ParanetOnline
The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Barodahn on July 25, 2010, 10:06:09 PM
-
Ignore this part
-
And since I at least think it is a good idea...
A question for the community.
Not sure exactly how the focus/category thing works out.
Specifically for foci for enchanting.
So, +1 to either strength or frequency is one slot. that is easy.
+1 to strength and +1 to frequency, I thought was just 2 slots, but going by the equation below, total bonus of 2 * types 2 = four slots?
and then +2 to strength and +1 to frequency, how many slots is this? is it just three since they are both a "crafting" bonus? or would it 6, 2 "types" * 3 bonus's = 6
I am just having a hard time following what exactly the "total number of slots a focus item uses is equal to the number of elements or types multiplied by the bonuses"
And could you say use 2 different foci when crafting or for thaumaturgy? (ie, a +2 strength and a +2 frequqncy) For crafting an enchanted sword for example using a hammer and an anvil that are focus items makes sense to me...
Still trying to wrap my head around this system. Thanks!
-
+1 to strength and +1 to frequency, I thought was just 2 slots, but going by the equation below, total bonus of 2 * types 2 = four slots?
and then +2 to strength and +1 to frequency, how many slots is this? is it just three since they are both a "crafting" bonus? or would it 6, 2 "types" * 3 bonus's = 6
I am just having a hard time following what exactly the "total number of slots a focus item uses is equal to the number of elements or types multiplied by the bonuses"
And could you say use 2 different foci when crafting or for thaumaturgy? (ie, a +2 strength and a +2 frequqncy) For crafting an enchanted sword for example using a hammer and an anvil that are focus items makes sense to me...
The first item you mention would be 2 slots and the second would be a 3 slot item. When the rules say "types" they mean types of thaumaturgy (Biomancy, Crafting, Summoning, Worldwalking, etc.). As for using two separate foci, sure, as long as they are not supplying the same kind of bonus (no using two items which both give you a +2 complexity to Summoning and no other bonuses)... or rather, you can but the overlapping bonuses don't stack, you just use the highest.
-
Exactly as Myrddhin says. The only time you need to 'multiply by the elements or types' is if you have a focus item that can be used for more than one type of spell or element. Then you would multiply because the bonuses must always be the same.
For instance:
+2 to control and +1 to complexity (Divination) - 3 slots
+2 to control and +1 to complexity (Divination and Veils) - 6 slots (2 div control + 2 veil control + 1 div complexity + 1 veil complexity)
+2 to control and +1 to complexity (Div) and +1 to control (veil) - not possible in a single item, but can be done as two separate items of 3 slots and 1 slot.
You can also have focus items in thaumaturgic themes like Biomancy as well.
The only bit I'm hazy on is if you mix elements with types or themes, or if you combine a crafting focus with the others. I get the impression that you can't combine evocation focus slots with thaumaturgic focus slots in to the same item. I'm not sure if crafting can be mixed with other themes or if it needs to be separate either. To be honest, I can't imagine it being a big problem, unless someone creates a character that as sworn an oath to only carry one item at a time... which would be daft :)
-
So.. on the enchanted item note...(that can be made with the character that has two refinements into focus item (for crafting) and 2 in enchanted items and a lore 5, and specialization's for crafting as well)
How would you do an enchanted net or something similar? intended as a grapple effect...
So i would have to have a maneuver to place "all tied up" aspect.
But you can't have two different effects on an enchanted item so how do you give it a "might" effect to roll?
I have 9 shifts to work with for this character...
Or would it just be a simpler "block", 6 shifts of block, 3 for duration? Would that have same effect of grapple? just without the extra bonuses?
-
--- snip ---
+1 to strength and +1 to frequency, I thought was just 2 slots, but going by the equation below, total bonus of 2 * types 2 = four slots?
and then +2 to strength and +1 to frequency, how many slots is this? is it just three since they are both a "crafting" bonus? or would it 6, 2 "types" * 3 bonus's = 6
--snip--
And could you say use 2 different foci when crafting or for thaumaturgy? (ie, a +2 strength and a +2 frequqncy) For crafting an enchanted sword for
--snip--
I have seen nothing to indicate you can't use multiple focus items. (And multiple places where it talks about gathering your focus items <PLURAL> when getting ready to cast a spell )
However, you cannot put 2 different numerical bonuses on the same focus item.
In your example you have +2 to Crafting Strength and +1 to Crafting Frequency. This is not permitted according to to page YS278
All bonuses of an item always
apply to all of the types on the item: you can’t
have +2 complexity for necromancy and +1
complexity for wards in the same focus item,
Very sad but it's rather specific on the subject.
(You could always do your own house rules of course if you prefer it).
-
So.. on the enchanted item note...(that can be made with the character that has two refinements into focus item (for crafting) and 2 in enchanted items and a lore 5, and specialization's for crafting as well)
How would you do an enchanted net or something similar? intended as a grapple effect...
So i would have to have a maneuver to place "all tied up" aspect.
But you can't have two different effects on an enchanted item so how do you give it a "might" effect to roll?
I have 9 shifts to work with for this character...
Or would it just be a simpler "block", 6 shifts of block, 3 for duration? Would that have same effect of grapple? just without the extra bonuses?
Unless you're throwing multiple slots into it you can't do 2 different effects with a magic item. So it will all have to be in one.
You could start with page YS293 where they give an example of an 'Entanglement' spell. It's not lethal, but remember you will want to put as many shifts in power as you can to hold your target.
You may in fact be better off doing this as a one time magic item (aka- Potion).
Frequency gives you multiple uses of those as well. per YS280
Crafting specializations for items and potions
aren’t used for control or complexity; they
usually affect frequency or strength without
making you spend an extra slot to do it.
And in the last paragraph on the same page it talks about boosting the power of a potion on the fly.
You say you have 9 shifts. And you have a 5 Lore.
So the max strength you can put in by default is 5.
This doesn't seem to include crafting bonuses or bonuses from more slots.
(not that I've seen anyway).
And we know that the maximum Effect Strength of an Item (and a potion is still an item) is TWICE your Lore. (If you're curious it's on the same page just above the example of Harry's 3 slots.)
So your max Strength is 10, but only 5 of it comes from your base. The rest you have to build on with foci, etc...
So I'd put as much into Strength as you could and still get the duration you want.
Then on the fly you may need to boost it some more. (or you may not...who knows).
Hope this helps!!
-
However, you cannot put 2 different numerical bonuses on the same focus item.
In your example you have +2 to Crafting Strength and +1 to Crafting Frequency. This is not permitted according to to page YS278
But crafting IS one category, is what i thought was said by people earlier in the thread? At least that was my impression, since crafting is a bit wierd i am unsure though.
-
Crafting has 3 areas.
- Frequency == More Uses Per Day
- Focus Items == Able to put more +'s on focus items(caveat you can't use a focus item to make a focus item!)
- Strength == Stronger Item Effects.
All that is on YS280 btw.
And yes...crafting is not heavily detailed.....took me a lot of digging to find a lot of things...and searching these forums to find where devs answered questions *laugh*
-
right, but by my read frequency/strength is the equivalent to doing +1 control and +1 complexity for veils or whatever, and that could go on one item
edit... not that it really matters, could just structure as a +2 strength a +2 frequency you use to make enchantments
-
right, but by my read frequency/strength is the equivalent to doing +1 control and +1 complexity for veils or whatever, and that could go on one item
Yes, one focus item could have +1 to both control and complexity
what you can't do is put one at +1 and the other +2
-
since it isn't an item that is carried, really fine for it to be a "workshop" focus items anyway, it's not like you need it in the field like you do for evocation foci.
Edit: and yes, entanglement is perfect for that, thanks.
edit2: sort of, this just applies the ASPECT right? it doesn't actually perform a block to prevent them from doing things? or am i misunderstanding something?
-
Certainly. +2 for both strength and frequency works fine.
Just so you know you can't change your focus items until you hit a 'significant milestone' (See page YS89) . (Which kind of annoyed me, because until I found that little door slammer I was going to do exactly what you were talking about and have lots of focus items and just swap em every day or so as needed.)
-
Not switching focus items, instead having focus items to have stronger enchanted items, which i currently have 12 slots of, lol.
-
Hmmmmm and how many laws did you break to get that many? :P
-
Lol, none. 2 refinements, all to enchanted items. and the ones from thaumaturgy also.
4*3 = 12 slots.
-
Just want to correct a misinterpretation that has sprung up in this thread. The line about bonuses affecting all types on the item doesn't mean you can't have different bonuses for power, control, complexity, crafting strength, etc. on the same item. What it means is that if you have a certain bonus, say +2 control to something, then if you add a control bonus to any other type of magic, it also has to be +2. But if you put a different type of bonus on the item, like a complexity bonus, it follows its own track.
Example: Say my wizard character has a focus item for +2 to complexity for wards. I can add on a +2 complexity for biomancy as well, but I can't add on a +1 complexity for it. I can then take a +1 control for wards, but if I've already put the +2 complexity for biomancy on the item, I have to add the +1 control for biomancy as well.
You can see examples in the book of having different amounts for different bonuses on the same focus item in the entry for Russel Carson on YS pg. 388, and the discussion on pg. 302 about Harry's blasting rod indicates that this is possible as well.
-
Okay, so did i build this character right or did i mess up somewhere then? i can't tell anymore
Aspects
High Concept Wielder of the Sword of Life and Death
Trouble I don't believe in the fast stuff
Background Weaponmaster
Rising Conflict An enchantment for every occasion
The Story
Guest Starring
Redux
I need to have aspecs that are easier to compel but i can't think of any....
Superb Weapons, Lore
Great Resources, Crafting
Good Discipline, Alertness
Fair Endurance, Presence, Rapport
Average Scholarship, Athletics, Conviction, Empathy, Investigation
Thaumaturgy -3, 4 enchanted item slot, specialization, crafting power +1
The Sight -1
Soulgaze 0
Wizards Constitution (replaced by supernatural recovery) 0
Footwork (for weapons) -1
Item of Power (The Sword of Life and Death) 2
Supernatural Recovery -4
Catch (hard time wording, see next post) 3
refinement, 2 focus slots -1 Power +1, Frequency +1
Refinement, 2 focus slots -1 Power +1, Frequency +1
or each of these could be 1 +2
Refinement, 2 specialization slots -1 Specialization, +1 power, +1 frequency
Refinement, 4 Enchanted Item slots -1
Refinement, 4 Enchanted Item slots -1
Enchanted Item
Base Shifts Effect
Katana (always weapon 3), Weapon 9, 6 uses, 2 slots, also his item of power
Armor Bracers, Block 8 or armor 4, 1 shift additional duration, 6 uses, 2 slots
Throwing Daggers, Counterspell 9, 4 uses, 1 slot
Wakazashi (akways weaon 2), Weapon 9, 4 uses, 1 slot,
Magic Arrows, Weapon 6, Effects entire zone, 4 uses, 1 slot
Potion of Speed, Athletics 6, 3 shifts for additional duration, 4 uses, 1 slot
Potion Slot left open, 4 uses, 1 slot
Potion Slot left open, 4 uses, 1 slot
2 free slots left i have not decided on.
(one of which will be the entangling option when i figure out how to make it work)
-
I can't read the formatting for your enchanted item slots very well, and they seem to be missing information (like how many slots each item uses, and how many uses each one has). I'm not even sure what the effects of most of some of those items are.
Beyond that, your catch is less than +3. Dismemberment is at least an Extreme Consequence, and Beheading sounds like a taken out effect, so that would be hard to qualify for anything on the catch. Look at the catch for the Hags in Our World, which only get a +1 for the catch which works with any physical consequence.
-
Oops. Okay, that should be clearer now
Did i go wrong somewhere in this calculation?
I think part of the problem i have is that i think the catch really needs to be worded/worked a bit differently for recovery, since it is not Bypassing toughness per-say, but saying what he doesn't recover from...i could change it to magic perhaps, since as you can tell he is essentially a weapon user....
Catch Calculation
Protects against everything +0
Bypassed by something anyone could reasonably get access to. Anything being removed/cut off the body won't heal, limb, ear, hair, finger, head, etc is my basic idea for the catch +2, and swords or something that can do that are pretty easy to get.
Something researchable, +1 (background for the character is he comes from a family of swordsmiths and enchanters, and they often make sword of healing and the like)
Edit: Would something like sword must be sheathed work as a catch also?? So the recovery won't actually be usable in combat unless he can sheath it?
-
just FYI for character play...
This site might be fun to use for those spell words
http://www.robobunny.com/cgi-bin/dislexicon/dlc
Dislexicon: The English Language Extender
This is what I got when I typed in the word 'fire'
New Word Components Definition
1: firephore fire-phore bearer of fire
2: fireaqueous fire-aqueous watery fire
3: fireate fire-ate resembling or characterized by fire
4: spirarefire spirare-fire breathe fire
5: fireize fire-ize to cause to be or to become fire
6: fireably fire-ably performing in a manor worth of fire
7: firevore fire-vore to eat, devour fire
8: hematofire hemato-fire blood fire
9: prefireosis pre-fire-osis abnormal condition or process of before or prior to fire
10: fireine fire-ine made of or resembling fire
-
@Barodahn Most of those items look correct. The magic arrows are actually a weapon 7 effect. I'm don't believe the potion of speed is kosher. You can have magic mimic the use of a skill, but not give you the skill altogether. so it could be a 6 shift sprint effect that lasts 3 rounds, or a 6 shift dodge effect, or a 6 shift (insert other athletics trapping) effect, but all of those together does not work.
Your problem with calculating the catch is that its an abnormal catch in and of itself, so it makes sense that the explicit methods given in the book for calculating it don't work. The spirit of the rules for coming up with the catch value is to figure out how likely it is for one of your opponents to bring the catch into play (non-accidentally). It just so happens that the Hecatean hags give a very good example of this kind of catch. They have a +1 catch, and any kind of physical consequence whatsoever brings it into play. Of course, that catch doesn't work well with recovery powers since those powers only mean something when consequences come into play. But still, that is a good guideline of how to value the catch.
Protects against everything +0, you have this part correct
Bypassed by something anyone could reasonably get access too... No. Being able to dismember and behead your character is not something that anyone could reasonably be able to do. Not even close. Such an accomplishment is only possible if they've pretty much already beat you in a fight. Even a +1 here is stretching it by a lot.
Something Researchable - Do they have to know you in order to know what to research? If so, its not worth anything. If its something that someone could find through research before ever knowing anything about you, and then realize that it applies to you, then its a +1.
-
Hm, going to have to rethink the catch thing i guess then.
thanks for the magic arrows, i thought zone effect was 3 shifts
okay, so magic can only effect ONE trapping of a skill at a time then?
Would this work for a capture type spell, Offensive block 6, 3 shifts to duration? Is that all it would take to prevent them from doing things? (don't want it to be damaging)
On catch value, so how about making it an out of combat heal only? So you don't get to clear minor consequences? He could only have it operate while sheathed? Would that work for a catch? What value might that be worth?
What would say w sheathed + meditating be worth?
and wow that was a barrage of questions, ... maybe i should just take out some refinements and have less limited healing? i mean, right now he is kind of an insane starting character anyway....