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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: jbigelow22 on June 22, 2010, 11:18:14 PM
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I think I have an explaination on why technology doesn't well with Wizards. As we know technology needs constant and specific energy in order to operate. Wizards emotions cause energy to shift and change. So when an wizard goes through life he or she continually shift thoughts and emotions causing tech failure. Presumably a magical surge protector stabilizing the energies in the area (specific to electricity) would address the issue but impeding any electrical spells. Just a thought.
Let me know if you think that makes sense.
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There's as pretty extensive discussion of this on p. 228 of Your Story, and in Grave Peril if I recall correctly Harry has Butters create a magic circle when he uses the GPS system to cut down on the likelihood of random hexing shorting it out. (I think--or did he just have Butters step well away before turning it on?)
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There's as pretty extensive discussion of this on p. 228 of Your Story, and in Grave Peril if I recall correctly Harry has Butters create a magic circle when he uses the GPS system to cut down on the likelihood of random hexing shorting it out. (I think--or did he just have Butters step well away before turning it on?)
Dead Beat :P
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Dead Beat :P
Yeah, I always get the two death-pun-titled books mixed up.
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Yeah, I always get the two death-pun-titled books mixed up.
What about Death Masks? :P
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What about Death Masks? :P
That one's less punny, so doesn't get lumped in. ;) I do occasionally mix up Summer Knight and White Night for the same reason, though. :)
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Must have missed it. So then, could Harry put a stereo on a timer 5 minutes out (simple device) - wrap a circle (close it) around the stereo and get mood music or do something similar with a water heater? If that's the case, why not since a circle is supposed to take a little energy?
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I think the connections of the pipe to the shower would ruin the circle, same with the cord to the outlet for the stereo. Now the stereo might work if it would battery powered.
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Must have missed it. So then, could Harry put a stereo on a timer 5 minutes out (simple device) - wrap a circle (close it) around the stereo and get mood music or do something similar with a water heater? If that's the case, why not since a circle is supposed to take a little energy?
Do you want to be around when a cockroach scuttles across that circle and suddenly days or weeks worth of pent-up wizard energy suddenly crash down on your hot water heater all at once? :) Circles are too fragile for that kind of thing.
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I think the stereo trick should work. Similarly, I imagine he could use a (battery-powered) computer inside a circle with one of those laser virtual keyboard things (http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/keyboards-mice/8193/) projecting out of it. Or he could set up a projector/camera thingie inside a circle, and use a system similar to SixthSense (http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/pranav_mistry_the_thrilling_potential_of_sixthsense_technology.html), only bigger. For internet, I'm thinking 4G wireless would be the best bet...
I've spent way too much time thinking about this.
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That's mostly right. It's not so much that technology requires consistent rules but that it requires CERTAIN rules. Magic is the same way, but the rules of technology generally keep its effects confined...otherwise it might interfere with magic as much as magic interferes with it. Technology has less bleed-out. Probably the same principle as with supernatural creatures. They're each of a singular purpose and therefore don't suffer from the seepage that follows even the best wizards.
It seems that whatever effects are leftover from spells or seep from the wizard personally tend to be assimilated by whatever other forces they interact with. Which is why even strictly mechanical devices, even simpler ones can still be hexed. Electronics get surged, mechanics have their momentum unbalanced, etc. It's not so much that magic's power is incompatible but rather that if a device is already doing its job, the extra "oomph" from the adaptive power of magic overloads everything, even simple machines. Humans aren't affected because we operate under variable and dynamic circumstances already. Probably why wizards have so much more range than other supernaturals...humans have built-in buffers and shunts.
I'd be willing to bet that with the proper control, a wizard could power an electronic device on his own, without any outside current. He could probably do the same with other devices, but there wouldn't be much point in that. Usually their magic can do more than most machines. However, there's very little in a wizard's repertoire that can compare to things like the internet. A wizard with at least semi-reliable and unhindered access to the information superhighway would have a vast advantage.
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Assuming a wizard has some mundane (or at least low-level practitioner) friends, the easiest way to share in listening to music or watching TV is for the wizard to have his own chair and close a circle around it, blocking his own magical energy from leaving his immediate vicinity.
I imagine that would work okay. Still inconvenient, but not as much as blowing up your friend's new HD television...
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Assuming a wizard has some mundane (or at least low-level practitioner) friends, the easiest way to share in listening to music or watching TV is for the wizard to have his own chair and close a circle around it, blocking his own magical energy from leaving his immediate vicinity.
I imagine that would work okay. Still inconvenient, but not as much as blowing up your friend's new HD television...
IIRC Jim said that's how Molly watches TV with her family.
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Why do I suddenly have an image of little Harry jumping up onto Molly's lap right in the middle of the family watching a Cubs game and the TV getting wrecked? :P
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Why do I suddenly have an image of little Harry jumping up onto Molly's lap right in the middle of the family watching a Cubs game and the TV getting wrecked? :P
Wow...one way or another it's always "Harry's" fault. lol
Someone mentioned piping and wiring breaking a circle. I don't believe that's the case though. If you draw the circle over a surface and there are objects in the path that don't or can't move, drawing the circle over those still completes the circle. What would break it is the water flowing through the pipes, most likely. It would be complicated, but it could be possible to fashion a ring around the pipe that acts like a "hole under the fence" to draw the circle over and not be directly crossed by the water. Since the pipe separates the water from the ring and circle, it shouldn't ground out the energies of either. It seems that running water has to be in direct contact or close to it...at the least there can't be anything separating it from you except a step or two of distance at most. Otherwise plumbing in modern buildings would bar the activities of most supernatural creatures.
Frankly...I think it'd be worth it to have hot showers, a furnace and A/C.
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Wow...one way or another it's always "Harry's" fault. lol
Someone mentioned piping and wiring breaking a circle. I don't believe that's the case though. If you draw the circle over a surface and there are objects in the path that don't or can't move, drawing the circle over those still completes the circle. What would break it is the water flowing through the pipes, most likely. It would be complicated, but it could be possible to fashion a ring around the pipe that acts like a "hole under the fence" to draw the circle over and not be directly crossed by the water. Since the pipe separates the water from the ring and circle, it shouldn't ground out the energies of either. It seems that running water has to be in direct contact or close to it...at the least there can't be anything separating it from you except a step or two of distance at most. Otherwise plumbing in modern buildings would bar the activities of most supernatural creatures.
Frankly...I think it'd be worth it to have hot showers, a furnace and A/C.
But what about that one annoying fly? Or mesquito, cockroach, spider, etc? Anything physical that crosses the circle will break it. Heck, Harry worries about DUST when he's working with his summoning circle.
I'd hate to see what happens to the water heater when a spider breaks the circle while Harry's working with Little Chicago...the risks are not worth the price, if you ask me.
-EF
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Out of curiosity, where is everyone getting the rules for magic circles? Or is it purely speculation based on the books? If we treat a magical circle as a threshold (and bear in mind Bob say's we should worry about magic circles at all YS230) then it only affects supernatural power. If the circle itself is damaged (the chalk is rubbed out, the salt line is broken etc) then the circle doesn't exist any more sure, but a metal circle would need to be damaged for it to break surely? And I don't think a spider or a mosquito would be able to break the average circle at all.
Also, I wonder how high circles extend up? And do they go down too? Magical circles are commonly placed on ceilings in Supernatural but is that because they are aiming down? Can flying or burrowing demons get caught in a circle?
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Also, I wonder how high circles extend up? And do they go down too? Magical circles are commonly placed on ceilings in Supernatural but is that because they are aiming down? Can flying or burrowing demons get caught in a circle?
I interpret them as going high enough to cover what is required in side and deep enough to be below the circle.
The other answer, is they are the size to fit the plot.
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Out of curiosity, where is everyone getting the rules for magic circles? Or is it purely speculation based on the books? If we treat a magical circle as a threshold (and bear in mind Bob say's we should worry about magic circles at all YS230) then it only affects supernatural power. If the circle itself is damaged (the chalk is rubbed out, the salt line is broken etc) then the circle doesn't exist any more sure, but a metal circle would need to be damaged for it to break surely? And I don't think a spider or a mosquito would be able to break the average circle at all.
A physical object or being crossing the boundary of a magic circle breaks it, even if the circle itself isn't marred. See for example Harry and the film cannister in Storm Front.
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Thanks Kordeth, I've read and thoroughly enjoyed most of the books, but it's been a while and I don't have the photographic memory stunt unfortunately. Still, it's a little odd that it works that way, I wonder what the limits are seeing as particles of dirt and so forth obviously don't break it. In game terms I guess it just breaks when something manoeuvre worthy happens to it.
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Thanks Kordeth, I've read and thoroughly enjoyed most of the books, but it's been a while and I don't have the photographic memory stunt unfortunately. Still, it's a little odd that it works that way, I wonder what the limits are seeing as particles of dirt and so forth obviously don't break it. In game terms I guess it just breaks when something manoeuvre worthy happens to it.
Actually, given how scrupulously clean Harry keeps his summoning circle, particles of dirt probably do break it. Just saying. :)
And don't worry, I don't have the photographic memory stunt either, I just finished rereading the series last week.
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Actually, given how scrupulously clean Harry keeps his summoning circle, particles of dirt probably do break it. Just saying. :)
And don't worry, I don't have the photographic memory stunt either, I just finished rereading the series last week.
I think it's dependent on the degree of power of the circle, and its nature...at most. The circle to contain the loup garou was an integrated combination of circles meant to inhibit both spiritual AND physical passage and also any combination of the two. I'm fairly certain that simple dust wouldn't have broken the circle if it took so much to render the original useless, and only Kim's mistakes in the circle's design and control let him get free and kill her. So, dust is out on that.
Harry's newest circle and what he used it for probably required a little more cleanliness than standard circles, yes. Even so, since it's literally physically impossible to get rid of all dust in the air or on the ground without an enforced clean room environment (actually, even in such an environment there's still dust, it's just less pervasive)...dust very likely doesn't break any circle, nor most bugs, since many are too small to be seen and are prevalent in even the cleanest homes. Also, gases don't break them, which are material objects. So either size matters, or something about the establishment of a circle automatically clears the area directly above and around the line. It would also mean any person in a circle for too long would asphyxiate. Not very reasonable at all, even for magic. Harry's just being excessively careful, which doesn't really hurt I supposed. Better safe than sorry.
As for how high a circle goes...probably to a height sufficient to top off whatever's inside, or to the first thing that could've broken it otherwise that intersects it from above, whichever is lower. Don't really have any clue because it hasn't even been mentioned in the least in any book or short story. But, that would be pretty reasonable I'd think.
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Actually, given how scrupulously clean Harry keeps his summoning circle, particles of dirt probably do break it. Just saying. :)
Actually, his sweeping of the circle may just be part of the ritual of using it, harkening back to the old times, possibly when circles weren't a permanent fixture in a lab, but a "virtual" circle out in the woods or a field, and sweeping a circle pattern was a way to visually mark it so that it would be clear in the mind for visualization.
Just my own two cents, after reading quite a few books on Wicca and practices.
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I think of it as like a circuit. Your PC has some dust in it. Too much will impair performance. Actually have solid crap on your graphics card (or something) can cause a short circuit and break something.
When Harry is really putting his circle through its paces with a summoning, slightly degraded efficiency will end up leading to a failure as the creature tries to break it. If a few percent off drops the effect below what he needs it to do, then it's as good as nothing (and perhaps more expensive).
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I think of it as like a circuit. Your PC has some dust in it. Too much will impair performance. Actually have solid crap on your graphics card (or something) can cause a short circuit and break something.
When Harry is really putting his circle through its paces with a summoning, slightly degraded efficiency will end up leading to a failure as the creature tries to break it. If a few percent off drops the effect below what he needs it to do, then it's as good as nothing (and perhaps more expensive).
Apt analogy. A basic circle doing nothing but insulating a device isn't likely to be interfered with by common dust and such...it's just not doing enough to matter. Higher end circles in more intensive tasks will require more care in preparation and maintenance.