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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Steed on July 02, 2010, 04:12:28 PM
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Howdy. I just bought the PDF combo pack the other day and really love everything about them, but the system is pretty different from what I'm used to so I've got a couple questions. I was trying to explore character creation by coming up with a character from the ground up, but ran into a little trouble and wanted to bring them before you guys for some advice.
Basically, what I'm trying to do is make a Frankenstein's Creature type guy. Ideally he'd be a straight-up "woke up in a lab, brought to life by lightning" guy, but if the consensus is that it's not feasible and the Dresden universe it could conceivably be changed to a golem formerly serving a dark wizard that turned against its master and got all scarred up during the resulting conflict. I have his High Concept, Trouble, and one of his aspects in mind already, but other than that, I'm open to suggestions/advice. The part I need the most help with is determining the supernatural powers he should take. I picture him as a pretty traditional Frankenstein guy, so probably at least Inhuman Strength and Inhuman Toughness, as well as high Might and Endurance skills.
As for the High Concept, this is what I've got: Monster with a Heart of Gold- Much like the Creature in the original novel, the guy doesn't start out as a monster and is shaped into one by the hatred and fear present in society. I still picture him having goodness in his heart of hearts, but he's been hurt and sometimes just wants to lash out and make others hurt. It's something he struggles with every day, which leads nicely into...
...his Trouble: The Monster in the Mirror- Try as he might to deny it, he isn't human, and is reminded of this every time he looks in the mirror. He's done bad, bad things in the past while in the grips of his terrible, vitriolic rage and struggles with this every day. Sometimes it just seems easier to give into the darkness than fight it, but he tries his best not to.
And his one aspect that I definitely want is: Nightmare Fuel on Legs- While able to hide behind long coats, hoods, bandages, and the like, anyone that sees him reacts badly. While not immediately getting the cops called on him, largely due to human tendencies to rationalize away the impossible, his appearance is enough to frighten even hardened criminals. He's big and scarred up and something is just wrong about him, and it often resuts in his being cast out like a leper in polite or even marginally okay society. Red light districts, seedier areas in cities, and the sewers are really his only refuge. On the one hand, this can be one hell of a boon when trying to intimidate somebody. On the other, if he even sneezes in the Olive Garden people will assume he's making trouble and run him - and anyone with him, very likely - right outta there. (Basically, invoked for creative interrogations and compelled to make it harder to make connections or to jump immediately to the torch-and-pitchfork scenario.) ETA: I just realized this could also make for a fun compel to use at the end of a fight. Maybe that last shot the enemy got on him tore his hood off, or maybe that pyromancer (or wizard or whatever) burned his coat to tatters. Just try getting home without those things while alchemical reagents ooze from your wounds instead of blood.
So that's what I've got "set in stone" so to speak. I also had an idea that maybe folks in the red light districts and seedier areas are hardened enough to deal with him, and so he lives there and sort of acts as their unofficial protector. (Maybe a Helps The Hopeless aspect, or something. Alternately that could just be covered by the "heart of gold" part of his High Concept.) If he were a straight-up Frankenstein, I'd also probably give him some kind of Orphan-esque aspect (perhaps called One of a Kind?) to represent that he really has no one and nothing to depend on.
So, thoughts? Suggestions? Ideas for the supernatural "package" he would need?
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Are you using the book version or the movie version? They are totally different in their approaches.
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Oh, I know. Frankenstein is one of my favorite books. I'm relying much more on the novel.
ETA: I should probably also mention I'm thinking of him as a Submerged level character. I wouldn't mind adjusting him upward to a higher level of power, but I don't know how well he'd work at a lower refresh level.
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You know, it actually sounds like you have the bulk of the work done already. I can see fodder for several Aspects in there. Good show so far.
Having a goal is always a good thing. The monster might want to become a real boy (as it were), or perhaps just grow to become comfortable with who he already is. Maybe he wants to become accepted. Whatever you choose, forward momentum is good.
For powers, you might choose:
Supernatural Strength [-4]
Supernatural Toughness [-4]
Inhuman Recover [-2]
The Catch (Fire: common +2, anyone can research it +2) [+4]
Total Refresh cost: -6
Such a character isn't fast, but he hits like a truck and can take a lot of abuse.
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That is exactly the sort of character I'm looking for physically, TheMouse, thank you! As far as goals, I think he's probably too scared to hope for the Pinocchio endgame, though it might be a secret dream of his. I think if someone were to ask him what his goals were, he'd probably tell them that he just wants acceptance, both from the outside world and from himself.
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It depends on the kind of Frankenstein you want to make. I would definitely give him strength/toughness and maybe recovery too. Perhaps Hulking Size would be appropriate too as it fits perfectly with the concept and perhaps add Living Dead to that too.
So:
[-4]Supernatural Strength
[-4]Supernatural Toughness
[-4]Supernatural Recovery
[+6]The Catch - Fire.*
[-2]Hulking Size
[-1]Living Dead
*Fire is specific +2, Reasonable to access +2, Fire is a well known catch +2.
For a total of -9 refresh, however you could easily reduce strength or a toughness power to lower the cost. (inhuman strength and toughness, plus the rest, would be only -5 refresh and you'd still be rock hard. Combine that with high endurance, high might and high fists/weapons and he'll be pretty scary in combat. With his bonuses to intimidate, plus a high skill in intimidate and a good empathy level for his heart of gold and he'll be literally scary in social situations too :)
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*Fire is specific +2, Reasonable to access +2, Fire is a well known catch +2.
so, thats not calculated correctly. The catch only gets +2 for something specific if is satisfied by everything except for that something specific. Your total reflects a character that is especially hard to hurt with fire, rather than just normally tough. To say that he is tough, but vulnerable to fire, the catch would be a total of +4
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Yeah, Fire's actually only a +3 Catch (Anyone can get it +2, Can be researched +1). It'd go to +4 if people could tell it just by looking at him that that was his vulnerability, and (as luminos indicates) +6 if his powers applied only to Fire.
Other than that, TheMouse's power listing looks good to me.
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Aha, I had wondered why it was so high :) However I would definitely say it's +4 and not +3 DMW, at least for my variant. 1) He is undead and eeeveryone knows to kill the undead with fire, 2) Frankenstein dies or, at least, is affected by fire, in most versions of the tale. In the original one he floats off in to the night, but he was going to build a funeral pyre for himself to die. So:
[-2]Inhuman Strength
[-2]Inhuman Toughness
[-4]Supernatural Recovery
[+4]The Catch - Fire.*
[-2]Hulking Size
[-1]Living Dead
*Reasonable to access +2, Fire is a well known catch, especially for undead +2.
This is still a submerged level and is still tough, I just like the hulking size/living dead because it fits so well to what frankenstein is.
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Frankenstein's creature is capable of Stealth, and thus not a candidate for Hulking Size.
And not everyone knows to kill undead with fire, or that what they're facing is either undead or Frankenstein's creature (those are what you need to research, hence the +1).
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He hid in the dark sometimes and watched through windows, I'd give him a stunt for that if it was deemed necessary. However Frankenstein's monster was traditionally 8 feet tall and is frequently portrayed as "a towering, gruesome figure".
Plus, in almost every 'undead' story ever, they are weak to fire. Both The Mouse and I automatically made fire his catch and I'm sure it's the first thing most other people would think of. If for some reason they don't look undead then fine, fire may not be thought of automatically.
I really think it depends on the sort of Frankenstein's monster that you're trying to create. If you're going for the movie variant then he is hulking and he's made out of bits of dead bodies before being brought to life unnaturally. It's not my character though so I'm not that fussed, he can have fairy wings if that's how you envisage him.
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I appreciate all the advice, guys. I definitely like TheMouse's powerlist, though I'm still up in the air about recovery powers.
As far as the hulking size goes, I'm up in the air on that. Traditionally, yeah, he'd qualify, but I'm looking for a guy who could feasibly operate in modern society, so I would probably drop it and just describe him as really tall but within human norms.
The Catch is tricky. I can see the argument that not everyone knows to kill the undead with fire, but at the same time, this guy is going to be very obvious. He'll be a mass of stitches and slightly askew proportions, and while people not in the know would likely rationalize it as, "Geez, that dude must have been in some horrible accident!" anyone even a little in the know would look at him and think, "That dude is stitched together from bits of other people. What's that phrase? Kill it with what? Something with an F...OH YEAH." Plus, it is very easily researched even for people not in the know, considering Frankenstein is a bit of a pop culture icon. So I do lean more toward having his Catch being a +4. I don't see it going farther than that, though.
ETA: I'm going to try to put something together in a more formalized block of stuff when I get home. Until then, what are your thoughts on Helps the Hopeless being a separate aspect? Should that be covered more by the Heart of Gold part of his High Concept, or do you think there's enough difference there to justify it's own aspect? Admittedly, it's something I'm thinking of as more of a story hook aspect, and if not for that would likely be content to have it be lumped with the High Concept.
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Oh, if he's abundantly clearly Frankenstein's monster, not just dead, then yeah, it might be +4.
And whether the original counts for Hulking Size depends on where you put the cutoff. I personally put it at 1,000 lbs. Anything smaller than that can still be really sneaky (look at a 500 lb, 10 foot long Tiger), and thus doesn't qualify, IMO. I give it to Kodiacs, but not normal Grizzly Bears for example.
ETA: I'm going to try to put something together in a more formalized block of stuff when I get home. Until then, what are your thoughts on Helps the Hopeless being a separate aspect? Should that be covered more by the Heart of Gold part of his High Concept, or do you think there's enough difference there to justify it's own aspect? Admittedly, it's something I'm thinking of as more of a story hook aspect, and if not for that would likely be content to have it be lumped with the High Concept.
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I would still argue that the Catch of fire is +4.
Anyone can reasonably get it. I don't think anyone's going to argue this, so I'll leave it at that. [+2]
Research, that we've had a disagreement on. One specific example in the text is the book Dracula for Black Court vampires. I would argue that if this creature closely resembles the creature from the Frankenstein novel -- and I would say it does -- that this is on the same level as the Black Court weakness.
I mean, everyone knows that the monster from the story is afraid of fire. Anyone who's read the novel knows. Every variant of the monster I can think of -- even those that call it "Frankenstein" -- makes it a point to showcase his fear of fire. (Okay, after I typed that, I thought of Adam, the series 4 boss on Buffy. He's the only one I can think of.)
If it's that ingrained in the consciousness of the public, if it's showcased in several books and movies, I think it's worth the +2. Frankenstein's monster is one of the great monsters of fiction. If a beasty resembles him, people are going to think to try fire.
The +1 for research means that you need specific materials. The one sited in the book is a wizard's library.
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So here's what I've got so far. I haven't done his First Story or Guest Starring stuff yet, largely because I'd actually like to play this guy somewhere so I'm hesitant to work that out until I find a game for him. Assuming Helps the Hopeless is different enough to merit it's own aspect, I imagine that will be the one he gets from his First Story. Also, I decided to go ahead and take the Inhuman Recovery and I've left The Catch at +4, because anyone who looks close is going to clearly see that he's very Frankenstein. I mean, dude's got stitches right there on his face, and all over his body. It wouldn't take a rocket scientist or a skilled occultist to figure it out. Any further advice would be great!
Hannibal Knight
High Concept: Monster With A Heart of Gold
Trouble: The Monster in the Mirror
Other: One of a Kind, Nightmare Fuel on Legs
Supernatural Strength [-4]
Supernatural Toughness [-4]
Inhuman Recovery [-2]
The Catch: Fire (Common +2, anyone can research it +2) [+4]
Living Dead [-1]
Where did you come from?
The first thing he saw when he awoke was a grimy brick ceiling. For the longest time, he thought that was all there was. For months, his only companions were basic school textbooks, videos of real humans interacting taken by a voyeur, and a myriad of movies of multiple genres, usually of the action, horror, or TV show variety. He was a quick study, but only having facsimiles of people for company can do strange things to a mind. It was also at this time that he learned of the fate of his creator: A scientist and minor magical talent, he tried to combine the two to create life from nothing. In a way, Hannibal’s life means that he was successful, but the cost was far more severe than his creator expected. The occult machines used in his creation overloaded and exploded, sending shrapnel into his creator’s body like a flurry of sharp bullets. With him went the secret of Hannibal’s creation. All Hannibal had left were journals, revealing that he was the only one of his kind that his creator knew of, and that he hadn’t been created to be a child…rather he was created to be an engine of destruction at his master’s beck and call. Horrified by this discovery, Hannibal fled to the surface, more alone than ever before. Aspect: One of a Kind
What shaped you?
Hannibal thought he would find succor on the surface. He didn’t have mirrors in the sewers, you understand. He sought the comfort of other living beings, people he hoped would understand him and befriend him, but instead all he received was horror and revulsion. Spurned no matter where he turned, often hunted thanks to panicked, reactionary mortals, Hannibal eventually grew angry. Like a horrible storm breaking, his wrath fell upon those that spurned him. He killed six people in his rage, always managing to escape through the sewers after his crimes. Finally stumbling into the red light district, he found people who could tolerate his ugliness and his rage cooled. Taking up residence in the red light district, Hannibal became its protector both to atone for his sins and because deep down, under all the rage and hurt, he really is a good man. Aspect: Nightmare Fuel on Legs
Skills
Superb: Endurance
Great: Might, Fists
Good: Intimidation, Stealth, Athletics
Fair: Alertness, Empathy, Presence, Investigation
Average: Scholarship, Craftmanship, Lore, Conviction, Deceit
Stunts
Endurance: No Pain, No Gain
Fists: Armed Arts (Improvised weapons, knives)
Stress
Mental: OOO
Social: OOO
Physical: OOOO(OOOO)
Armor: 2 against all physical stress
Consequences
Mild: O
Moderate: O
Severe: O
+1 Physical: O (Superb Endurance)
+1 Physical: O (Endurance Stunt)
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Killer Blow really isn't worth it, mechanically. If I were you I might take Armed Arts (Club, Something Else) instead, skip Weapons, and get something like Discipline, Lore, or Scholarship.
And Helps The Hopeless is worth being an Aspect if you see it as a major motivating force for the character. By default, wirth Monster With A Heart Of Gold, he's just generally nice to everyone and would help somebody he saw in trouble, but with Helps The Hopeless the down and out are his particular charge and he likely patrols the bad part of town looking for ways to be helpful.
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Or you could take Giant Meat Paws (or Fist Like A Canned Ham, etc.) as a derivation of the Claws power. It's damaging natural weapons, they don't have to be sharp.
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I totally missed Armed Arts while I was reading stunts. Simple, often improvised weapons is why I gave him the Weapons skill, but this works so much better, since I don't see him using them all that often unless he is really pressed for a little extra oomph. So I'm switching Killer Blow for Armed Arts, and I subbed in Scholarship for Weapons. I considered Discipline, but I don't picture him being disciplined enough to actually have the skill at anything beyond the baseline Mediocre level. I picture this guy as only being around for about a year, so he's still working on that whole "emotional restraint" thing. You could also make the same argument for Scholarship, considering he hasn't exactly had a teacher, but he did have all that time with the textbooks, and as I've bumped Alertness up to Fair and lowered Scholarship to Average, I think it's a good representation of his roughly high school level booksmarts. Whereas he hasn't had a huge amount of exposure to overtly disciplined people. He lives in the red light district, which exists mostly because people can't be disciplined enough to resist the temptations it offers. If he develops along a certain path, I could absolutely see him getting Discipline as the result of a massive story and a Significant or greater milestone, but I don't see him starting with it. Also, he does have Lore at Average, which I think fits his one year of fighting supernatural things that prey on his charges.
I also see what you mean about Helps the Hopeless, DMW, and that's what I was imagining for him, so I think that's going to be the Aspect he gets for his First Story. And I've now edited those changes into the quote block on the previous page.
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Cool. Glad I could help. :)
Though do bear in mind that you need to pick two weapons for Armed Arts. Some GMs might allow "Improvised Weapons" as one of them, and I'm sure most would agree that "Bludgeons" or "Clubs" covers most of those he's likely to use, but you still do need to specfy them.
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No pain, No gain works well with Recovery and Toughness (though I'd be tempted to increase recovery to supernatural), but I'd probably take DFJunkies advice and get a Claws variant rather than Killer Blow. Armed arts is good too though it doesn't include improvised weapons afaik.
On skills, I think DMW is right about dropping weapons, you'll find Fists more effect (you can always buy knuckle dusters of some kind). I'd probably increase alertness up a level as that's a useful skill, and then take Deceit for it's 'Disguise' trapping which might help you look normal and avoid unwanted attention. Scholarship works too (dating online might be his only chance at happiness).
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Armed arts is good too though it doesn't include improvised weapons afaik.
Well, I don't see why it wouldn't if you pick appropriate weapons. I mean, just for example, a chair leg surely fally under "Clubs" doesn't it?
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Okay, I did a little more tweaking after reading the advice you guys gave. I selected improvised weapons and knives as his Armed Arts weapons. I also chose to drop Contacts and replace it with Deceit, for the Disguise trapping. I figure that he's been doing his thing for a year-ish, and he's got Presence at Fair largely for the Reputation trapping, so it's feasible, I think, that people in need of help would seek out "the big brute that helps people" rather than him needing Contacts. Especially in that sort of neighborhood, where not everyone can go to the cops when they need help. Thanks again, everyone! I think we're nearing the final product, with the exception of the stuff I want to save for when I actually find a game for him.
ETA: I added in the Stress tracks and consequences. Somehow I get the feeling I calculated something wrong there, even though it seems like I followed the instructions in the book. Should he be that physically durable?
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ETA: I added in the Stress tracks and consequences. Somehow I get the feeling I calculated something wrong there, even though it seems like I followed the instructions in the book. Should he be that physically durable?
No, that's right. Though bear in mind that none of Supernatural Toughness applies to fire, which makes noting the difference worthwhile. That's usually done this way:
Physical: OOOO(OOOO)
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Aha, knew I forgot something! Thank you. I'll edit that in now.
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The Catch is tricky. I can see the argument that not everyone knows to kill the undead with fire, but at the same time, this guy is going to be very obvious. He'll be a mass of stitches and slightly askew proportions, and while people not in the know would likely rationalize it as, "Geez, that dude must have been in some horrible accident!" anyone even a little in the know would look at him and think, "That dude is stitched together from bits of other people. What's that phrase? Kill it with what? Something with an F...OH YEAH." Plus, it is very easily researched even for people not in the know, considering Frankenstein is a bit of a pop culture icon. So I do lean more toward having his Catch being a +4. I don't see it going farther than that, though.
How hard it is to realize the catch is honestly a decision the group has to reach within some reasonable limits (obviously access is +2). That's because you are DEFINING how hard it is to research the fact in the campaign. If it is easy to research your catch, then that's a +2. If it is hard (requires books that are not easy to obtain), then it is +1. I suppose one could even say for a unique monster that it could be +0, since research won't help. So really with Frankenstein it could be any level, you just have to decide what level it is and play consistently at that level.