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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Belial666 on June 25, 2010, 12:10:36 AM

Title: Other wizards in the DFRPG system?
Post by: Belial666 on June 25, 2010, 12:10:36 AM
OK, here is how I'd deal with other types of magic if I had to use the DFRPG for them;


Channeling of the True Source [-5]

A channeler of the Wheel of Time series has access to what is effectively Sponsored Magic equivalent to Soulfire. Channeling the True Source enables all Thaumaturgy effects as Evocation, but the channeler must be taught the general effect (i.e. creating fire, controlling wind, physical blocks, healing and opening gateways are basic effects) or discover it through experimentation. Via experimentation, a channeler can discover new effects on his own-roll discipline vs conviction per attempt; a failed roll means he draws as much power as he can and not a small, controlled amount. Then roll again to control the power. If the control roll fails, all of the power goes to backlash. Typically untaught channelers have 75% chance to kill themselves before they learn enough. Experimenting with individual weaves (spells) causes fallout instead and on a failed control roll, only the excessive power becomes fallout.
Male Channelers get +1 to Power for all types of magic. Female Channelers get +1 Control to all types of magic.
A Channeler can use "sponsor debt" to overchannel, casting small spells for free or bigger spells than he normally can. Those future unavoidable compels can be used in subsequent encounters to reduce either Power or Control for spellcasting (spread evenly). They are persistent; unless paid off by a Fate Point when the channeler is not actively using magic, they can be compelled repeatedly. A channeler can typically accumulate up to the average of his power and control in Debt before being cut off from the source. If the channeler is willing to sacrifice his ability, he can accumulate up to twice that in one encounter but then takes the "Severed from the Source" extreme consequence.
Channeling the True Source uses Refinements normally for the standard elements of Fire, Air, Water, Earth and Spirit.
Channeling does use focus items and enchanted items. However, an Angreal costs 4 focus item slots per +1 bonus but its bonus applies to all spellcasting rolls. Sa'angreal offer a bonus of +4 or higher but require "Item of Power". For example, Callandor offers a +10 bonus for -18 refresh as an Item of Power.
An average channeler is submerged, typically leaving 5 refresh open to pay off overchanneling Debt when he or she rests. They have Wizard's Constitution and live a bit longer than DF wizards (600+ years)

DnD Wizardry [-5 to -17]

A DnD wizard gets a lot of power but far less flexibility than a DF wizard. At its most base, the DnD wizard gets to cast both evocation and thaumaturgy spells at the speed of evocation. He casts spells with a Power equal or less to his Lore -2 but he must memorize those spells in advance; he gets 5 slots per session to fill with spells. He makes the control roll (using discipline) to store the energy in his mind and, as if doing a ritual, he can memorise more slowly, spreading the energy so there is no chance of backlash or fallout. When releasing the spell, he only needs to make a discipline roll to target it. He gets specialisation and item slots as if he had evocation and thaumaturgy, boosting Power or Control on the following types of magic; Evocation, Enchantment, Illusion, Transmutation, Divination, Abjuration, Necromancy and Conjuration.
The base ability costs [-5] refresh. For an additional -1 refresh the wizard puts into DnD wizardry, he gets 5 more slots, memorizing spells of Power equal to his Lore -1. For the next point of refresh he gets 5 more slots equal to his Lore. And so on until he takes the full -17 refresh, memorizing spells up to Lore +10.
A DnD Wizard will also take Refinements for foci and enchanted items (representing DnD magic items) and Specialisations (representing metamagic and other magic-boosting feats). An average lvl 10 wizard is refresh 9 for his magic only, another 9 or more for refinements. An epic wizard could easily be -40 refresh; -17 for his spells, -17 for refinements, -3 for stunts and another -3 to take true Thaumaturgy to represent Epic Magic.

Wand Magic [-2 to -5]

A wizard of the HP universe -or other similar wand based caster- replaces Evocation with Wand Magic. They still get Thaumaturgy but not The Sight, Soulgaze or Wizard's Constitution. At its most basic, this form of magic requires a Wand [+2] and is treated as ranged mental maneuer or block at Conviction +2 to hit [-2]. They don't need to make a control roll. A budding caster usually has only a couple effects he can do [-1]. For someone studying magic enough to learn multiple spells the ability is treated as modular instead as they can spend a few moments (an exchange) to remember a new spell [another -1]. Once a wizard has grown strong enough to cause harm with his magic, it can also be used as Weapon 2 [-1]. An average wizard would use it as weapon 4 [-1] and would only need a supplemental action to use a new spell [-1].
Master Wizards can take Refinements for Wand Magic, upping their skill with one of the following spell types; elemental, enchantment, illusion, transfiguration, transportation, protection, curses, healing, divination, dark magic. Rules for bonus pyramid still apply. The bonus can be added effect's power, the wizard's attack roll, or split between the two. Thaumaturgy bonuses are as per normal. Wand Magic does not use or benefit from Foci.
(Wand Magic is based on Modular Abilities used for a broader version of Incite Emotion. About half as powerful as DF spellcasting but they can use it all day long.)
Title: Re: Other wizards in the DFRPG system?
Post by: Archmage_Cowl on June 25, 2010, 12:58:07 AM
those are cool. Especially the dnd one :)
Title: Re: Other wizards in the DFRPG system?
Post by: Slife on June 25, 2010, 06:18:08 AM
I think you have DnD wizards pegged a little low in refresh cost, to be honest. 

Fifth level spells are way beyond typical dresdenverse effects (teleport and rope trick alone completely outclass anything we've seen in the books, magic jar makes you better than Corpsetaker at it's own schtick, et cetera).
Title: Re: Other wizards in the DFRPG system?
Post by: Belial666 on June 25, 2010, 07:19:10 AM
Assuming a level 10 wizard has a Lore of Fantastic (he's a Refresh 18 character after all), his level 5 spells would be at least Lore + 3 + 3 focus + 2 specialization for a total of 14 shifts of Power, attacking at +8 or so. A very specialized (as in metamagic and CL boosts abusing) wizard could do Lore +3 +6 focus +4 specialization for 19 shifts of power for his chosen school at 5th level spells (though he'd be half as strong in most anything else).

@teleportation/Rope Trick
A considering that half an hour of walking through the Ways is 10.000 miles in the real world, the 1000 miles of teleport of a 10th level wizard is equivalent to 3 minutes of walking. At 4 mph fast walk, that's 400 yards. So a Teleport would be one 5th level slot for 14 shifts of power to open a Gateway twice and another 5th level slot of 14 shifts to get an "escape potion" effect strength 10 on an entire zone (2), for three exchanges (2), moving the wizard and his entire group 30 zones through the ways. That's teleportation of an entire group right there.
It takes 2 slots but this system gives the wizard 5 slots at that level while at normal DnD he'd have 2-3. And it takes 4 exchanges instead of 1 but considering that DnD allows swift teleportation as a world rule, I'd definitely allow a "Swift Teleporter" stunt for a DnD wizard.
Rope Trick would be a Gateway to the Nevernever (the Astral would be part of the Nevernever) that also puts a 8-shift Veil or Ward around the part of the Astral you want as a hidey-hole; 12 shifts and you also tag an aspect for material component/item focus for a total of 14 shifts of effect for a 2nd level spell.

@Transformation/Enchantment
Keep in mind that 14 shifts of Transformation or Mind Magic automatically take out any mook or supporting NPC or PC that can give only up to moderate consequence. And since you take them out, you are free to transform or mentally rewrite them however you want. Extra shifts go to effect duration. And vs a PC that isn't protected, the first spell goes to stress/consequences (representing successful saving throw), the second would probably give a severe or even extreme consequence and the third would take them out too. It's about as effective as DnD magic usually is, if not more.




@Specific Wizards;

I am planning to stat a few well-known wizards. Do you guys want Elminster, Dumbledore or Rand Al'Thor first? Elminster is 36 or so. Dumbledore is 31. Rand Al'Thor is 39 without Callandor, 57 with it. Then again, he can level (medieval) cities with one blow.
Title: Re: Other wizards in the DFRPG system?
Post by: Archmage_Cowl on June 25, 2010, 08:36:39 AM
totally elminster first please (one of my fav characters ever) ;D
Title: Re: Other wizards in the DFRPG system?
Post by: Belial666 on June 25, 2010, 09:53:06 AM
Elminster of Shadowdale
High Concept: Chosen of Mystra
Trouble: Living Legend
Other Aspects: Practicing Wizard when the Hills were Young, Legendary Meddler, Warmer of Many Beds, Too Many Antagonists to Count, My Girlfriend is the Strongest Living Spellcaster

SKILLS
Epic: Lore
Fantastic: Discipline, Contacts
Superb: Conviction, Deceit, Presence
Great: Athletics, Endurance, Alertness
Good: Steath, Weapons, Survival
Fair: Might, Fists, Resources
All others default at average

POWERS
Wizardy [-14] (up to 10th level spells, minimum power 5, maximum power 15 without any bonuses)
Epic Spellcasting [-3]  (full thaumaturgy, bonus specialization and items added to the refinements below)
Refinement [-14]  (Evocation Power +5, Abjuration Power +4, Transmutation Power +3, Conjuration Power +2, Divination Power +1, Enchantment Power +1. Evocation/Abjuration power Focus +2, Evocation/Abjuration control Focus +3, 12 magic item slots (base power 7, further bonus according to item school)
Loremaster [-3]  (+3 to Lore for research purposes for all subjects dealing with either magic or history)
Silver Fire [-3] (sponsored magic equivalent. As fire or spirit for evocation, ignores antimagic. This works as DF evocation with stress, it doesn't use spell slots)
Swift Teleporter [-1]


38 refresh total, serious badass. He could throw 22-shift offense with Evocation, 21-shift defense with Abjuration and attacks at +9. His spell slots could run out but he still has full Thaumaturgy for any Epic Rituals-his Complexity may be only 8 but that doesn't mean much for slow ritual magic. And he has Power 8 Control 7 standard DF magic as a fallback for "minor" effects.
Title: Re: Other wizards in the DFRPG system?
Post by: Tbora on June 25, 2010, 05:10:05 PM
Show Rand al Thor next please
Title: Re: Other wizards in the DFRPG system?
Post by: JosephKell on June 25, 2010, 08:11:04 PM
Quote from: Tbora on June 25, 2010, 05:10:05 PM
Show Rand al Thor next please
Rand must have like a hundred fate points (he is making declarations all the time).

(click to show/hide)

Heck, one time he made a declaration of "You aren't dead yet Mat!"  (Or did Mat spend the fate point?)

The only character with more fate points from the Wheel of Time is Mat Cauthon (those dice he always hear is really fate points being spent to re-roll).

The only problem I see for Wheel of Time is Foci = Angreal/Sa'Angreal.  I would probably not give free foci slots (even if this reduces the refresh cost of the power to -4 or -3), then just make all Angreal/Sa'Angreal items of power subject to GM ruling on availability.  Additionally, Item of Power would have no refresh discount (in this way it would become a new entry in the Items of Power group).

Angreal/Sa'Angreal [-0]
Description: You have an artifact from a previous age that helps channel more of the One Power.
Musts: Channel the True Source power.
Options: The shape of the artifact can vary.  Many take the form of... blah blah blah.
Skills: ...
Effects:
-- Unbreakable.  Angreal and sa'angreal are made of cuellandor, and are unbreakable.  Even balefire splashes off of it.
-- Power Bonus [-1].  While channeling through the angreal or sa'angreal, you gain an additional +1 to your effective power.  When channeling, reduce the difficulty for your Discipline check by the power bonus of the angreal or sa'angreal when determining backlash/fallout.  This can be taken multiple times and as a total refresh cost equal to the total power bonus.
    For example, a -2 cost angreal gives a +2 power bonus, so if a channeler used it to do a 7 shift weave, the control difficulty is only 5.  In this way, using an angreal or sa'angreal makes it easier to channel a weave, but not more accurate.

Instead, Refinements would be for specializations and extra elements.

This is where things get kind of crazy.  I would probably try to utilize portions of The Wheel of Time d20.  Specifically weaves using multiple elements.  Maybe a channeler has to use the lowest power/control bonuses for the element choices.  Like Fireball uses Air and Fire, so a character with Control (Fire +1), and Power (Air +1, Fire +1) treats it as Control +0, and Power +1.

I think you could also expand the rules for zone expansions.  Maybe 2 shifts for the first full zone, then increase the cost for extra zones by 1 (3 shifts for the 2nd zone, 4 for the 3rd, 5 for the 4th, so hitting 4 zones with an riven earth--causing the ground to explode--would require 14 shifts just for the zones).

What about removing the thing about overchanneling and just removing the option for fallout on channeling?  If all failures are backlash, then consequences become the penalty for messing up.  Then recovery could be going the period without channeling (maybe a once a scene compel to not channel, but doing so resets the recovery time).  Stress already works for overchanneling.  If you use more shifts than your effective conviction, you take more stress (or consequences).  If you fail to control it, you take backlash (stress/consequences).
Title: Re: Other wizards in the DFRPG system?
Post by: Belial666 on June 25, 2010, 09:07:12 PM
High Concept: The Dragon Reborn
Trouble: Bound by Prophesy
Other: Chivalry is not Dead Damnit, Bound to Ishamael, One-Handed, I Must Do This Alone

Skills:

Legendary Conviction
Epic Endurance, Resources
Fantastic Discipline, Weapons, Intimidate
Superb Athletics, Presence, Alertness
Great Contacts, Deceit, Survival
Good Stealth, Fists, Might
Average Scholarship, Craftsmanship, Lore


Powers:

 [-5] Channeling the One Power (Power +1)
 [-2] Ritual
 [-18] Refinement (fire power +8, fire control +7, earth power +6, earth control +5, spirit power +4, spirit control +3, air power +2, air control +1)
 [-2] Master Channeler (armor 2 vs backlash)
 [-1] Weavesight
 [-2] Multiweave (multiple targets divide weapon rating only and can apply different effects per target)
 [-0] Wizards Constitution
 [-2] Warweaver (every zone increase after the first five adds +1 zone radius, not +1 zone)
 [-2] Echoes of the Past (+1 rolls to rare or lost weaves, use conviction instead of Lore for refinement and knowing events of the War of Power)
 [-2] Law Breaker (First Law)
 [-2] Law Breaker (Sixth Law)
 [-1] Law Breaker (Seventh Law)
 [-1] Blademaster (+2 weapons skill when using a single-handed sword)
 [-1] The Oneness (+1 combat rolls except weave power, -2 social interaction except intimidate)

Total Refresh: -41, 57 with Callandor

Callandor
Item of Power bound to "Dragon Reborn" High Concept
One-time Discount [+2]
Is a weapons 3 single-handed sword
Unbreakable
Major Sa'angreal; +10 to Power and Control [-20]
Unless used in a circle of three with a woman commanding, any bonus used beyond +5 causes an equivalent Fallout in addition to the spell's effects. [+2]


Stresses:

Mental: OOOO +2 mild consequences
Physical: OOOO +2 physical consequences
Social: OOOO +1 social consequence
Extreme Consequence: Cursed Wound

Rotes:

Blossoms of Fire
Five whining columns of fire appear in the midst of your enemies then immediately burst into discs, blasting everything within fifty yards
Effect: Weapons 5, 5 different zones, +3 zones radius. (21 shifts)
Note: Requires Warweaver, Violates 1st Law. Not that most Ashaman would care but Aes Sedai might want to have words with you.

Arrows of Fire
A arrows of flame flash from each finger, hitting a dozen different targets with deadly accuracy
Effect: Weapons 1, up to 17 targets at once, to hit roll is not divided (18 shifts)
Note: Requires Multiweave. Weapons rating might be low but a typical roll from Rand Al'Thor is still about 18 for lethal weaves so enemy mooks are still dead.

Balefire
A foot-thick bolt of blindingly bright radiance burns the target from time and space, even erasing past actions of the target.
Effect: Weapons 23 mental disruption opposed by discipline. Take-out erases the target from the continuum of time.
Note: Violates 1st and 6th laws. A target will almost always get hit since RAT has a control of 18+ for it and is taken out pretty much automatically. Oh, and expect Paradox-eggeddon if you use it too much.

Deathgate
A silvery slash in the fabric of the world quickly opens into a revolving one-sided gateway that moves, carving a path through everything unlucky enough to be before it
Effect: Weapons 12 transportation in a zone-wide, 5 zones long line, opposed by athletics (22 shifts). Ignores armor. Take-out moves the target in a random part of an empty dimension in which he can't survive. Lesser results cause physical damage as the razor-sharp edge of the revolving gateway slashes away limbs or even bigger pieces.
Note: Violates 1st and 7th laws. Otherwise, have fun gating-out the opposition. Just remember that some creatures might actually survive being sent into an empty dimension and might even eventually return.





Yeah, Rand Al'Thor is terrifying. Even without Callandor, he can Balefire your ass without breaking a sweat. He can overchannel (incurring Debt) for up to 16 fate points without burning out, twice as much if he doesn't care about burning out. His "death curse" (basically calling so much power in one weave that he bursts apart) is Power 120, Control 22 if he overchannels everything, uses Balefire and takes the difference in backlash (which doesn't matter cause he dies anyway). That's more than enough to create a new volcano IMHO.
With Callandor, you're dead. He can open a gateway to your location and Balefire the city you're in. All of the city. In one blow.
Title: Re: Other wizards in the DFRPG system?
Post by: Tbora on June 25, 2010, 09:10:37 PM
Rand al Thor is a badass, and thats why we all love him :)
Title: Re: Other wizards in the DFRPG system?
Post by: Belial666 on June 25, 2010, 09:52:46 PM
Maybe. But Egwene has my respect. She may only pull off 13 shifts of power for blasting instead of 21 but she had the Discipline, Deceit and Presence to become a real Amyrlin before her 20th winter. And given what she did so far, I think she qualifies for Legendary Discipline like RAT qualifies for Legendary Conviction.

Title: Re: Other wizards in the DFRPG system?
Post by: Tbora on June 27, 2010, 06:07:45 PM
Can you stat the Choden Kai, I am interested in how powerful he would be with the single most power Sa'Angreal in existence.
Title: Re: Other wizards in the DFRPG system?
Post by: Deadmanwalking on June 27, 2010, 06:15:16 PM
Looks cool, though the Wheel of Time stuff is lost on me, since I haven't read it.

In a similar vein, I made the following in a different thread, but it seems On Topic:

Quote from: Deadmanwalking on June 26, 2010, 08:39:03 AM
Mage: The Ascension

Basic Template:

Awakened Magic [-6]

Spheres:

Basically, Awakened Magic works as Evocation and Thaumaturgy with the following differences:

Instead of the five Elements of standard Dresden Files Evocation, Mages have the Nine Spheres and get Power and Control Specializations to them as normal as if they were Elements. They recieve access to five Spheres with purchase of Awakened Magic, but still only one free Specialty

Thaumaturgy is re-divided into the same nine Sphere categories, and the character likewise recieves access to only five of them...the same five as they have access to with Evocation. They also recieve one Thaumaturgy Specialty as normal.

Item Slots are gained as normal (meaning Awakened Mages start with 4), and may be used likewise, but Foci must be specified as either Thaumaturgy or Evocation (sibnce the Category names are now the same).

Specialties are still entirely separate between the two categories (a +1 Evocation Forces Control will not apply to Forces Thaumaturgy).


Awakened Refinements:

Refinement is purchased differently for Awakened Magic. One level of Refinement will grant any of the following:

Access to one additional Sphere for both Evocation and Thaumaturgy.

Two Specialties to divide amongst Evocation and Thaumaturgy.

Two Additional Item Slots for whatever use you like.

One each Specialty and Item Slot.


Awakened Paradox:

Instead of Backlash or Fallout, Awakened casters take Paradox when they fail Control rolls. This can take the form of either Backlash or Fallout (or something else entirely), but is treated like Backlash for purposes of whether the spell works. The bad side is that the player in no way controls what the Paradox does, that's entirely up to the GM.

The GM has three options of how to use Paradox:

1. As Backlash.

2. As Fallout.

3. As a magical effect of his choice with a shift value equal to what the Control roll was failed by. This should be appropriate for the spell in question, but may always include Summoning (and not Binding) inimical "Paradox" spirits.


Incidental Differences:

The Laws of Magic do not apply to Awakened Magic, but neither do awakened Mages recieve the ability to bestow a Death Curse or ever gain Lawbreaker (even if they wanted to). They do not Hex technology by default, and must use an appropriate Sphere effect to do so on purpose, and suffer an appropriate Paradox effect to do so accidentally.


Other Powers:

Aside from Refinement Awakened Mages may purchase any Powers they desire that their Spheres can justify. Most will have Feeding Dependency (Magical Energy) and some may have Human Form. Life  Mages often gain physical enhancements, Mind or Spirit Mages often gain the Sight, etc.


Notes:

Probably the hardest to shoehorn into existing Dresden cosmology, if you do so, I reccomend making Lawbreaker apply to them.