability reduces your character’s refresh to zero or otherwise fulfills all the “musts” of a faerie of the appropriate type, the changeling’s Choice is made and he becomes a full faerie, never mortal again, and now fully subject to the will of the Faerie Courts."

These quotes make it clear that Faeries are *intended* to be non-playable as characters. On the other hand:

YS74: "Eventually, too much transformation will lead to an inability to retain a grip on mortality, and the character slips into faerie (often becoming an NPC as his power costs rise to exceed his refresh)."

The word 'often' implies the possibility that becoming a Fae need not relegate the character to NPC-dom, so long as positive refresh remains.

I think the bottom line is this: in "Harry's World" a Fae cannot be a player, because by definition a Fae's will is subsumed by the Court. But you will be playing out Your Story, so it's up to you group and your GM to decide. And it's an interesting concept, so why not?
Title: Re: Can True Fae be player characters?
Post by: HappyDaze on August 28, 2010, 05:01:31 AM: After reading the posts here - and most were really helpful - I took a long look at this paragraph:

That said, the situation is often grey and not clear-cut. There are those few who are part mortal and part monster: vampires who struggle to fight their hungers and do the right thing; werewolves who chose lycanthropy to get the strength to defend their community; wizards who accept help from dark sources, but hope to restrain the urges that threaten to engulf them. Choice is the overwhelming theme of these individuals’ lives. Will they retain their humanity or will they become monsters? And is there any way that those who are now monsters can perhaps regain some degree of humanity, some capacity for choice? (YS11)

There is also this:

At some point, a changeling must Choose whether to become totally fae or totally mortal. If they go fae, they get all the powers of their type, but lose a lot of their free will. If they go mortal, they lose a lot of their inborn powers, but retain free will and mortal agency. (OW41)

Note that is says "a lot of their free will" rather than all free will, and we seem to have an option for something that is almost a true fae but still appears playable. This helps me to flesh out a concept even further - a Changeling that made the final choice and went with his faerie nature, but finds that he still possesses some measure of free will (Refresh > 0). This doesn't free the character from the limitations of the fae as noted in Our World, but I'd imagine such a character following his fae nature - but attempting to guide his actions within the greater limits of it - should be as playable as a WCV.