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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: ahunting on June 16, 2010, 07:32:05 PM

Title: Venatori Umbrorum
Post by: ahunting on June 16, 2010, 07:32:05 PM

So i begun thinking about making characters from the Venatori Umbrorum. They have been described as Masons with Flame throwers, and they are connected to the Brotherhood of Saint Giles, is there anything else about them in Canon?
Title: Re: Venatori Umbrorum
Post by: Tbora on June 16, 2010, 07:34:00 PM
Alternatively known as templars with machine guns.
Title: Re: Venatori Umbrorum
Post by: Papa Gruff on June 16, 2010, 07:47:15 PM
Actually I think it's sad that Jim hasn't shown us more of the Venatori Umbrorum in the books so far. Masons with flame throwers is such a nice picture in my head. I think a Vanatori Umbrorum special weapons and tactics unit would be a pretty nice theme for a all vanilla mortal group too.
Title: Re: Venatori Umbrorum
Post by: ahunting on June 16, 2010, 08:23:39 PM
I'm sure you can put together a good character with a little creativity at any level of play. Though I do agree it would be particularly well suited for a Mortal game. I get an image of Katar wielding martial artists, teamed with Snipers, a legal specialists, a cranky old professor, a priest, and maybe a socialite all sent off to bump back. (Sort of a happier version of some classic CoC game.)

I'd be tempted to model a rank structure after the masons, or the templars, and build the organization from there.

Title: Re: Venatori Umbrorum
Post by: Mal_Luck on June 16, 2010, 08:34:33 PM
I see them as a paramilitary group that kill evil all over the world using their dayy job connections and finances, obviously they are big enough they would have a "base" worth defending in Proven Guilty.

I'm currently playing a Earth/Lightning Sorcerer/"Unofficial" Wizard who started as a Focused Practitioner that went to the Venatori for training and protection after being turned away by the Council. He is their "mystical big gun" when they need it. Since the Battle of Oregon in Proven Guilty, he's been offered Council and Warden membership but he turned them down.
Title: Re: Venatori Umbrorum
Post by: ryanroyce on June 18, 2010, 04:01:30 AM
Quote from: Papa Gruff on June 16, 2010, 07:47:15 PM
Actually I think it's sad that Jim hasn't shown us more of the Venatori Umbrorum in the books so far. Masons with flame throwers is such a nice picture in my head. I think a Vanatori Umbrorum special weapons and tactics unit would be a pretty nice theme for a all vanilla mortal group too.

 I'd also like to learn more about the Venatori Umbrorum, especially since I'm playing a Venator swordsman at the moment.  While it is somewhat liberating to have free reign to depict them however we (my fellow players and I) like, it's also frustrating to know that whatever we create in the meantime could be completely invalidated in the next novel or short story.  As it is, I see the Venatori as having huge archives of occult counter-measures and lore (possibly even info on Nicodemus that the Knights have lost and common rituals that haven't been diluted through WC publishing), extensive political/financial influence, and being masters of "applied ferromancy" versus the supernatural.

Also, this...
Quote from: jimbutcher
http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,15416.msg728651.html#msg728651 (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,15416.msg728651.html#msg728651)
6) ... And not all the witch hunters were in it for the money.  There was a class of men who knew all about the various forces of the supernatural, out there in the darkness, and who made themselves as able to contend with them as any mortal could be.  If a wizard went all kaboomy on mortals, he knew that there was someone who was going to hunt him, striking in a moment of vulnerability.

(I'll leave it to you to deduce who they grew up into, eventually.  It isn't complicated or hard to see.)

End of the day, even wizards bleed.  And as the wise Governor of California says, if it bleeds, you can kill it.

This tells me that the Venatori (obviously the group he's referring to, IMO) weren't always allies of the White Council and actually posed a credible threat to them, even back when "ferromancy" was far more limited.  What kind of threat could they pose now?

Much like Harry, I'm curious as hell to learn more about them.
Title: Re: Venatori Umbrorum
Post by: Papa Gruff on June 18, 2010, 07:46:26 AM
@ryanroyce: just out of interest. Are you playing a Venator or a member of the Venatori Umbrorum? It's a difference you only get if you have read Backup and that's all the spoiling I'm comfortable with here.
Title: Re: Venatori Umbrorum
Post by: Lanodantheon on June 18, 2010, 09:11:29 AM
One of my first character ideas for Magical Spokane was a "Friendly Neighborhood Venatori" Here's my take on them:

We know they are like the Masons, a secret brotherhood of sorts and we know they use human legal systems to fight the monsters.

My personal spin uses those 2 elements and combined with the idea that when Harry describes them as having machineguns and flamethrowers, he's not exaggerating.

They are represented in Magical Spokane by the Smyth (still pronounced Smith) family. The Smyth family began protecting people from darkness when the Pilgrims settled in Jamestown and then protected the expansion West. The y in their name is a tradition to tell apart the monster hunters from everyone else in the family tree. How many people in profession x do you know with the last name of Smith?

BOth of these traits are usually represented by the Aspects unique to every Smyth: 15th Generation Monster Hunter and the Trouble You Can Pick You Friends, but Not Your Relatives...

The Spokane Smyths are Gunsmiths, with grandfathered permits for weapons from before the Assault Weapons Ban(creative license given WA gun laws) . I represent that with Aspects like, I Have a Permit For That since I would figure that Venatori would have their members ordained so they can make holy water or marriages in a pinch

Their claim to fame in Supernatural Spokane came in the 1950's, when the Dutch Black Court had dug in and bought up half of Downtown after the Great  Fire. The Smyth patriarch found out the Spokane Count didn't like to pay his taxes....
Nothing quite like serving an eviction notice at mid day....  ;D
Title: Re: Venatori Umbrorum
Post by: ahunting on June 19, 2010, 12:42:53 AM
Sounds like good times. :)

Nice Aspects.
Title: Re: Venatori Umbrorum
Post by: surarrin on June 19, 2010, 01:11:32 PM
Quote from: Mal_Luck on June 16, 2010, 08:34:33 PM
I see them as a paramilitary group that kill evil all over the world using their dayy job connections and finances, obviously they are big enough they would have a "base" worth defending in Proven Guilty.

I'm currently playing a Earth/Lightning Sorcerer/"Unofficial" Wizard who started as a Focused Practitioner that went to the Venatori for training and protection after being turned away by the Council. He is their "mystical big gun" when they need it. Since the Battle of Oregon in Proven Guilty, he's been offered Council and Warden membership but he turned them down.

You know you can't actually turn down a membership offer right? They tend to cut peoples heads off for trying to decline.
Title: Re: Venatori Umbrorum
Post by: Deadmanwalking on June 19, 2010, 01:21:46 PM
During the war with the Red Court? To a Venatori Umbrorum (one of their few allies if you recall)? Who isn't breaking any of the Laws? No, they really don't.

Perhaps more importantly, there's no evidence they ever do that. They'll cut your head off if you break a Law whether you're a member or not, but we've never seen the Council do a hard sell, or even recruit at all. They're bastards, but they're elitists too. They test you, and if you take the tests and qualify, you are officially in. Like Harry says, it's like having a Black Belt. They don't need to like you, but if you can do X, Y, and Z, you are in.

Unless you turn them down flat, of course. We've never seen that happen, but it could. I suspect as long as you didn't break any Laws they'd mostly leave you to it. Or consider you a member whether you like it or not and keep sending you invitations to things you don't care about. But kill you? That's not the kind of thing the White Council does unless you break a Law.
Title: Re: Venatori Umbrorum
Post by: ryanroyce on June 19, 2010, 04:20:50 PM
Quote from: Papa Gruff
@ryanroyce: just out of interest. Are you playing a Venator or a member of the Venatori Umbrorum? It's a difference you only get if you have read Backup and that's all the spoiling I'm comfortable with here

I hadn't yet read Backup when I created the character, so
(click to show/hide)

Quote from: Lanodantheon on June 18, 2010, 09:11:29 AM
One of my first character ideas for Magical Spokane was a "Friendly Neighborhood Venatori" Here's my take on them:

We know they are like the Masons, a secret brotherhood of sorts and we know they use human legal systems to fight the monsters.

My personal spin uses those 2 elements and combined with the idea that when Harry describes them as having machineguns and flamethrowers, he's not exaggerating.

They are represented in Magical Spokane by the Smyth (still pronounced Smith) family. The Smyth family began protecting people from darkness when the Pilgrims settled in Jamestown and then protected the expansion West. The y in their name is a tradition to tell apart the monster hunters from everyone else in the family tree. How many people in profession x do you know with the last name of Smith?

BOth of these traits are usually represented by the Aspects unique to every Smyth: 15th Generation Monster Hunter and the Trouble You Can Pick You Friends, but Not Your Relatives...

The Spokane Smyths are Gunsmiths, with grandfathered permits for weapons from before the Assault Weapons Ban(creative license given WA gun laws) . I represent that with Aspects like, I Have a Permit For That since I would figure that Venatori would have their members ordained so they can make holy water or marriages in a pinch

Their claim to fame in Supernatural Spokane came in the 1950's, when the Dutch Black Court had dug in and bought up half of Downtown after the Great  Fire. The Smyth patriarch found out the Spokane Count didn't like to pay his taxes....
Nothing quite like serving an eviction notice at mid day....  ;D

Heh, my character is similar to yours, right down to the high concept: he's a 7th Generation Venatori Umbrorum.  For seven generations, his extended family has comprised a cell of the "flamethrowers and machine guns" side of the Venatori, roaming North America while using "applied ferromancy" to defend humanity from supernatural threats.  However, his immediate family took things a bit too far and fell into negative refresh territory, subtly changing their mission from "protect the mortals" to "kill the monsters".  To make a long story short, my character called it quits when they attempted to kill a 12yo white court virgin.

He now resides in Atlanta, running a kendo dojo and playing the local hero.  He is a superb athlete and swordsman, on par with Luccio and Morgan (I checked), with lots of ferromancy at his disposal.  One of his aspects is Pocket Full of Kryptonite, which he can invoke when he needs to have just the right piece of gear in his Batman-esque gym bag.
Title: Re: Venatori Umbrorum
Post by: Lanodantheon on July 01, 2010, 05:02:10 AM
Quote from: ryanroyce on June 19, 2010, 04:20:50 PM
I hadn't yet read Backup when I created the character, so
(click to show/hide)

Heh, my character is similar to yours, right down to the high concept: he's a 7th Generation Venatori Umbrorum.  For seven generations, his extended family has comprised a cell of the "flamethrowers and machine guns" side of the Venatori, roaming North America while using "applied ferromancy" to defend humanity from supernatural threats.  However, his immediate family took things a bit too far and fell into negative refresh territory, subtly changing their mission from "protect the mortals" to "kill the monsters".  To make a long story short, my character called it quits when they attempted to kill a 12yo white court virgin.

He now resides in Atlanta, running a kendo dojo and playing the local hero.  He is a superb athlete and swordsman, on par with Luccio and Morgan (I checked), with lots of ferromancy at his disposal.  One of his aspects is Pocket Full of Kryptonite, which he can invoke when he needs to have just the right piece of gear in his Batman-esque gym bag.

Great Minds think alike.  ;D They actually have 2000 members I thought. I'll need my copy of Backup to confirm.

I Have a Permit For That covers a bunch of stuff. The Smyths as a whole have a lot of survival training. The family has an unofficial tradition of military service (particularly in special forces) and their own private security/military company, Smyth Solutions which can be an aspect, but not necessarily
"Be prepared" is not accurate enough. Family sayings include, "Never walk into a play you don't know how to walk out of 3 ways" "Always know where your holy ground is" "Never go anywhere unless you have a right to be there" and "Always have handy a Knife, A priest and Explosives"
Which is why the Smyths are also Ordained Ministers (they think of themselves as "Baptist Lite")

Smyth(the character) also has the Aspect Equal Opportunity Destroyer  which represents the cold-blooded Deontological mindset put into every Monster-Hunter. As long as uninvolved civilians are evacuated, they have a fairly loose definition of  what a monster is.
As a family, they are taught to not care whether it is a White-Court Virgin, Red-Court Infected or whatever. If it ain't human it is open game. Plus, being mostly ex-military, the Smyths are not afraid to shoot a wizard dead if he/she gets in the way.
The Smyths wouldn't hesitate to shoot a WCV if one got in the way, but that's the way they are. But, they do minimize casualties.

My FNV wouldn't use a sword no matter how good he was with it unless it was a magical sword that could catch holy-fire. Guns are safer and I think there's a family motto, "Magic/Faith/Courage makes you stupid"

My original inspiration for the character was both the Venatori as described and John Constantine as depicted in the movie (A bad-ass mostly mortal who uses a lot of magical gizmos and arcane knick-knacks). I'm not sure what the proper Aspect would be though for multiple Items of Power in this case. They are less likely to be the WInchester Bros with the one magical gun(I don't know the show well, correct me if dead wrong) and more likely to be the a-holes who bless the fire trucks of an entire firehouse before molotoving the Vampire hideout.
Title: Re: Venatori Umbrorum
Post by: FutureGameDesigner on July 01, 2010, 06:23:46 AM
Forget the VU...I wanna know about the Library of Congress' Special Acquisitions Division!  Any group that can make JB claim that you don't mess with Librarians is just begging for awesome sauce.

The VU are pretty cool though.
Title: Re: Venatori Umbrorum
Post by: Lanodantheon on July 01, 2010, 06:58:06 AM
Quote from: FutureGameDesigner on July 01, 2010, 06:23:46 AM
Forget the VU...I wanna know about the Library of Congress' Special Acquisitions Division!  Any group that can make JB claim that you don't mess with Librarians is just begging for awesome sauce.

The VU are pretty cool though.

Although I agree with that statement, I like the VU. It's obviously designed for PCs in mind.

THe SAD of the LoC would be need, but there would have to be paper masters...... ;D
Title: Re: Venatori Umbrorum
Post by: Arcteryx on July 19, 2010, 03:34:20 AM
Quote from: Lanodantheon on July 01, 2010, 05:02:10 AM
I Have a Permit For That covers a bunch of stuff. The Smyths as a whole have a lot of survival training. The family has an unofficial tradition of military service (particularly in special forces) and their own private security/military company, Smyth Solutions which can be an aspect, but not necessarily "Be prepared" is not accurate enough. Family sayings include, "Never walk into a play you don't know how to walk out of 3 ways" "Always know where your holy ground is" "Never go anywhere unless you have a right to be there" and "Always have handy a Knife, A priest and Explosives"
Which is why the Smyths are also Ordained Ministers (they think of themselves as "Baptist Lite")

I just wanted to chime in to say how awesome this is. Mining many ideas right out of this...!
Title: Re: Venatori Umbrorum
Post by: Jaroslav on July 19, 2010, 06:19:33 AM
Quote from: surarrin on June 19, 2010, 01:11:32 PM
You know you can't actually turn down a membership offer right? They tend to cut peoples heads off for trying to decline.
No you can decline. You just have to prove you aren't a danger to anyone.
Title: Re: Venatori Umbrorum
Post by: Esoteric on July 19, 2010, 07:38:33 AM
Quote
No you can decline. You just have to prove you aren't a danger to anyone.

Agreed - it certainly doesn't make you any friends, but if you haven't broken any of the laws they wouldn't be out to kill you, though I'd imagine the White Council would have a tab on you at all times
Title: Re: Venatori Umbrorum
Post by: Todjaeger on July 21, 2010, 06:36:00 AM
With regards to declining membership in the White Council, all one need do is to "throw" some of the tests.  As a certain Wizard did some time prior to White Night.

As for the Venatori Umbrorum and the Special Acquisitions Division of the Library of Congress...  Whose to say that the SAD (or even the entire LoC) isn't part of the Venatori Umbrorum?  Particularly if one wants to take the idea of "Masons with Flamethrowers" idea even further, alongside the some of the various stories regarding the founding of the US and/or the Founding Fathers.
Title: Re: Venatori Umbrorum
Post by: Arcteryx on July 21, 2010, 06:02:46 PM
I mined some of the ideas in this thread to give the VU's a special acquisitions group... its a GREAT reason to have a bunch of tomb raiders and contractors who recover overdue books and misappropriated library resources from patrons who've neglected to return them to the library. Fun stuff!
Title: Re: Venatori Umbrorum
Post by: black omega on July 21, 2010, 11:16:05 PM
Quote from: Lanodantheon on July 01, 2010, 06:58:06 AM
Although I agree with that statement, I like the VU. It's obviously designed for PCs in mind.

THe SAD of the LoC would be need, but there would have to be paper masters...... ;D
I'm an anime fan and I endorse this message.  Papermancy can even mostly be simulated by the DFRPG system.  I see the VU as officially separate from the government and working back channels, so would see SAG as a separate group but there's probably be contact between them.