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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Tbora on July 03, 2010, 11:46:05 PM
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Okay this thread is for a reworking of my mordite scythe wielding grim reaper style "Servant of Death" character.
I want this to be done with 18 Refresh, 60 skill points, capped at Fantastic.
So here is what I got so far.
[-1] Marked by Power
[-1] Living Dead
[-6] Mythic Speed
[+1] Feeding Dependency (Death) effecting;
[-4] Supernatural Toughness
[+2] Holy Stuff
Death's Scythe:
[+2] Item of Power effecting;
[-2] Ritual (Ectomancy)
[-2] Refinement (Extra Item Slots)
[-1] True Aim (As the Sword of the Cross power of the same name)
[-3] All Things Die (As of the Sword of the Cross power 'All Things Are Equal Before God')
Total Refresh Left: 3 (or for practical purposes 2 in regards to what I can further spend.)
Enchanted Item
Mordite Scythe Blade (Weapon: 10 attack with Weapons, thirteen times per session) [12 Item Slots]
So I need to ideas to what I can spend the last of the refresh on.
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That doesn't quite work, you need to add Ritual (Ectomancy) either to the character or the item or he can't have Item Slots at all.
I also reccomend Inhuman Recovery so he can actually heal on his own (assuming the GM rules that it trumps Living Dead, which it should, IMO).
And, when I've got more time, I might redesign the Scythe to work with Lore at Fantastic, which would be even nastier, if you like.
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Okay I added in the ectomancy (and adjusted the refresh cost accordingly.), and as for the recovery power, for one of his aspects I am going to have a "friend of the mortician" thing who will hook him up with repairs when he is not in the middle of a battle.His sheer amount capability to lay out the smackdown along with his supernatural toughness should be enough to see him through until he can get repairs.That said I'll take Inhuman Recovery if you think its absolutely necessary.Personally I'd rather invest it in say extra refinement, and make the scythe last longer and be even deadlier, but that is just me.
And yeah if you have time, can you change the scythe to be even nastier with the correspondingly higher lore?
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Looks like you are assuming superb (+5) lore. You get 4 enchanted item slots from ritual, and then 8 more from refinement.
So the exact magic item slot breakdown for the scythe looks like this:
base:
weapon 5 1/ session (1 slot)
Use another 5 slots for more power ->
Power 10 1/session (6 slots total so far)
Then use another 6 slots for frequency ->
Power 10 13/session (12 slots total)
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So with a fantastic (+6) lore, you could save 1 enchanted item slot for something else, like this:
base:
weapon 6 1/ session (1 slot)
Use another 4 slots for more power ->
Power 10 1/session (5 slots total so far)
Then use another 6 slots for frequency ->
Power 10 13/session (11 slots total)
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or up the base damage by 1 (to weapon: 11) or up the frequency by 2 (to 15/session)
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Here is the character stats;
Fantastic: Lore, Weapons
Superb: Athletics, Endurance
Great: Alertness, Intimidation, Stealth
Good: Conviction, Discipline, Contacts
Fair: Survival, Presence, Guns, Presence, Fists
Average: Might, Deceit, Investigation, Burglary, Driving, Resources,Performance
EDIT: Can you show me how it would look with two more refinements, and then with one more refinement.
My reasoninging being I am either going to take 2 levels of refinement further, or take riposte and a single level of refinement.
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Just to be clear, you know Mordite is beyond our reality? It does more than just kill people I think, but completely annihilates them and is an anathema to everything in our reality. A guy with a Mordite-based weapon seems more like a servant of the outsiders rather than something remotely "natural." IMHO.
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1) Mordite is not from beyond the Outer Gates, its from the farthest reaches of the Nevernever, according to the books.
2) He serves Death, as in the Grim Reaper, Mordite aka Death Stone, is not something he would have a problem with, serving well Death Incarnate.
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1) Mordite is not from beyond the Outer Gates, its from the farthest reaches of the Nevernever, according to the books.
You sure about this? I thought the mistfiend, or whatever the heck it was called was from the depths of Nevernever.
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IIRC, you can only make an item with total power = to 2 times your lore, and the max number of slots for a staff sized item is 12. So you are almost as far as you can go on the scythe already.
If you absloutely must add more power, you can trade use the other point of refinement for a +1 crafting strength focus item (and have the other 'half' of your refinement point left over)
So it'd look like:
Base:
weapon 7 1/ session (1 slot)
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weapon 12 1/session (another 5 slots)
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13/session (another 6 slots)
total 12 slots
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The lore rule is not an issue, as he is not the creator of the scythe, the Grim Reaper is, who handed him the weapon as a symbol of his authority and a tool to wield against those the Reaper sets him against.Think of it like a Warden's Sword.
So how would it be done, assuming his Lore was not a limitation for how powerful it can be?
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1) Mordite is not from beyond the Outer Gates, its from the farthest reaches of the Nevernever, according to the books.
2) He serves Death, as in the Grim Reaper, Mordite aka Death Stone, is not something he would have a problem with, serving well Death Incarnate.
Don't know where you got that idea. From Death Masks:
"You do not understand, Miss Rodriguez," Ortega said quietly. "Mordite is not from this galaxy or this universe. It is not of our reality."
I had reservations about Ortega's presence on the home-team roster, but I nodded. "It's from Outside. It's … congealed antilife. A chip of this stuff makes nuclear waste look like secondhand smoke. Being near it draws the life off you bit by bit. If you touch it, it kills you. Period."
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Mordite Scythe
[+2] one-time discount
It is what it is: weapon 4
[-2] Souleater: by spending a Fate point, the wielder can have the scythe deal mental stress when striking living beings for that encounter as it sucks the life out of them. This however loosens the bindings upon the Mordite that is the scythe's material and the wielder (or anyone touching the scythe) is affected by Obliteration (see below)
[-6] Deathstrike: the scythe's blade gives +6 attack power. The scythe's handle gives +6 to weapon skill offense. (this is priced as refinement spent on foci with the scythe being two foci, assuming a Lore of fantastic for the item's creator, applying a focus bonus on weapons instead of magic)
[-3] Obliteration: a living target hit by the scythe, assuming it survives, still must roll defense vs the attacker's modified weapon skill at every exchange and take stress as the wound dealt continues to leech their life. This continues until the target is obliterated or very powerful magic is used to break the process. (based on venomous, only a bit nastier)
So, even without lowering the bindings, it is Weapon 10 at Ungodly (+12) skill and someone hit that survives must roll vs Ungodly (+12) difficulty every exchange and take stress until they crumble to dust. If you spent a fate point for Souleater, they crumble to dust that much faster (usually instantly) but unless you're dead or something, you crumble to dust as well.
(this is how I'd do the statting for real mordite, not something that merely mimicks its effects to an extent. One hit and you die, no ifs and buts.)
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EDIT: Can you show me how it would look with two more refinements, and then with one more refinement.
My reasoninging being I am either going to take 2 levels of refinement further, or take riposte and a single level of refinement.
I'd go with the second.
That said, at 16 tem Slots, and assuming it was created with an effective Lore of 8 by the Grim Reaper (as high as I'd allow even a God's Lore to be):
Mordite Scythe Blade (Weapon: 16 attack with Weapons, fifteen times per session) [16 Item Slots]
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So here is the total build, all put together,
High Concept: ?
Trouble: The Grim Reaper Is My Boss, And He's A Real D-bag
Other Aspects: Death is my Bread and Butter; My Scythe Kills Things - Period.;?;?;?
Skills
Fantastic: Athletics, Weapons
Superb: Alertness, Endurance
Great: Lore, Intimidation, Discipline
Good: Conviction, Presence, Stealth
Fair: Survival, Guns, Fists. Contacts, Empathy
Average: Might, Investigation, Burglary, Driving, Resources,Performance, Deceit
Powers:
[-1] Marked by Power
[-1] Living Dead
[-6] Mythic Speed
[+1] Feeding Dependency (Death) effecting;
[-4] Supernatural Toughness
[+2] Holy Stuff
Death's Scythe:
[+2] Item of Power effecting;
[-2] Ritual (Ectomancy)
[-3] Refinement (Extra Item Slots)
[-1] True Aim (As the Sword of the Cross power of the same name)
[-3] All Things Die (As of the Sword of the Cross power 'All Things Are Equal Before God')
Stunts:
[-1] Riposte: On a successful defense with Weapons, you may sacrifice your next action to turn that defense into an immediate and automatically successful attack. Your attacker must be within range of your weapon, and if you’re mounting a full defense (YS199) you do not get the benefit of the +2 bonus when your defense roll converts to an attack roll.
Total Refresh Left: 1
Enchanted Item
Death's Scythe (Weapon: 16 attack with Weapons, fifteen times per session) [16 Item Slots]
Stress Tracks:
Physical: OOOO (OOOO) (+1 Additional Physical Mild Consequence)
Mental: OOOO
Social: OOOO
Hunger: OOOO
Armor: 2
I am not too sure about the stresses, so I'd like that checked over by someone if possible.
Also, I need some good aspects for this character. His character concept is a mortal who got murdered in a Quick n Stop gas station when he was in paying for a candy bar, and for reasons unknown to him instead of heading to the afterlife like he should have, he was shanghaied into serving the Grim Reaper, given a Scythe of incredible power and hooked up with a new body (an old skeleton) as his previous one was cremated.Now he wields the Reaper's Scythe serving Death as the Demi-God's enforcer, killing those violate the dead, such as Black Court Vampires, Necromancers, and other such nasty pieces of work.
Also, as a side note, I'd like a general opinion of the character as a whole, in both his effectiveness, and him, staying true to his character concept as a whole mechanically.
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Looks good mechanically, with the sole exception of him either needing to lose a box of Social Stress or raise his Presence to Good.
Also, you have Presence listed (and paid for) twice.
Additionally, you have no real Social Defense of any sort, if you don't want him to be easily persuaded I'd do something about that.
I'll get back to you on Aspects.
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Looks good mechanically, with the sole exception of him either needing to lose a box of Social Stress or raise his Presence to Good.
Also, you have Presence listed (and paid for) twice.
Fixed
Additionally, you have no real Social Defense of any sort, if you don't want him to be easily persuaded I'd do something about that.
Like what, what do you think I should change/add?
I'll get back to you on Aspects.
Cool
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BTW, would you skill consider this guy to be an offensive god?
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Pretty close, yeah. Things he hits (which he does often at Epic skill), tend to just die. Eving Mythic Toughness characters are gonna know they've been hit and be forced to take a Moderate Consequence or the equivalent per hit. He does need to hit, but with Riposte and his effective 8 skill on Defense, hat's not gonna be too hard.
As for defensive social skills, I might drop Deceit back to Average and grab Empathy at Fair. That'd be some semblance of a defense, at least.
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Pretty close, yeah. Things he hits (which he does often at Epic skill), tend to just die. Eving Mythic Toughness characters are gonna know they've been hit and be forced to take a Moderate Consequence or the equivalent per hit. He does need to hit, but with Riposte and his effective 8 skill on Defense, hat's not gonna be too hard.
Is that taking into account his ability to meet the catch of anything by spending a fate point?
As for defensive social skills, I might drop Deceit back to Average and grab Empathy at Fair. That'd be some semblance of a defense, at least.
Will do, thanks for the suggestion.
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Is that taking into account his ability to meet the catch of anything by spending a fate point?
No. If he does that things just die in two hits at most, taking every Consequence they have short of Extreme not to die in one. Of course, that costs him 1 FP per target.
Will do, thanks for the suggestion.
No problem, happy to help as always. :)
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Now I just need an appropriate high concept and several good aspects....
And would you consider this guy too insanely powerful to eve be viable in any sort of campaign short of the epic, way over the top, drowned, sitting on the sea floor games?
And how would you rate him as an NPC for Physical Confrontation?
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I wouldn't make him an NPC unless you want all your characters to quit on you in their first encounter with him. With mythic speed he will always have the drop on EVERYONE. With +6 alertness, even if your PC's took mythic speed for some reason he'd still most likely have the drop on them. With mythic speed and +3 stealth no one will be able to block him. With a fate point to satisfy every catch, he'll be able to take out everyone in a group at his refresh level in a couple turns unless they all have mythic toughness and/or recovery.
Honestly I wouldn't play in any game that had this character, whether he be a PC, GMPC or NPC. He's insurmountable without serious plot devices as an NPC and as a PC or GM PC he'll just deus ex machina everything, leaving the players feeling cheated out of a decent gaming experience.
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Well, for 18 refresh, I'd say thats pretty good :P
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Eh, he's not too bad as a PC (he's comparatively weak against hordes of mooks, for example), or even a non-combat encounter (where his low Social Defense can be used to talk him into or out of killing someone or something).
As a combat encounter or full-on GMPC? Yeah, I'd quit the game too. The only things that have a prayer (even at comparable Refresh) are really good Evocaters, and people with Wings and ranged attacks. That's literally it, as an NPC he'll flat-out kill anything else without breaking a sweat...which will either leave the PCs dead, or feeling useless in a fight.
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Hey DMW, just for curiousities sake, can you help me wargame my way in creating a character built specifically to beat this monstrousity of mine?
I'm curious at what it would take.
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In a straight fight? He's pretty close to unstoppable. A 10 or 11 Shift Evocation specialist could do it and not a lot else. But the easiest way, is to cheat:
Someone with Wings, Fantastic Guns, and Mythic Speed could remain outside his range and gradually shoot him to death, particularly with blessed ammunition. His lack of ranged attacks is notable.
A White Court Vampire (or anyone else with Incite Emotion with all the upgrades) with Fantastic Deceit and/or Intimidation can also destroy him in Mental Combat...but not quickly enough to keep him from killing them if he realizes what they're doing unless they too have Mythic Speed to stay out of his reach...and he can likely escape them even if they do.
That's actually about all I can think of, honestly. Several other character types can hurt him, but not as fast as he hurts them, resulting in a net win for him as they die while he's still only injured.
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So pretty much for 18 refresh you (as it is mostly you) have created for me a monster that could lay even shagnasty in the gutter.
My hats off to you sir.
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Yeah...Shagnasty can actually, in theory, get Mythic Speed, Breath Weapon, and Wings and eventually kill this guy...but not if this guy gets the drop on him.
And thanks for the praise, I do try. :)
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So can you help me come up with some aspects for him (though I doubt I will ever find a game to play him in.) so I can put the done stamp on him?
BTW, what would you say to New Orleans for a city to play a campaign in?
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I don't think he's that powerful for a 17 refresh. A full wizard evocator specialist at that refresh level is pulling 15-shift evocations at control 16. Either he can splattify anything at a single blow and still have 10-shift blocks or have ridiculous 16-shift blocks and 10-shift attacks. (6 conviction +5 focus +4 specialization \ 6 discipline +5 focus +5 specialization) Someone with dodge as a primary skill and Mythic Speed already has Legendary+1 defense before any powers or stunts so Fantastic attacks won't trouble them much. Sidhe at that level can simply walk around with Greater Glamours and stay hidden while they mindrape you with Incite Emotion and a hulking-size Mythic Might opponent could use a locomotive as a melee weapon. What's the weapon rating on a 70-ton steel club?
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An evocator would never have initiative. He'd need at a minimum, legendary alertness to have a chance at spotting the guy. If its dark out he's sol. So he would need at least superhuman toughness or an armor 6 enchanted item to survive for a second round. If the reaper emissary spends a fate point he'd only be saved by an enchanted item.
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You are forgetting rituals. A paranoid wizard at that level could always cast Foresight. A, say, 20 shift divination ritual that gives an alertness 15 effect to warn vs attacks that lasts a month or so, periodically renewed.
That's probably similar to what the Gatekeeper has up to predict events.
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Bellial, I don't see where it states in the DFRPG books that you can use magic to increase skills.
Perhaps a magical manoeuvre to create the aspect 'Super Aware' for 3 shifts is possible and then you could create additional tags for it by multiplying the cost of the aspect by the amount of tags required (lets say 5 more times to get 'good' awareness up to +15), plus another 10 shifts if we assume the aspect would normally last a few minutes without extension.
That makes a spell that'd give you the 'super aware' aspect for a month, taggable 6 times for free and further times would require a fate point and that'd be at a complexity of... 28 shifts. Oh except that you can only tag an aspect once for a roll.
Well, you could create a series of spells, each providing a relevant aspect like 'Heightened Senses', 'Fast Reactions', 'Deja Vu' and so forth, each costing 13 shifts to cast, with a further 3 shifts for each free tag after that.
Of course... as your GM I'd eventually compel all of the aspects to give you the consequence 'Burn Out' or 'Too Sensitive' or something :)
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He's insurmountable without serious plot devices as an NPC and as a PC or GM PC he'll just deus ex machina everything, leaving the players feeling cheated out of a decent gaming experience.
You can take him out as a 10 refresh wizard with some prep.
Step 1, figure out a way to survive or avoid the 1st attack. Possibly by ambush from beneath a veil (around power 6 should do the job).
Step 2:
Have a block vs movement that lasts a few exchanges that is resisted by might. Since this guy only has +1 might, a power 4 duration 4 block is probably going to be good enough.
Step 3:
Have an attack spell that is resisted with might, like earthstomp
Combat would look like:
Wizards 1st action: Use block vs movement. This keeps the grim reaper from coming up to you and hitting you, it also prevents him from escaping.
Following actions:
earth stomp a lot. Assuming you are generating control 6 power 6 earth stomps, you are hitting for about 11 shifts of damage each time (9 after armor).
so:
1st stomp: (9 damage after armor, minor consequence + 7 stress)
OOOO(OOXO) minor consequence
2nd stomp:
+2 bonus for tagging the minor consequence
(11 damage after armor, moderate consequence + 7 stress, rolling up to 8th slot)
OOOO(OOXX) minor + moderate consequence
3rd stomp:
+2 bonus for tagging the moderate consequence
(11 damage after armor, severe consequence + 5 stress)
OOOO(XOXX) minor + moderate + severe consequence
[...]
The 4th stomp is good for an extreme consequence, but as your presumed power 4 duration 4 blo0ck is running out, it looks like you won't quite pull it off. But you've come quite close. If you can produce a slightly longer duration block, or pull of slightly more powerful earth stomps, or something, you can probably finish the job.
A mortal with holy touch who knows how to wrestle might also be able to pull this off, since they don't have to eat through the armor and extra stress boxes provided by toughness. Of course, they'd have to avoid the first attack and get a favorable aspect. But a 6 refresh champion of god with great might and some luck might be able to kill you too.
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Or Disarm him?
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Belial666: That's a hideously optimized Wizard (way more focused than I'd ever allow, BTW), but yeah, that'd do it. The Sidhe is...possible, but he does have Alertness 6 and a fairly good chance of seeing through the Glamour before he's totally screwed, and he likely just kills the Sidhe if he gets the drop on them. As for Mythic Speed, that's what Riposte is for :).
John Galt: Yeah, but most powerful Evocaters will have some sort of defensive item, which'll likely save them for at least a bit.
CMEast: Look at Hyperawareness. You can't use magic to increase skills, but it can potentially replace them. Doesn't help on intitiative vs. Mythic Speed, though, and thus not meaningfully on defending against this guy. The Wizard really needs one of those Defensive Items to survive.
Disarming would also absolutely work in theory, but it's easier said than done.
crusher_bob: A Wizard with prep-time and a detailed knowledge of what they're facing can destroy anything else there is. That's just how they work. Everyone has at least one weak skill for the Wizard to target.
You do make an excellent point in general about this guy being weak against grapples...except that you can use Athletics (which he has at Legendary due to Mythic Speed) to escape from them, so they're a one round annoyance at worst, and re-establishing them will cost a Fate Point.
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You can only block with initiative. No evocator would ever have that. Claiming a wizard who is perpetually paranoid about this PARTICULAR enemy could take him makes him vulnerable is silly. That's what wizards do. They are the deadliest enemies in thedresdenverse if they know what's coming and have time to prepare. But ninety nine times out of one hundred, no evocator is going to have that advantage on this guy. He's easily always hidden and kills his victim before they have time to blink, let alone find weaknesses and spread the word
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Aha good point, I didn't think of it as a block but if I were the GM I would only allow it to be used for one trapping of alertness i.e. you can either have initiative or avoid ambush but not both.
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Um, Enchanted Items require no action and can thus be used reflexively in response to an attack. A powerful enough one will save the Wizard, though that's about the only thing that will.
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Armor would cap at 6 shifts with fantastic lore.... a few fate points from grim and that's not going to cut it...
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Armor would cap at 6 shifts with fantastic lore.... a few fate points from grim and that's not going to cut it...
Uh, it caps at twice your Lore in Shifts, which would admittedly be Armor: 6 and not enough...or up to a 12 shift Block and plenty.
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... yes. That's what I said. And you still need initiative to use that 12 shift block
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... yes. That's what I said. And you still need initiative to use that 12 shift block
Not with an Enchanted Item you don't. All defensive item uses are reflexive, not just Armor.
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The Reaper char (imho totally broken by the way, no offense) is not limited by his Lore for his enchanted items... so why would the character trying to beat him be?
Give the Wizard an enchanted item, limited the same way as this mordite scythe. That makes it into a 8 power base item, 8 more slots for power, 3 slots for uses, 12 slots total... +16 block 7 times... now build a highly offensive centered evocator... bye bye Reaper... he'd need at least 3 fate points or tags to hit that Wizard...
One broken concept defeated by another broken concept.
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Personally I don't consider the character to be broken.Extremely powerful absolutely.But not broken, he still has exploitable weaknesses.And what your talking about not being limited by his lore, if he wanted an another item, then yes he wouldn't be.The item in question is no different from the Warden's Swords, and further more created by the Grim Reaper, a God Class entity.Any item that would equal it in potency would have to have plot justification as well, and I doubt that any GM would put together something specifically to limit a PC's character concept like that out of hand.
Tbora
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Personally I don't consider the character to be broken.Extremely powerful absolutely.But not broken, he still has exploitable weaknesses.And what your talking about not being limited by his lore, if he wanted an another item, then yes he wouldn't be.The item in question is no different from the Warden's Swords, and further more created by the Grim Reaper, a God Class entity.Any item that would equal it in potency would have to have plot justification as well, and I doubt that any GM would put together something specifically to limit a PC's character concept like that out of hand.
Tbora
So your character ISN't broken. But there is unlikely to be any other item that powerful in any game you play unless the GM goes out of his way to create something that can compete. And you ask questions like 'is this character an offensive god' and 'is there anything that could possibly kill him' and people have to struggle to come up with creatures and scenarios which are totally bent around killing him. But it's not broken.
I'm glad you're happy with him Tbora, I hope you have lots of fun playing the DFRPG with people of a like mind and a GM that revels in creating absurdly epic scenarios. I don't plan to be in any of those campaigns with you though, and I hope that no-one else that creates a character for fun rather than abusing the rules to min-max some absurdly broken concept will be either because you'll ruin the game for them completely.
/me steps off of his soapbox. Sorry :)
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Ahem, ahem.
First I disagree with your statement, and I find it ever so slightly trollish in tone (though I may be completely wrong as I have been before.)
And as you have stated, as I myself have said, this IS for one of the games that is way over the top, and is built to be around as such.I don't personally consider it to be broken when you toss in a game where the minimum enemy refresh level is mid thirties.In any lesser scenario he would be and is broken.But by comparison is not when slammed in such games.Quite frankly I take offense at what your implying, if your coming into this topic just to flame, then GTFO ------>
Your presence is neither wanted or required.
Good day, Tbora