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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Holocron.Coder on July 27, 2010, 12:51:11 PM
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I could've sworn I'd seen this around here somewhere, but I can't seem to find it at the moment.
Say I have a character with the following supernatural abilities:
-2 Inhuman Toughness
-2 Inhuman Recovery
Both require The Catch. Since the powers total to -4, does that mean the catch can provide a total bonus of -3? Or is it only -1 (bringing each of the powers down to -1 individually, not in total).
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The catch applies to all toughness powers, and as long as the aggregate cost of the toughness powers is -1, the catch gives full discount.
So in your example, the character can have a +3 catch. You can see several examples of this in the book in the stat blocks.
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The catch can be worth up to +3 (well it can be more than that but you won't get the benefit of it) as it's the combined refresh of the toughness powers that is counted. So a character with those powers and a +3 catch would only pay -1 refresh.
Bah, beat me to it!
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Alright, that is what I had thought, but my DM wanted to be certain before we continued ;D
So, that done, I'm trying to figure out an appropriate Catch for an inhuman created by a government facility to combat the supernatural. He has all 4 of the inhuman abilities (strength, toughness, speed, recovery), along with skills in guns. He's escaped from the government and they had the idea to 'program' a weakness into him that they would know and could exploit that his original assignments (supernatural beings) wouldn't be as likely to know or utilize.
Four thoughts about it:
1) Catch is mortals
2) Catch is non-supernaturals (distinct, in that it discludes wizards, weres, etc)
3) Catch is some metal the government would have access to easily, but not the rest of the world. I.E. Plutonium, etc
4) Catch is some other metal that's just too expensive for everyday use and is a bit out there as a weapon type. I.E. Platinum, etc
Any other suggestions for an appropriate catch for that character?
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Thanks. I do like being certain!
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Would you kindly show me some more examples of these catches? :D
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Hows about reverse catchs? Make a holy type or "good" character. (spirit of inspiration. that kind of thing) someone who is intrinsically helpful to mortals.
Make their catch "unholy stuff" (the reverse of demons) , or "true apathy" or "true despair" or something like that.
Take the catchs that exist, flip them and stick them on something.
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Luminos: I'm not sure I follow you.
Ballplayer72: That makes sense for a character... but not so much the character as I've described him here: So, that done, I'm trying to figure out an appropriate Catch for an inhuman created by a government facility to combat the supernatural. He has all 4 of the inhuman abilities (strength, toughness, speed, recovery), along with skills in guns. He's escaped from the government and they had the idea to 'program' a weakness into him that they would know and could exploit that his original assignments (supernatural beings) wouldn't be as likely to know or utilize.
Four thoughts about it:
1) Catch is mortals
2) Catch is non-supernaturals (distinct, in that it discludes wizards, weres, etc)
3) Catch is some metal the government would have access to easily, but not the rest of the world. I.E. Plutonium, etc
4) Catch is some other metal that's just too expensive for everyday use and is a bit out there as a weapon type. I.E. Platinum, etc
Any other suggestions for an appropriate catch for that character?
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Perhaps the government used black magic or demon blood to create their super soldier program and so his catch is holy items, give him an aspect to match like 'unholy beginnings' or 'born of black magic' and use it to cause him problems with true believers, holy warriors and general do-gooders.
Is the government agency still operating? Is he following orders or did he escape? Or did it close down due to budget cuts? Or did it tear itself apart as it gradually twisted in to a corrupt, power-hungry sect; fueled by black magic and assasination? Perhaps it was destroyed by an enemy, supernatural or international, and your character is seeking revenge/answers? Are there others like him and, if so, are they trying to find each other? Did they turn evil too?
Oooo fun :D
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Luminos: I'm not sure I follow you.
Ballplayer72: That makes sense for a character... but not so much the character as I've described him here:
yeah it was just a general thought.
For your character why not make it a specific, fictional compound that only the lab that made him would have access to. Anti Supersoldier serum or something.
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Perhaps the government used black magic or demon blood to create their super soldier program and so his catch is holy items, give him an aspect to match like 'unholy beginnings' or 'born of black magic' and use it to cause him problems with true believers, holy warriors and general do-gooders.
Is the government agency still operating? Is he following orders or did he escape? Or did it close down due to budget cuts? Or did it tear itself apart as it gradually twisted in to a corrupt, power-hungry sect; fueled by black magic and assasination? Perhaps it was destroyed by an enemy, supernatural or international, and your character is seeking revenge/answers? Are there others like him and, if so, are they trying to find each other? Did they turn evil too?
Oooo fun :D
That does indeed sound fun :D Currently, I have him as escaped from the government, to include more potential antagonists for the characters. They're still pursuing him, though dunno if it's for capture or termination. Up to the DM ;)
yeah it was just a general thought.
For your character why not make it a specific, fictional compound that only the lab that made him would have access to. Anti Supersoldier serum or something.
Eh, potentially just a bit too vague and macguffin-ium
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Well, this really depends a lot on how much of a catch value you want. For example, "odd materials" such as you describe would be a +2 catch - technically anyone can get, say, depleted uranium bullets (though they're largely illegal if you're not military and several countries have banned their use even if you are military), but it's not researchable without knowledge of your specific character.
If you go with a specific fictional compound, that'd be a +1 catch - it's accessible (and known!) to a fair sized group of government agents that are after you, but nobody else has it.
Or, as CMEast suggests, your catch could be based on what power sources they used for their super soldier program. This is one of two ways you could possibly get a +3 catch (accessible to anyone & researchable - for example, the fey vulnerability to iron/steel would fit here); the other being if, for some bizarre reason, your catch could be found in publicly accessible documents (if anyone thought to look in the right place).
For example, suppose they used oriental-style necromancy to bind the spirits of the dead to your character; you'd be vulnerable to jade weaponry, and - assuming there's some obvious physical or metaphysical mark on you from that - someone with a high enough lore skill could just know that's your weakness; that'd be a full +3 catch. On the other hand, if they'd have to look at you with the Sight and *then* go do some research, it'd be only a +2. And if it has to be jade consecrated by a true believer in buddhism, that's a +1 catch (at best, maybe +0 depending on your GM).
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Currently, I'm going for a +3 catch. I had a few ideas before, mostly along the lines of Special Material, common (+2) and Difficult Research (+1).
I didn't plan for any particular "power source", so to speak, that would make the character as he is. Simple, ol' fashioned Marvel-esque "government experiment". I.E., likely some chemical formula, gene manipulation, maybe a bit of magic tossed in... but with the goal of making him strong against supernatural threats. So, a weakness that's easily perceivable by those he would be fighting is out (such as Sight to see metaphysical signs, or sensing said signs, etc). So I was thinking of something that could be accomplished more by a mundane character, but isn't something that you'd think of quickly. So, it could be a direct Catch, in that only mortals can wound him, but that seems a bit broad. So perhaps something vaguely technological, that most supernatural beings wouldn't think of. So far, all I've come up with is one of several rare or unusual metals, or the suggestion of a direct 'anti-superhuman' formula, which probably wouldn't net a +3 due to its obscurity and rarity.
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Currently, I'm going for a +3 catch. I had a few ideas before, mostly along the lines of Special Material, common (+2) and Difficult Research (+1).
My take you are going adding too much value (mathematically) for your Catch. The Difficult to Research would reduce the value of the Catch, not increase. So, it would become a +1 Catch, not +3.
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The catch can be worth up to +3 (well it can be more than that but you won't get the benefit of it)
So, what would “Carbon Based” be of value for a Catch?
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Speaking of power sources, if your character needs some sort of treatment to keep him strong, stable and sane then perhaps he could have a feeding dependancy too. That's another [+1] and it could be something as simple as desperately needing sugar* or an injection of some kind**; or as obscure as an hour long 'shut-down period'***. Maybe even the blood of supernatural creatures or the tears of children, depending on how you want to play it.
Perhaps the catch could be related to it that way. For instance if he had a matrix-style port in the back of his head which he plugs in to the wall to power his nanites (go with me) then perhaps that's also his achilles heel (it's an obvious target, damage to it is easy to do so it's +3 or +4). Or perhaps you go in to a trance in direct sunlight, photosynthesising to feed your powers, and your catch is that strong sunlight weakens you as your body readies itself to feed, even if it's mid conflict.
Yes, I think too much :)
*Yes, diabetics have both a feeding dependancy AND a catch
**Chev Chelios from Crank also had a feeding dependancy
***As did Robocop
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After reading your post, how about something like concentrated ultra-violet light. Maybe the magic used infused you with a vampires strength and a watered down version of it's weakness. It's researchable (perhaps your eyes turn insect-like or you grow fangs when you tap in to your strength), it's very common, and if you include it as your aspect then you could earn fate points for night-club scenes and any other scene involving a light like that. Plus that aspect could be used to bolster your strength powers, especially at night or in the dark :)
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My take you are going adding too much value (mathematically) for your Catch. The Difficult to Research would reduce the value of the Catch, not increase. So, it would become a +1 Catch, not +3.
That's... not how a Catch works. A Catch is either 1) Common Knowledge, 2) Researchable, or 3) Impossible to research, at values of +2, +1, +0. I was just referring to #2, as it compares it to 'Requiring the research materials of a wizard's laboratory'. And my character would require 'The research materials of a classified government facility', which is roughly equivalent. Thus, +1. And, even at worst, it's a +0, not a -1. So, with your logic, it would be a +2 Catch, not a +1.
@CMEast
That's a rather neat idea, the light source trouble. May have to think that one over, and for the ultraviolet light one, add the caveat that it must be a large ratio of ultraviolet light (since ultraviolet exists in regular sunlight anyway, and, well, that would suck). O, the amusement of a 'superman'-esque hero running on the tears of children :D
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Leatherneck: You're mis-reading the catch rules. Yes, "Difficult to research" is worth only +1 - but that's in addition to any bonus for the rarity of the catch; assuming that the rarity is "Something anyone could get a hold of", the total catch is a +3.
That said, in order to get the +1 from difficult to research, it has to be *possible* to research the catch without knowing anything about your character in particular. If you don't want something that can be researched via magical knowledge, I'd suggest making the catch publicly accessible knowledge - something that you can request information on under a freedom-of-information type act, or possibly something you can (if you know where to look) find online in an infodump some hotshot hacker dragged out of the federal computer systems. In other words, findable, but not something most people could (or would think to try to) get their hands on.
As for what special material to use... I'd tend to either avoid the really obscure and hard to get things (like depleted uranium, or plutonium, or anything else that's likely to have legal restrictions on its possession) - at least unless you're vulnerable to multiple types of things. Maybe gold? It's nice and chemically inert - but can work as a catalyst.
Or, hey, here's a notion: it's not any specific element that you're vulnerable to, but extreme heat or cold; your powers protect fine against ordinary ice or fire, but you can be easily harmed by (and don't heal rapidly from) damage caused by, say, an oxy-acetylene torch, large-scale incinerator, or some twit with a flask of liquid nitrogen. (Of course, that would mean that some - but not all - fire/ice magic will get by your defenses. So sad.)
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Perhaps it could be as simple as a common allergy, but modified to be much much worse for the character. Latex, perhaps?
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Perhaps it could be as simple as a common allergy, but modified to be much much worse for the character. Latex, perhaps?
But, but, that means no supersuit :-[ Relevant (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFY5fUmEX40)
@Wyvern
Eh, as you pointed out, extreme heat/cold is too much the realm of the supernatural. I'm still tending towards a material of some kind. If a depleted plutonium/uranium is too esoteric, I may have to go with something like platinum, if only to avoid the normal gold/silver commonalities ;D Though, there's a thought... what about radiation in general? So, any sort of moderate radiation. Though, I suppose that's not very portable, short of the aforementioned plutonium/uranium slugs :-\
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Latex? But then what is the 'superman'-esque hero going to do when he meets a feisty 'cat girl'-esque heroine! Oh the humanity!
Interesting idea though :)
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IMO, if there are legal restrictions against obtaining a substance, then that substance does not count as "reasonably attainable by anyone".
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Speaking of power sources, if your character needs some sort of treatment to keep him strong, stable and sane then perhaps he could have a feeding dependancy too. That's another [+1] and it could be something as simple as desperately needing sugar* or an injection of some kind**; or as obscure as an hour long 'shut-down period'***. Maybe even the blood of supernatural creatures or the tears of children, depending on how you want to play it.
Perhaps the catch could be related to it that way. For instance if he had a matrix-style port in the back of his head which he plugs in to the wall to power his nanites (go with me) then perhaps that's also his achilles heel (it's an obvious target, damage to it is easy to do so it's +3 or +4). Or perhaps you go in to a trance in direct sunlight, photosynthesising to feed your powers, and your catch is that strong sunlight weakens you as your body readies itself to feed, even if it's mid conflict.
Yes, I think too much :)
*Yes, diabetics have both a feeding dependancy AND a catch
**Chev Chelios from Crank also had a feeding dependancy
***As did Robocop
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After reading your post, how about something like concentrated ultra-violet light. Maybe the magic used infused you with a vampires strength and a watered down version of it's weakness. It's researchable (perhaps your eyes turn insect-like or you grow fangs when you tap in to your strength), it's very common, and if you include it as your aspect then you could earn fate points for night-club scenes and any other scene involving a light like that. Plus that aspect could be used to bolster your strength powers, especially at night or in the dark :)
I have a character with a similar feeding dependency to robocop. My Bride of Morpheus character, who works through making dreams real, has to sleep a number of scenes off camera like a vampire would need to feed off camera. I havent had to sleep just yet, but its really interesting for that character since when she sleeps she just lives in the dream world, so instead of stepping out for a number of scenes she is forced to work a number of scenes in the dream realm. Very interesting character, shes based kind of off of persephone, and the whole summer winter thing, only with sleep/wakefulness.
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@Wyvern
Though, there's a thought... what about radiation in general? So, any sort of moderate radiation. Though, I suppose that's not very portable, short of the aforementioned plutonium/uranium slugs :-\
How moderate the radiation? According to wikipedia: Nausea and vomiting generally occur within 24–48 hours after exposure to mild (1–2 Gy) doses of radiation. Headache, fatigue, and weakness are also seen with mild exposure. Moderate (2–3.5 Gy of radiation) exposure is associated with nausea and vomiting beginning within 12–24 hours after exposure. In addition to the symptoms of mild exposure, fever, hair loss, infections, bloody vomit and stools, and poor wound healing are seen with moderate exposure.
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How much would this Catch be worth?
I'm making a Kitsune Changeling with a Catch for Toughness and Recovery of the human body. In Japanes mythology weapons were coated with human spit to harm spirits more grievously, spirits couldn't escape from bindings made from human hair. So basically my character has toughness and recovery from guns and blades, but if someone spits on the blade or even just punches him with their fists, he doesn't benefit.
How easy do you consider this to research? How easily available do you consider it?
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@ ophidimancer - It isn't common knowledge, so only +1 for research, but it is very easy to get the supplies needed (human contact) so +2 for availability. The catch isn't broad enough to get a +2 for how narrow the focus of the powers are though, so the most you'd get for this catch is a +4, though I'd give it a +3.
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I think luminos is right on the money (and that seems to be a common occurrence, I am learning). Aside from the ick-factor, the only other limiter I could see on that is if someone declared that everyone in the vicinity just ate a bunch of crackers and are unable to salivate significantly...
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Well anything else from the human body could work, too. Blood, hair, etc. I just like the idea of him laughing off small arms fire, but but getting the crap beat out of him when someone decides to just beat him with their bare hands.
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As far as Catch ideas for the original character...I'd consider some type of drug that could be used in darts, hypodermics, etc.
Perhaps the drug was conveniently 'banned' by the government for health reasons, to limit civilian supply?
So, it would take research to discover, and take a little work (black market contacts) to obtain...unless you're part of the government organization, doing 'legitimate medical research' on the drug.
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What if his catch was some sort of normally harmless over-the-counter drug that reacted with his enhancements somehow? Ibuprofen, for example. It's readily available and easily researchable, but it's not going to be immediately apparent that he's vulnerable to it. GREAT character idea, by the way. I wish I'd thought of it. Our game is set in Albuquerque, and there's a great big government lab complex just begging to produce a character like that.
On a different note, I have a character who I am going to take the Toughness and Recovery powers on at some point. He's a Holy fistfighter who channels angelic power through his body to make his fists burn evil creatures. Right now he's pure mortal except for the Holy Fire, but as he advances I'm going to say that channeling angelic energy has permanently changed his body and take the various Strength, Toughness, and Recovery powers. So! If he has Toughness and Recovery powers as a result of holy energy, what would a good catch be? Note that it can be a +1 or +0 if necessary. I have no problem spending the required refresh points for a power like that. It couldn't be something like Unholy Stuff, because the whole reason he was given this power in the first place is to FIGHT unholy stuff. Maybe some kind of ice magic?
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So! If he has Toughness and Recovery powers as a result of holy energy, what would a good catch be?
I would actually say Holy Energy, so that others emissaries of good and whatnot can injure him....or things from people/creatures that are good. Or even just pure mortals?
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Holy Energy might work. I don't think making the Catch(Pure Mortals) would quite fit, though. Basically, the way I'm seeing it is that Bear has been physically transformed into something more than human by his prolonged exposure to angelic power. Have you ever read the Keys to the Kingdom series? (Spoilers for that series ahead, so proceed with caution). You know Arthur becomes more like a Denizen of the House and less human the more he uses House magic? Same thing. I think having Holy Energy be the catch would be good. It'd basically mean that the only things that could blow through the defenses given to him by God is a stronger power granted by God, which makes sense. That would, however, probably be a +0 Catch, since there aren't many people running around tossing Soulfire and the power of the True Faith.
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Thanks for the comments and ideas, guys. My DM and I decided, for simplicity's sake for our first game, to have his catch be any of the heavier elements (think atomic number 90+), which are largely artificial or radiated.