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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Crion on June 03, 2010, 01:43:30 PM

Title: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Crion on June 03, 2010, 01:43:30 PM
I've always had fun with playing characters that were "in between" two groups, and my old group from college has been much the same way. Now that we are all reading the Dresden RPG, the various Scion-like ideas are coming out to play. It also doesn't help that we've all played White Wolf's "Scion" and "Exalted" lines, which just adds fuel to the fire.

So my question for you: what sort of Scions have you made and used in your game?

Do you prefer to use the "traditional" kind (i.e. half mortal, half deity), or have you used a different approach (such as the Changeling idea; half human, half something else)?

What other entities have you used besides the mythological gods?

What of the descendants of an original scion (for an in-game example, think Mouse)?

What is your approach to designing/building a Scion? Have you gone low-refresh with acquiring powers as they "awaken," or did you just toss your powers together and said "Go"?


The idea of Scions also got me to thinking of the following. . .
What about the traditional Dhampir and their various retellings? Would you just modify the Red Court Infected, or would you recreate them using the Black Court?

What about using a "minor" entity as the parent? This can still include changelings and most demons, but I'm referencing things a little less common, like specific entities/beings or a specific but rare classification of an entity? (Dragons, Valkyries, Ancient/Unaligned Fae, etc)

Have you ever thought of a descendant of a non-scion hero having abilities of their ancestor? The idea of a hero that was NOT the child of a deity/entity, but his/her specific gifts have somehow passed through the bloodline tends to be an amusing plot device for me. (Examples in myth include Sigurd/Sigmund, although many other heroes can be viewed as options).


I think I'll stop the ramble there and let you all have at it!
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: feliscon on June 03, 2010, 02:14:08 PM
I made a nephilim for a PbP game, but my group had some problems with him having Soulfire, and it didn't really make sense to me for him to not have it, so I'm changing character. My eventual list of powers would have been Soulfire, Supernatural Speed and Recovery (catch is Hellfire 'unholy stuff' and True Faith of people who still truly believe that Nephilim are abominations) Inhuman Strength and Wings under a Human Guise. Also would have added Holy Touch independant of Rightousness attached to the wings and human guise if the GM allowed it (when he spreads his wings his whole body shines with holy light and burns holy-vunerable creatures)

I can post him if people are interested.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: John Galt on June 03, 2010, 02:55:06 PM
I made a nephilim for a PbP game, but my group had some problems with him having Soulfire, and it didn't really make sense to me for him to not have it, so I'm changing character. My eventual list of powers would have been Soulfire, Supernatural Speed and Recovery (catch is Hellfire 'unholy stuff' and True Faith of people who still truly believe that Nephilim are abominations) Inhuman Strength and Wings under a Human Guise. Also would have added Holy Touch independant of Rightousness attached to the wings and human guise if the GM allowed it (when he spreads his wings his whole body shines with holy light and burns holy-vunerable creatures)

I can post him if people are interested.

One of my "evil" character concepts is a scion of a frost or fire Giant in norse mythology, maybe a son of Ymir himself.  He'd look something like this:

High Concept: Giant Bastard
Trouble: Ragnarok Starter

Powers: [-1] Elemental Fists (claws), [-4] Supernatural Strength, [-4] Supernatural Toughness, [+3] Fire or Ice

Skills:
Superb: Might, Endurance
Great: Intimidation, Fists
Good: Athletics, Presence
Fair: Alertness, Craftsmenship
Average: Discipline, Conviction

Items: Full body armor (armor 2), Brass Knuckles (Fists +1)


Stress:
Physical: 0000 (0000) (not fire/ice)
Mental: 000
Social: 0000

Armor: 0000
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Deadmanwalking on June 03, 2010, 03:52:35 PM
Brass Knuckles (Fists +1)

Armor: 0000

OT for this thread, but weapons never give a bonus to a skill, Brass Knuckles are just Weapon: 1 which you can use with Fists (and thus in no way stack with Claws). Also, by the official rules, armor does not and cannot stack. And the creators have strongly advised that if you do allow it to stack (as I do), you have additional armor complement the highest one, like a complementing skill, and thus only grant +1 for atotal armor of 3 on this character.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: John Galt on June 03, 2010, 04:09:56 PM
Well as I understood it he'd only have 2 armor against attacks of the nature of his catch, so like his physical stress, it was ok to have 4 armor when his weakness is very easily researched.

As for the brass knuckles, I guess I could make them into an item of power.  Elemental fists wasn't going to work exactly like claws, it was simply going to do weapon 1 fire or ice damage, and thus the brass knuckles would stack doing weapon 1 or 2 physical damage.  My problem was with the fact they would do more damage the harder he hit so I wasn't sure how to express that other than fists +1 (offense).  I suppose I could just make them a 0 cost item of power that was tied to an aspect that granted +2 to fists offensively and a compel of -2 defensively since they could weight him down.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Deadmanwalking on June 03, 2010, 04:36:30 PM
Oh, I'm not really arguing balance on the Brass Knucles, just the way the rules work, which is pretty simple: Brass Knuckles are Weapon: 1 (which would stack with Strength bonuses, but not claws). You could make Elemental Fists +1 Stress and stackable to go with the knuckles...but that's actually demonstratably worse than just having them be Weapon: 2.

Though directly adding to skills IS legitimately something that only Items of Power and other things that cost Refresh should really be able to do. Your second idea is identical to a Stunt Fix has, and thus shouldn't be available for free, IMO.

On the armor: Reducing all Stress by 4 is really ridiculous actually. Reducing it by 3 is legitimately much more balanced.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: John Galt on June 03, 2010, 04:51:51 PM
Oh, I'm not really arguing balance on the Brass Knucles, just the way the rules work, which is pretty simple: Brass Knuckles are Weapon: 1 (which would stack with Strength bonuses, but not claws). You could make Elemental Fists +1 Stress and stackable to go with the knuckles...but that's actually demonstratably worse than just having them be Weapon: 2.

Though directly adding to skills IS legitimately something that only Items of Power and other things that cost Refresh should really be able to do. Your second idea is identical to a Stunt Fix has, and thus shouldn't be available for free, IMO.

On the armor: Reducing all Stress by 4 is really ridiculous actually. Reducing it by 3 is legitimately much more balanced.

Well I'll think about the brass knuckles.  This character will probably never see the light of day anyway.  He's an evil/neutral guy and he's third on my list of evil/neutral characters I want to play. 

For the armor I don't see how having four armor against anything not fire, and 2 armor against fire is anymore unbalanced than a magic user having a cloak that gives Armor 4 with 4 uses or more, which is easily doable at this giant's power level (chest deep).
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Deadmanwalking on June 03, 2010, 04:59:00 PM
Um, while that's doable, it's the product of an extremely focused Crafting character (his only defense, in point of fact) and only usable for free 4 times per session, after which it costs Mental Stress AND it's from an item that can be taken away and (unlike armor) not easily replaced. Always-on effects cost more for the same effect, and do so for a reason.

But all that's neither here nor there, I'm actually not primarily arguing what I think is balanced. I'm stating that by the official rules, armor doesn't stack. Period. And that the game designers have gone on record as saying that if you do allow it to, the Complementing method is the way to go.


To sum up: I'm not really arguing the character is unbalanced, just that there are some rules errors in it that should probably be cleared up at some point.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Falar on June 03, 2010, 05:12:17 PM
I was thinking the other night about going with a Half Demon that's striving to get into the angelic hosts. He has this horrible demon side that wants to do all kinds of things and tempts him with power, but it also lets him know about the pure love, grace, and beauty that is heaven and wants it and thinks it will never deserve it.

Something like that at least. Someone who is balanced on the knife edge between serving heaven and serving hell and serving mortality and how they can't quite fit in where they are, but neither option is an easy choice that they can just do.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: John Galt on June 03, 2010, 05:19:46 PM
ah, gotcha.  Well armor 3 against any non fire attack is still pretty stellar so I guess I wouldn't complain too much.  I'm also considering giving him only inhuman toughness and inhuman strength and then the modular power to shapeshift into a Frost Giant with superhuman strength  and hulking size.  I'm just not sure I'm confident on how modular abilities work.  As far as I can tell my powers would be:

inhuman toughness[-2]; catch[+3]
inhuman strength [-2]
Human form [+1]

Giant Form [-2]
superhuman strength[-4]
hulking size [-2]

But that would make my total refresh 8, which is kind of silly since I can get similar effects without bothering to have a giant form for less refresh.  In fact, I'm not even sure if inhuman toughness automatically carries over to my giant form or I have to count it as 2 more refresh for the modular ability, making my refresh cost 10.  Modular abilities confuse me.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Deadmanwalking on June 03, 2010, 05:31:31 PM
Modular Abilities aren't needed for what you want, they're for the ability to shift into a variety of other forms with varying abilities at will (so you can have Claws and Wings OR Hulking Size OR Inhuman Speed or whatever else you want). For a single additional form, you just need the Human Form drawback.



Personally, I'd build it like this:

Claws [-1]
Inhuman Strength [-2]
Supernatural Toughness [-4]
The Catch is Fire and Heat [+3]

Human Form [+1] effecting
Hulking Size [-2]
Supernatural Strength [-2]

That's -7 Refresh and seems appropriate. Technically, you could have only Hulking Size be effected by Human Form (keeping Supernatural Strength even at human size)...but that would result in you not getting much stronger when you grew, which has a few logical issues for me personally.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: John Galt on June 03, 2010, 05:38:35 PM
cool.  I like that better.  Thanks for the help.

EDIT:

Do I not need a power to shape change into a giant?  It doesn't seem like I would since I have no intention of reallocating skills when in my giant form but you seem to know better than I do on the shapechanging aspects of this game, which, I admit, continue to confuse me.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Deadmanwalking on June 03, 2010, 05:49:44 PM
Having derailed things somewhat, I'll now respond to the original questions:

I've always had fun with playing characters that were "in between" two groups, and my old group from college has been much the same way. Now that we are all reading the Dresden RPG, the various Scion-like ideas are coming out to play. It also doesn't help that we've all played White Wolf's "Scion" and "Exalted" lines, which just adds fuel to the fire.

Yeah, I'm in a similiar situation in regards to previous readings, actually. Though my group has only one actual Scion at the moment (well, not counting the Changeling).

So my question for you: what sort of Scions have you made and used in your game?

Well, in my game there's a Fetch-spawn Changeling Troubleshooter with Seelie Magic (long story), and an ex-Con Woman turned Madame daughter of Loki in my current roster, and two of the three people who are unavailable right now but going to play are Scion-like (a half-demon and a thief whose family long ago made a deal with Hermes for power). So there's those.
 
Do you prefer to use the "traditional" kind (i.e. half mortal, half deity), or have you used a different approach (such as the Changeling idea; half human, half something else)?

Depends on what the player wishes to play. I mean, I think Scions should be kept fairly rare, so as to be something special, so I don't have a whole lot of NPC ones.

What other entities have you used besides the mythological gods?

Demons and Fairies so far, but I can see using almost anything.

What of the descendants of an original scion (for an in-game example, think Mouse)?

The character whose family made a deal with Hermes is basically one of these. Or an Emissary of Power, depending on your perspective.

What is your approach to designing/building a Scion? Have you gone low-refresh with acquiring powers as they "awaken," or did you just toss your powers together and said "Go"?

More the second than the first, I think most Scions at Submerged power level (where my game's set) are probably experienced enough to have figured their basic power-set out by now.

The idea of Scions also got me to thinking of the following. . .
What about the traditional Dhampir and their various retellings? Would you just modify the Red Court Infected, or would you recreate them using the Black Court?

I might allow something like that for the Black Court, yeah. In my world, the Red Court are native to the Americas and those Dhampir legends in medeval Europe had to come from somewhere...

What about using a "minor" entity as the parent? This can still include changelings and most demons, but I'm referencing things a little less common, like specific entities/beings or a specific but rare classification of an entity? (Dragons, Valkyries, Ancient/Unaligned Fae, etc)

Well, I doubt our Half-Demon's family are going to be very powerful, and the Changeling has already surpassed his Fetch father in power (and killec the bastard).

Have you ever thought of a descendant of a non-scion hero having abilities of their ancestor? The idea of a hero that was NOT the child of a deity/entity, but his/her specific gifts have somehow passed through the bloodline tends to be an amusing plot device for me. (Examples in myth include Sigurd/Sigmund, although many other heroes can be viewed as options).

Again, depending on perspective, the Hermes-blessed thief could fall into this category.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Deadmanwalking on June 03, 2010, 05:51:25 PM
cool.  I like that better.  Thanks for the help.

No problem, happy to help.  :)

Do I not need a power to shape change into a giant?  It doesn't seem like I would since I have no intention of reallocating skills when in my giant form but you seem to know better than I do on the shapechanging aspects of this game, which, I admit, continue to confuse me.

Nope, you're right. You can do that with nothing but Human Form as long as you don't shift skills around.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: John Galt on June 03, 2010, 06:39:30 PM
Another idea I've been considering for a scion is the son of Janus, the Greek God of Time (roughly).  He'd basically be a focused practioner who could see into the future and past in a similar way that the Gatekeeper does, but a little more detailed, and used those glimpses, along with his ingenious mind, to invent both magical and physical wonders beyond the comprehension of many wizards and engineers of his day.

He'd look something like this:

High Concept: Inventor for the God of Time
Trouble: Way Too Curious

Powers: [-3] Thaumaturgy (crafting, strength), Refinement [-1] (frequency), [-1] Improved Psychometry (sponsored)

Skills:
Great: Lore
Good: Scholarship, Discipline, Crafting
Fair: Alertness, Endurance, Presence, Conviction
Average: Resources, Driving, Guns, Athletics

Items:
Force Ring: (Weapon 5, Uses: 4) (2 enchanted item slots)
Shield Crystal (Block 8 or Armor 4, Uses: 5) (5 enchanted item slots)
Potion Slot

Laser Pistol- Weapon 3
Force Shield- Armor 1
Nuclear Grenades (4)- Weapon 6 (two zones)



Stress:
Physical: 000
Mental: 000
Social: 000
Armor: 0

Adjusted Refresh: 2
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Deadmanwalking on June 03, 2010, 06:50:48 PM
Items:
Force Ring: (Weapon 4, Uses: 4) (2 enchanted item slots)
Lab Coat: (Armor 4, Uses: 4) (2 enchanted item slots)
Shield Crystal (Block 8, Uses: 4) (3 enchanted item slots)
Potion Slot

With Great Lore and no Thaumaturgy Specialties, those Items don't work. You also can't stack two Enchanted Item defenses. On the other hand on Block/Armor effect Items, you get to choose between the two on each use.

With that in mind, here's how I'd do it:

Force Ring (Weapon 4, Uses: 3) (2 enchanted item slots)
Shield Crystal (Block 6 or Armor 3, Uses: 5) (5 enchanted item slots)
1 Potion Slot.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: John Galt on June 03, 2010, 06:56:32 PM
With Great Lore and no Thaumaturgy Specialties, those Items don't work. You also can't stack two Enchanted Item defenses. On the other hand on Block/Armor effect Items, you get to choose between the two on each use.

With that in mind, here's how I'd do it:

Force Ring (Weapon 4, Uses: 3) (2 enchanted item slots)
Shield Crystal (Block 6 or Armor 3, Uses: 5) (5 enchanted item slots)
1 Potion Slot.

Oh, I'll change his power to [-3] Thaumaturgy then with a focus in crafting.  I mistakenly thought I still got the specialization with ritual, I just couldn't take another specialization after that.

I forgot about the defense thing.  I'll edit it now.  Thanks for the help again.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Mattastic on June 03, 2010, 07:43:58 PM
What would a half-dragon half-human look like? (Submerged.)
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: feliscon on June 03, 2010, 08:02:36 PM
Well we don't really know enough about Dresdenverse Dragons to be sure, but I'd say things like Breath Weapon (obviously), Supernatural Toughness (scaly armoured skin), Supernatural Strength, Human Guise (Ferrovax doesn't always look like a giant winged dinosaur), and quite possibly spellcasting would all be valid options for half-Dragons.

To be honest though, given how powerful WoJ has implied True Dragons to be half-dragons might well not fit into Submerged unless they were really weak examples.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: John Galt on June 03, 2010, 08:27:02 PM
What would a half-dragon half-human look like? (Submerged.)

I don't have OW, so it might actually be in there.  The way I'd make one (and I've actually considered it) is like this:

High Concept: Illegitimate Son of Farovax
Trouble: Legitimate Half-Dragon

Skills as human:
Superb: Conviction, Lore
Great: Discipline, Presence
Good: Endurance, Deceit
Fair: Rapport, Alertness, Athletics
Average: Fists, Intimidation, Scholarship, Resources, Survival

Powers: [-3] Evocation (Fire, Spirit, Earth), Human Form [+1]

Beast Change [-1]:
[-4] superhuman toughness
[+3] Catch- Swords of the Cross, True Magic, Running Water
[-1] Breath Weapon (fire)
[-1] Claws
[-1] Wings
[-2] Hulking Size

Skills as Dragon:
Superb: Might, Endurance
Great: Conviction, Weapons
Good: Alertness, Intimidation
Fair: Athletics, Survival, Lore
Average: Presence, Deceit, Resources, Discipline, Scholarship

Focus Items:
Dragon Scale:  (+1 Defensive Control, Spirit)
Focus Bracelet (+1 Offensive Control, Spirit)

Stress in human form:
Mental: 0000
Physical: 0000
Social: 0000

Stress in Dragon Form:

Mental: 0000
Physical: 0000 (0000)
Social: 000
Armor: 00

 

Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: wyvern on June 03, 2010, 08:42:32 PM
Well, at one extreme, you could have a character who hasn't come into their power yet.  High Concept: Unwitting Heir to (insert name of dragon here).  Trouble: What you don't know *can* hurt you.  Powers?  Marked by Power at -1, and the option to, much like a changeling, buy appropriate powers further down the line.

The next question, though, is what *kind* of dragon.
Consider a scion of an oriental dragon, for example.  You'd be looking at Draconic Magic (-4 refresh - essentially a sponsored magic variant focusing on water and life magic), Human Guise, Wings (-1 refresh, and note that there are no actual wings here, you can just fly when in dragon form), probably all four physical powers at inhuman level (we'll assume you can find +3 worth of catch on your toughness / recovery powers, so that's another -5 refresh), and a +1 one-time bonus for item of power: a Pearl of Wisdom*, which powers your flight and spellcasting (and probably your inhuman recovery, too).  Total cost is 9 refresh, though there are certainly plausible variations, like dropping inhuman speed and making the pearl of wisdom just a focus item for your spellcasting instead of an out-and-out item of power.

_____
* A full oriental dragon can grow their own pearl of wisdom if theirs gets lost, destroyed, or even just given away as a gift.  A half dragon might be able to do the same, given sufficient time... but it'd be at least on par with recovering from an extreme consequence.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: John Galt on June 03, 2010, 08:58:47 PM
Well we don't really know enough about Dresdenverse Dragons to be sure, but I'd say things like Breath Weapon (obviously), Supernatural Toughness (scaly armoured skin), Supernatural Strength, Human Guise (Ferrovax doesn't always look like a giant winged dinosaur), and quite possibly spellcasting would all be valid options for half-Dragons.

To be honest though, given how powerful WoJ has implied True Dragons to be half-dragons might well not fit into Submerged unless they were really weak examples.

One of my character ideas has been a scion of a lesser dragon for waist deep.  Basically just

[-2] inhuman speed, [-1] Beast Change

Human Guise [+1]
[-2] inhuman toughness
[+1] Specific Metal
[-2] Breath Weapon (fire)
[-1] Claws

I think lesser dragons and scions of lesser dragons can fit just fine in anything at waist deep or above.  But true dragon and a scion that had a power similar to that wouldn't fit at all, as you said.  Farovax powers would look more like-

[-3] Evocation (Fire, Earth, Spirit)
[-4] Refinement

Beast Change, Human Form [+1] True Magic/Faith, Swords of the Cross
[-0] Breath Weapon
[-2] Hulking Size
[-6] Mythic Strength
[-2] Inhuman Speed

But most of that is guessing.  Like you said, we don't really have a clear picture of the power of Dragons, except that Farovax, a high dragon and self declared eldest of dragons (and thus more powerful) basically has the evocation power of a high immortal like the Red King, Odin, or a Faerie Queen.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: feliscon on June 03, 2010, 09:06:04 PM
I think Ferrovax is WAY above that... In an interview around when Changes came out, Jim was asked who would win if Mab and Ferrovax fought. His answer was something along these lines (not a direct quote)

"If Mab, Lea and Maeve together ambushed Ferrovax at the height of midwinter on the ground of their choosing he would still wipe the floor with them. Ferro is a primal force of nature, in another weightclass"

Which broke my brain for a while, I have to say...
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: John Galt on June 03, 2010, 09:11:22 PM
I think Ferrovax is WAY above that... In an interview around when Changes came out, Jim was asked who would win if Mab and Ferrovax fought. His answer was something along these lines (not a direct quote)

"If Mab, Lea and Maeve together ambushed Ferrovax at the height of midwinter on the ground of their choosing he would still wipe the floor with them. Ferro is a primal force of nature, in another weightclass"

Which broke my brain for a while, I have to say...

Wow.  Well I missed that interview, lol.  At that point it's just silly trying to stat him.  You probably need to play either a group with 100 refresh between the four of them or a group of all Knights of the Cross to even think about fighting him.

But remember too that he's probably telling the truth.  He's the eldest Dragon.  So a Farovax scion might be out of the question, but scions of lesser dragons still have a place in the dresdenverse (rpg) I think. 
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: feliscon on June 03, 2010, 09:19:53 PM
Yeah, lesser dragon scions work, but I get the impression that only True Dragons can take human form and are not animalistic enough to avoid a serious squick factor there... However, a half lesser dragon/half komodo dragon would be awsome  ;)
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: ballplayer72 on June 03, 2010, 09:46:15 PM
Wow.  Well I missed that interview, lol.  At that point it's just silly trying to stat him.  You probably need to play either a group with 100 refresh between the four of them or a group of all Knights of the Cross to even think about fighting him.

But remember too that he's probably telling the truth.  He's the eldest Dragon.  So a Farovax scion might be out of the question, but scions of lesser dragons still have a place in the dresdenverse (rpg) I think. 

Not necessarily.  remember ferro has all that umph because hes the ELDEST Dragon.    His scion would be a hatchling in comparison for the entire campaign and for millenia after the campaign.  I bet it takes a while to get up to Ferro's mojo level, and thats if youre a full blood Dragon, which a scion wouldn't be ;)

2 cents
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: feliscon on June 03, 2010, 09:55:18 PM
Not necessarily.  remember ferro has all that umph because hes the ELDEST Dragon.    His scion would be a hatchling in comparison for the entire campaign and for millenia after the campaign.  I bet it takes a while to get up to Ferro's mojo level, and thats if youre a full blood Dragon, which a scion wouldn't be ;)

2 cents

Good point well made  ;)
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Deadmanwalking on June 03, 2010, 10:13:04 PM
Oh, I'll change his power to [-3] Thaumaturgy then with a focus in crafting.  I mistakenly thought I still got the specialization with ritual, I just couldn't take another specialization after that.

I forgot about the defense thing.  I'll edit it now.  Thanks for the help again.

Ah, that'll help. Your current version is still a bit off, though. Both should be only 3 uses per session, even with the specialty (though dropping the Weapon rating back to 4 would also work on the first one). And no problem, happy to be of assistance.


As for Dragons, for a Half-Dragon, I'd likely grant Inhuman Strength, Inhuman Toughness, maybe Beast Change with Claws and Wings and Sponsored Magic from their draconic parent. That's only a fraction of their parent's power...but going by the ability to play demigods, that's hardly unusual.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: toturi on June 04, 2010, 12:38:13 PM
Scion of a Grigori and a mage

Scion of Cain (of Abel and Cain infamy, and no, not a vampire)

Scion of Jesus (the greatn grandson of the Son of God)
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: GirlEntropy on June 27, 2010, 08:07:10 PM
Just wanted to jump in with my example.  In one of the two Dresden games running in our house (I am running the other)  I am playing an Emissary of Power.  My character is the scion of Loki.  (power level submerged)  His highest stats are all social. And he is rocking the glamours.  So basically he is a pain in the rear trickster.   (he was in fact inspired by the trickster character from Supernatural) AKA: really fun to play!
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Belial666 on June 27, 2010, 09:53:32 PM
Here's my very first DF character, one I've yet to play in the game. As long as you don't look at her with the Sight and you don't mind the occasional otherworldly aura, she's a cute girl... in an eldritch abomination sort of way. She's the scion of a greater outsider but still too young to have anywhere close to her full power.


Quote
Character: Lily Young Player: Belial
Template: Scion (modeled on changeling)
High Concept Aspect: Cute Eldritch Horror
Trouble Aspect: Unearthly yet Clueless

There are beings beyond this reality that few will name, even if they can. Luckily for us clueless mortals, the Outsiders are all locked beyond the Gates. Or are they? What if one could arrange for a living being to be born that could take a small piece of itself into the world at birth? And then, as said being grew, that piece would grow while the outsider waned until the two became one and free to act in the world.
But life is notoriously difficult to predict and easy to change at an early stage. What if a loving parent taught the child human values? What if she was kept away from the supernatural so the desire for power did not corrupt her? What if the child was cute and likable and had no plans of world domination? Free will is a wonderful and terrible thing.
So said child was born. She's a cute young woman now, always striving to be likable and help others, with a healthy dose of responsibility after growing up in a farm. Problem is, those people in the know sense something is wrong with her, something that makes them uneasy. That she has no clue whatsoever of how the supernatural works and she fails to be scared or respectful or understanding or just knowing when to shut her mouth tends to complicate things.

(http://seto.altervista.org/favole/gallery/006_Favole.jpg)

Appearance
Lily is tall, slim and good-looking, with long brown hair, green eyes, delicate nose and a heart-shaped face with dimples. While vigorous and healthy, she looks a bit pale and young for her age, still clinging to that girlish line of late sixteen and easily falling to the cute expressions common to children. Despite having worked in a farm, her hands look delicate and without caluses and she has no scars older than a year or two.
Her powers manifest physically as an aura of unease or subtle features like black eyes, long ears or muscles playing under her skin when it is something subtle as speed or sensory enhancement and rarely appear as anything monstrous... to human eyes. Those having the senses to pierce her human guise usually see something unnatural and terrible but still beautiful beneath.

ITEM OF POWER
Scion of Darkness
Lily's coat is a powerful item associated with powers from beyond this reality. When using the item she may employ sponsored magic from that source. Such magic is often alien and while it applies to spirit as well as normal magics, it works on the other elements subtractively; draining energy instead of light or fire, diminishing earth and its forces instead of shaping it, using void instead of air and lightning and so on. It functions especially well for subtractive spirit magic; reducing minds and energies to nothing.
Mechanically, treat as spirit for evocations. +1 power/control for spells that inflict stress or consequenses. For thaumaturgy, add disruption, conjuration, diabolism. (diabolism refers to outsiders, not denizens of Hell. The magic should be mechanically equivalent to Hellfire, only the flavor is different)
Agenda
The coat, like all items of power, is tied to a powerful entity, a purpose if its own. Debt incurred when using magic from it compels that agenda... which is the weakening of the Veil between this world and others.
It is what it is
The coat is made of heavy fabrics and since it is indestructible it is very good in stopping most attacks. Of course, it is not rigid (as the wearer could not move) and does not cover everything so very precise or very powerful attacks carry through and deal damage. (armor 3)
Indestructible
The coat cannot be permanently damaged unless somehow used in a ritual to pervert its purpose.
Secrets
The origins of the coat have been kept secret for a reason, the same reason it is so relatively modern-looking compared to other items of power; it is tied to the same Outsider that arranged for Lily's birth not very long ago. What this might mean for its agenda concerning Lily none can say but speculation abounds. Most probably, it is a way to tempt Lily with powers she has not yet developed, give access to them before she develops control on her own...
(mechanically speaking, 1 more refresh and Lily could have sponsored magic without the need for an item of power. But suddenly reaching for that power before she is ready would force her nature over her free will. I.e. spending 1 more refresh on a Change before her refresh increases sends her to negative refresh and makes her a monster)
Focus and Enchanted items
Lily lacks formal training and her Lore skills are what she has gleaned from research or self-experimentation. Her focuses tend to be simplistic at best. She has one bracelet of +2 offensive spirit control and one bracelet of +2 offensive spirit power.
Evocation
Lily has evocation ability she can use like many mortal practicioners (even though she isn't one). Her elements are spirit, darkness (subtractive fire) and void (subtractive air). She specialises in spirit, getting +1 control.

ASPECTS
Cute Eldritch Horror: Lily is a cute young woman that also happens to be a still growing physical manifestation of some force beyond our world. (High Concept)
Invoke: Wheedling, summoning boys, getting people to like her, using or resisting dark or mental powers, including her own.
Compel: Being taken seriously, intimidating (not), avoiding boys, avoiding or resisting faith and warding magic.
Unearthly yet Clueless: Lily strikes anyone with some arcane sense as not-human. Dark powers might even treat her as demon. At the same time she is almost completely ignorant of the nature of the supernatural world and its workings.
Invoke: Ignoring intimidation, being buddies with dark creatures, asking forgiveness but not permission, making Sight users insane. (not always good things)
Compel: not knowing what (not) to do, trusting, lore, avoiding supernatural senses, making Sight users insane
Aunt's House in the Woods: Lily lived the majority of her admittedly short life in her aunt's house at the Great Smoky Mountains, Tenesee, well away from the "corruption" of modern life, learning the benefits of healthy living, hard work and little things in life. She's way more healthy physically and mentally than most city dwellers but does not go well with most modern appliances either. She still has said house to remember her aunt by.
Invoke: strength and endurance, determination, survival, resisting temptation
Compel: using modern appliances, urban navigation, fitting in, seizing the moment
Out of the Circle, Into the Fire: Lily registers as a demon to certain magics. She often attracts the attention of summoners and dark creatures, and they sometimes try to ask for favors or make pacts with her. And while her considerable abilities would allow her to fulfill many of these favors, Lily insists she is not a demon. Hilarity invaiably ensues.
Invoke: influencing or making deals with summoners, warlocks and creatures interested in demonic power.
Compel: spurned warlocks, curious 'real' demons and alarmed champions of faith causing trouble. They're funny like that.
Cloak of Trouble: Lily wears this cool-looking, occasionally glowing heavy black coat with the strange runes on the inside. Keeping it to remember her aunt by and prevent it from being used for evil purposes, she occasionally draws power from it while trying to help. It (allegedly) belongs to her after all.
Invoke: Using it as an item of power, protective clothing, looking cool.
Compel: Debts from its use, blending in.
Good Intentions, Paved Roads: Lily wants to help. She always wants to do the right thing. Unfortunately, she is often impulsive and doesn't think before she acts.
Invoke: convincing people she wants to help, resisting temptation
Compel: not thinking things through, convincing people she is competent
Not On My Watch!: After several altercations and a showdown with power-hungry wizards, she hates their power-grabbing guts. She will oppose their plans on sheer principle. She finds non-human supernaturals more honest (even when evil) and has some trouble trusting the good human wizards out there.
Invoke: fighting mortal black magic, seeing through wizard deception
Compel: not trusting the white council, believing supernaturals



Background: Where did you come from?
Genetics are overrated; biological ancestry might make you what you are but real parents will make you who you are. Or that is what Lily's aunt Amaya always said. A herbalist in her golden years that had retreated in the less civilized parts of Tenessee and taken up farming of all things, she raised up Lily to believe in hard work, healthy living and helping others. Lily's parents were never discussed; at an early age Lily realised that was a sore subject for her beloved Auntie A. and did not bring it up. After all, nobody had come looking for her in all those years and the old woman had the burden of raising her so late in life. Either her parents were dead -and if they were, reminding Auntie A of her lost sister was a no no- or worse, they did not care. And the old woman loved her; why mess up a good thing? Six years learning why people needed help at Auntie A's side as she dispensed herbs and advice to other country houses, ten years doing her best to make the burden of farm work lighter. All in all, sixteen years well spent. Who needed more?
Phase Aspect: Aunt's House in the Woods.


Rising Conflict: What shaped you?
The past catches up to you. Especially if it is ugly and you're running from it. Lily's quiet life in the woods ended only days short of her sixteenth birthday when one cold winter night she got out the front door to check the water pipes for freezing and somehow found herself standing in an even colder basement, in the middle of a circle of chalk and candles and with a crazy robed man claiming she were a demon and he had summoned her. The man was short, thin and hungry-looking under his robes and Lily felt pity for him, despite his maniacal demands to do his bidding and smite his enemies with the "nightmares from beyond". But things got infinitely worse when Auntie A. appeared, dressed in an even wierder, seamless black coat with long sleeves and a hood and a murderous expression on her face. Her aunt was an aging woman and until that night Lily would never describe her as scary. And just like that, the scrawny, pathetic man transformed upon seeing her, from someone Lily pitied to something terrible. Words were exchanged between them-they knew eachother. And when words did not suffice, bolts of flame and darkness right out of a nightmare or her aunt's horror stories told by the fire when she was a little girl. The cold basement was ruined, broken, but they still fought until part of the roof collapsed and fell on Auntie A. Lily's mind went numb. She ran out of the circle, not even registering the unseen pressure that tried but failed to bar her passage. She barely heard the man's chant and the second attempt to contain her. And she didn't see her clawed hands that tore the man apart and threw his pieces into the roaring fire.
When the shock had passed days later, she found herself in the woods, before a small mound of rocks and soil six feet long and half as wide, the charred remains of her clothing still clinging to her body. The only thing left of Auntie A was her strange coat, as unscathed by the ordeal as Lily's skin.
Phase Aspect: Out of the Circle, Into the Fire


The Story: What was your first adventure?
Her aunt's sacrifice so she could live shamed Lily but what really haunted her was her own transformation. And while her shame almost stopped her, in the end she had to know. Searching her aunt's things and diaries yielded some facts: her aunt became a farmer to escape something. The heavy coat was magic and it belonged to Lily's unknown mother and now to Lily herself. And Lily? Auntie A knew of her powers -though her diaries gave no details- and she had taken her along to "protect her soul". Following the scant clues, with several hard-to-read diaries in one hand and a magic coat on the other, Lily left the Great Smoky Mountains behind and headed for Virginia. On the way she experimented and learned to manipulate her innate abilities to enhance her physical self but it was not until she encountered yet another robed man that she learned what the coat did -besides keeping her warm and cosy- and why they wanted it; it offered magic, power. The man retreated then but days later she was assaulted in her motel room and for the first time drew from that power to defend herself. The warlock -for that's what he had been- she forced in retreat. The motel she did not manage to save as her frantic attempts drew far too much power for her to control; she learned of the price of power and what evil or ignorant people could do with it. Lily decided to keep it out of their hands and, if she could manage it, put it to good use.
Phase Aspect:Coat of Trouble


Guest Starring...
When a dark cabal sacrificing supernatural creatures to drain their power is uncovered in Virginia, Lily Young interferes and attempts to help the captives. But what happens when Lily plays right into a warlock's grasp and foils another rescuer's plans?
Phase Aspect: Good Intentions, Paved Roads


Guest Starring Redux
When Lily follows the tracks left by a powerful warlock back to the city of London, she stumbles into an entire cabal of dark mages... and the wizards that try to stop them. But will Lily cooperate with the White Council to put an end to that threat or will her mistrust of wizards give victory to the warlocks?
Phase Aspect: Not On My Watch!


SKILLS
Superb (+5)  Conviction, Discipline
Great (+4)    Might, Athletics
Good (+3)    Fists, Endurance
Fair (+2)      Rapport, Alertness, Lore
Average (+1) Survival, Crafting, Presence, Empathy, Resources

STUNS & POWERS

[-1] Item of Power (sponsored magic, one-time discount)
[+0] Unnatural Constitution (as per wizard's)
[-3] Evocation
[+1] Average Jane
[-6] Modular Ability (form follows function catch is wounds from holy objects, stacked with warding magic for immunity)
Total Refresh Adjustment: -9

A power she occasionally uses via modular abilities:
Quote
Tentacles [-2]
Non-Eukleidian tentacle-like appendages extend from you to lash and rip nearby creatures. You may use might to attack or grapple every creature in the zone except for yourself. You don't have enough control to distinguish between friends and allies.
Special: Any bonuses and powers to using might does apply to the tentacles.


Lily works as a jack of all trades. Usually magic for offense, powers for defense, senses and various tricks.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Crion on June 28, 2010, 01:54:09 PM
@Belial666: That kind of Scion seems like it'd be a fun way to go. Then again, I've always like the unknown, the horrors of Lovecraft, and the idea of being split between two worlds (thus why I enjoy Scions). I don't know how well all of it goes into balance (I'm waiting for my books so I have an easier way to read things besides pdf files and a copy in a binder), but the concept itself looks interesting.
Personally, I'd have it scaled down even lower and RP the "evolution" of things, so to speak. But again, that's just my sick, twisted approach to gaming ^_^;
And if you could, think you could elaborate a bit more on the Evocations? I like how it's representing a different flavour than the basic elements and spirit, but I'd like to see a bit more for curiosity's sake.

As for other members of this discussion:

I'm digging the idea of Dragon Scions (always a fun topic in my old D&D sessions, still amusing now), but I'm curious what else is on the table. And for those that mentioned options, what sort of powers are you putting to them?

And as a personal note: How would you "stat" a Black Court Scion (aka: Dhampir)? Would they just be Red Court infected (with a Hunger track, sans the saliva and tattoos), or do you have a better approach?

I figure at the very least, most Dhampir would have some of the Inhuman physical powers to at least give them a chance to hunt blampires, as per the legends. I was also thinking to give them some equivalent of The Sight (or a very specific Lore stunt) to allow them to detect/see Vampires for what they are, regardless of Veils or flesh masks (If anything, I'd make this a required thing, much like the Changeling powers). I'd also allow Ritual (and possibly Thaumaturgy) as fitting options, with Channeling/Evocation as plausible. I can see a character growing into most of these powers (among others), but I'm curious if anyone else has another take.

So, vesides the idea of manifesting some VERY powerful Black Court powers (such as the legendary "turn to mist", beast forms, and mental domination), am I overlooking anything?

Note: I've had the argument in the past that the Dhampir of legend were just the equivalent of a very knowledgeable human who could perceive vampires; since the setting has vampires stronger than those of Balkan myth, it's only fair that their offspring be tougher as well.


Anyway, anyone else have some extra options and feedback?

--Crion
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: DFJunkie on June 28, 2010, 02:15:38 PM
Quote
And as a personal note: How would you "stat" a Black Court Scion (aka: Dhampir)?

How would they ever come into existance in the first place?  Blampires are dead.  Squick factor aside, I'd think they'd be incapable of sexual procreation.

Now, I can imagine some sort of ritual, ala Buffy, to essentially steal some of the power from a Blampire's demon and infuse it into a mortal, for later use against other members of the black court.  You could treat them like Scions in that the powers are heritable and similar to their supernatural "sire."
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Crion on June 28, 2010, 02:25:26 PM
How would they ever come into existance in the first place?  Blampires are dead.  Squick factor aside, I'd think they'd be incapable of sexual procreation.

Now, I can imagine some sort of ritual, ala Buffy, to essentially steal some of the power from a Blampire's demon and infuse it into a mortal, for later use against other members of the black court.  You could treat them like Scions in that the powers are heritable and similar to their supernatural "sire."

I'm actually tossing it out there as per a request from an old Mage ST of mine, as this was something he was curious about when I offered the Dresden RPG as an option for a game. That, and I just like my folklore ^^;

Methods of (pro)creation aside (as there can be any number of approaches, from the plethora of options by ritual, a bloodline "curse," the film version of Blade, or even the reference within traditional folklore where they go through the deed immediately after the change), I'm curious what some people would do with this option when it comes to game mechanics.

So, anyone have an opinion or approach? And any other Scions hitting the table? If so, how did they work out, and what sort of options were open to them?
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Belial666 on June 28, 2010, 02:34:56 PM
Lily starts out submerged, like a strong wizard (i.e. Harry) or Knight of the Cross, with only a fraction of her potential realized. Through her adventures she's expected to grow up to be stronger. Harry for example doubled his refresh worth of powers over ten books (not counting Changes or Turn Coat) and still has more than ten books still to go.


Most of the magic we have seen this far is to make something out of nothing by giving energy (evocation) or make something bigger out of something smaller but related (thaumaturgy). That's the idea behind additive magic, one of several types of magic conceptually possible.
Lily's magic is subtractive, which is the opposite; to make nothing out of something, or reduce something big into something smaller. Everything Lily does with magic should diminish an object, a force or an idea. Examples follow;

To move something with air, a normal wizard creates a strong current to push the target. Lily would excise the air from behind the target or diminish the pressure of that air, creating a vacuum that would pull the target.
To kill something with Fire, a normal wizard would put additional energy into heat to burn it. Lily would drain the heat instead and freeze it to death or drain the heat into another form of energy-say, kinetic or chemical-to make the target explode with its own energy.
To counter a spell, a wizard would try to dispel it, unraveling the magic with his own power. Lily would diminish the force of the spell until it faded.
To travel through the Ways, a wizard would push with enough energy to part the Veil and create a Gateway. Lily would drain energy from the Veil until it weakened and parted into a Gateway.
To create a mental suggestion, a wizard would enhance the ideas and emotions that worked towards it. Lily would diminish ideas and emotions that opposed it.


That's how it works.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Deadmanwalking on June 28, 2010, 04:07:37 PM
Procreation mechanics aside (I like the idea that, like corpses are in theory, the Black Court are fertile for a few days) I think Dhampirs would have the following abilities at base:

Strange Senses: Vampire Detection [-1]
Wizard's Constitution [+0]

And could acquire these if they so desired:

Inhuman Strength [-2]
Inhuman Speed [-2]
Inhuman Toughness [-2]
The Catch is Unknown [+0]

It's actually not necessary for them to be inhumanly physically potent to take Black Court down, knowing their Catch makes them a hell of a lot less scary, but they make sense to have and would be fun for the player, so why not?

I really don't think they should get any other powers as part of being a Dhampir, but they could definitely have powers from other sources humans can get it from, suc as being a Wizard or Were-creature.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Crion on June 28, 2010, 04:43:08 PM
@Belial666: Interest approaches overall. So instead of the idea of net positive energy, it is more to the idea of a negative energy approach?
Either way, still fitting, still interesting, so thank you for tossing that out there.

@Deadmanwalking
Procreation mechanics aside (I like the idea that, like corpses are in theory, the Black Court are fertile for a few days) I think Dhampirs would have the following abilities at base:

Strange Senses: Vampire Detection [-1]
Wizard's Constitution [+0]

And could acquire these if they so desired:

Inhuman Strength [-2]
Inhuman Speed [-2]
Inhuman Toughness [-2]
The Catch is Unknown [+0]

It's actually not necessary for them to be inhumanly physically potent to take Black Court down, knowing their Catch makes them a hell of a lot less scary, but they make sense to have and would be fun for the player, so why not?

I really don't think they should get any other powers as part of being a Dhampir, but they could definitely have powers from other sources humans can get it from, suc as being a Wizard or Were-creature.

Do you think they should have a non-existant catch, or do you think it would be extremes of what repels a blampire? Would they even have something that could act as a Catch, determined at character creation (such as one item from the blampire list, or something entirely different but still fitting)? Again, just kicking around ideas.
And yes, while it may not be necessary for them to be inhumanly potent, it is still fitting for the theme and would be fun for a player.

Speaking of these inhuman powers, do you believe they would use a Hunger track of sorts, like a Red Court Infected? Speaking of, how would a Red Court Infected clear their track? I don't remember seeing it written in the RPG, and we have seen it "cleared" enough to function twice in the series: once with some blood drinking (but not enough to cause harm) and once in a rather. . .interesting scene between Harry and Susan.

As for other, non-wizarding powers, I can see some of them coming into play if the Dhampir became more like their parents after an extended existence, but that seems to be more NPC fodder or a higher-level game.

Again, just kicking around ideas, don't mind me.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Deadmanwalking on June 28, 2010, 04:54:46 PM
Do you think they should have a non-existant catch, or do you think it would be extremes of what repels a blampire? Would they even have something that could act as a Catch, determined at character creation (such as one item from the blampire list, or something entirely different but still fitting)? Again, just kicking around ideas.

I...don't think that having one of their parent's Catches feels right. They have just enough of their parent's powers to be dangerous to them, but they aren't the same order of being. Almost more of a cosmic defense mechanism or curse against them than real Scions. For that very reason, I considered having "Any Attack By Mortals" as their Catch and upping their Toughness or adding Recovery, but that felt like too much, especially with the whole thing with Renfields and whether they'd count or not.

And yes, while it may not be necessary for them to be inhumanly potent, it is still fitting for the theme and would be fun for a player.

Yeah, I'm all for letting players have their fun.  :)

Speaking of these inhuman powers, do you believe they would use a Hunger track of sorts, like a Red Court Infected? Speaking of, how would a Red Court Infected clear their track? I don't remember seeing it written in the RPG, and we have seen it "cleared" enough to function twice in the series: once with some blood drinking (but not enough to cause harm) and once in a rather. . .interesting scene between Harry and Susan.

Re-read the Feeding Rules, even one scene of non-lethal feeding gets rid of all Hunger Consequences, and one Stress Box. You only need to kill to reduce Stress completely. Obviously, Red Court Infected usually go for Consequences in terms of Hunger.

As for other, non-wizarding powers, I can see some of them coming into play if the Dhampir became more like their parents after an extended existence, but that seems to be more NPC fodder or a higher-level game.

This too feels wrong, for the reasons listed above. It seems to me that Dhampirs shouldn't so much be "half-vampires" in the way that the Red Court are, but instead a legitimate thing of their own, a scourge on the Black Court (pun intended) from some ancient curse or some such. Their ability to sense vampires is what really makes me feel that way, I mean, that just makes so much more sense that way.

Again, just kicking around ideas, don't mind me.

Hey, me too.  :) What else is this thread for?
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: CMEast on June 28, 2010, 06:17:00 PM
I...don't think that having one of their parent's Catches feels right. They have just enough of their parent's powers to be dangerous to them, but they aren't the same order of being. Almost more of a cosmic defense mechanism or curse against them than real Scions. For that very reason, I considered having "Any Attack By Mortals" as their Catch and upping their Toughness or adding Recovery, but that felt like too much, especially with the whole thing with Renfields and whether they'd count or not.

Hmm, that'd be interesting. Rather than Dhampir having powers of their own, they just satisfy a catch for all BCV powers and are immune to them, sort of like BCV kryptonite. I'd argue that this would be a 1 or perhaps 2 refresh power only as they have no control over it's use and it is very specific.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Crion on June 28, 2010, 06:46:47 PM
Hmm, that'd be interesting. Rather than Dhampir having powers of their own, they just satisfy a catch for all BCV powers and are immune to them, sort of like BCV kryptonite. I'd argue that this would be a 1 or perhaps 2 refresh power only as they have no control over it's use and it is very specific.

Actually, something like this is rather fitting from the folklore perspective, as there are legends of Dhampir just walking into a village that was plagued by a vampire, spots the vampire with just a glance, fires one bullet and presumed it dead after hearing a death scream from an unseeable source and a bloodspot on the ground. Just not entirely sure if it would be too game breaking, ya know?

I just thought of the "powers of their own" as they are still half human, after all, and if there can be vampire wizards/sorcerers, why not their children as well?



And Deadmanwalking. . .I'll get back to you in a bit. Need to finish something here at work, and then I can devote some attention to more ideas being kicked around. Thanks as always for the input; I'm looking forward to another interesting thread here with you.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Fedifensor on June 29, 2010, 04:30:22 AM
Well we don't really know enough about Dresdenverse Dragons to be sure, but I'd say things like Breath Weapon (obviously), Supernatural Toughness (scaly armoured skin), Supernatural Strength, Human Guise (Ferrovax doesn't always look like a giant winged dinosaur), and quite possibly spellcasting would all be valid options for half-Dragons.

To be honest though, given how powerful WoJ has implied True Dragons to be half-dragons might well not fit into Submerged unless they were really weak examples.
My wife is working on a "dragon-blooded" emissary of power.  We've left it deliberately vague as to whether she is a half-dragon, a mortal child that was fed dragon blood in a ritual to imbue her with power, or something else.  However, whichever choice we go with, those responsible were members of the dragon cult that followed Siriothrax (the dragon Michael killed).  Either way, the character starts at Submerged power level, and has the potential to be earth-shakingly powerful...with the caveat that it may take a thousand years for her to fully grow into her draconic heritage.

Here's the powers we came up with:
(-1) Marked by Power (Dragon-Blooded) - Though the character does not (to her knowledge) have a patron, she has been marked by the blood of a true dragon, which shows up when she is viewed with the Sight.
(-2) Inhuman Strength
(-2) Inhuman Recovery*
(-2) Inhuman Toughness*
(-6) Mythic Toughness (special) - The character is highly resistant to fire, but not quite immune.  This is an exception to the normal rules for Stacked Catch, allowed because the character plans to upgrade to Physical Immunity after a few Major Milestones.  For now, the character has Armor: 3 versus fire/heat/smoke, and four extra stress boxes that only apply versus fire.
 (+5) Stacked Catch: Only versus fire/heat/smoke, easy to come by, uncovered by research

* Catch (+0): Dragonbane items (Swords of the Cross, etc)

Future upgrades include the Physical Immunity to fire mentioned above, and more physical manifestations of draconic power (dragon breath, wings, etc).  Once these start manifesting, her form will begin to change, and she will need to take Beast Change or Human Guise to continue to interact with mortals.  Spellcasting would be a LONG way away, unless she found a patron for sponsored magic.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: wyvern on June 29, 2010, 05:16:14 PM
Another interesting notion is a child of an elemental force - for example, a child of a salamander might have:

(-2) Immune to Fire (that's a physical immunity with a +6 stacked catch, since it only protects against fire & fire byproducts like smoke inhalation, not-fire is easy to come by, and it's pretty obvious that the character is immune.)
(-4) Supernatural Recovery: It's not particularly hard to hurt a salamander - but, like a fire re-kindling from a few embers, making a salamander *stay* hurt is a rather trickier proposition.
(+3) Catch: Water magic or truly extreme cold.  Mere mundane water is insufficient to snuff out the fire of a salamander - but proper application of, say, liquid nitrogen, is pretty effective.  (In terms of stats, this is two catches: water magic is hard to get, but trivial to figure out that it'd work, while extreme cold is something anyone can get - albeit with some effort - but also isn't necessarily quite as obvious that it'd work.  You only get the rebate for the strongest catch; in this case, they're both +3, so that's the value.)
(-2) Inhuman Speed: fire is fast.
(-2) Breath Weapon: representing the character's ability to casually call up small amounts of fire.
(-2) Channeling: representing the character's ability to call up (or put out) *large* amounts of fire, albeit with some effort.

Of course, that cost structure relies on it being obvious that the character has salamander lineage (otherwise at least one catch value would go down by one), so you'll also need human guise or human form.  (Or maybe just a really good trenchcoat / hat / sunglasses combo?)  That could be as simple as an enchanted amulet (tying a -0 human guise to a +0 item of power), or it could be a natural shapeshifting ability where the character has access to both a human and a salamander form - perhaps modeled as a human form (+1) tied to channeling & inhuman speed.

For added fun, have that character work as a fireman.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Crion on June 30, 2010, 02:58:29 PM
Interesting ideas going on here again.

@wyvern: Is the Salamander the only one you've worked on so far? I can see other options coming to play with a similar design scheme. I could also see this going in two other ways: starting off with weaker powers and eventually picking up the bigger guns as you "mature," or having most of those powers under another form, or even some combination thereof.
Heh. . .ideas ^_^

@Fedifensor: How has the dragon scion been in game, if you've tested it yet? And when you say Dragonbane weapons, I assume there are a few random relics capable of such things in your game? Swords of the Cross fulfill the Catch on just about everything, so relying on just those would be rather daunting.


@Deadmanwalking: Sorry about taking so long to get back to this. It's been a busy week. . .but let's see what I can do.
When it comes to the Catch of a Dhampir, I'm at a loss. Attacks by mortals would be just plain nasty, especially with how plentiful they are and how easy they would be acquired by a Blampire (simple dominate, even without the Renfields, would be more than enough). Attacks by magic could be a fitting Catch, but then any Blampire with magic has a way to squash this threat with relative ease.
I could do something with Balkan/Gypsy blessings/curses/etc, but that might be hard to come across in the "New World."
Or, again, just design a catch at character creation, or have a Catch that the player knows exists but doesn't know what until that appropriately dramatic moment. . .

I've also considered the idea of Dhampir being their own catch to a Blampire's toughness as a 2 point power, but I'm not entirely sure how balanced that would be. Any thoughts on that?

Now, when it comes to their powers: do you think they should have a feeding dependency (to add some degree of inhuman threat to their powers), and do you think any Inhuman Power should be linked directly to the Hunger track? I'm just seeing this as the idea behind the White Court Virgins who will suddenly manifest a power and have the Hunger come following in right behind it. Not always a requirement to have those powers, but still possible to do so. . .at a cost (i.e. humanity).

Any other thoughts there?




And anyone else have another scion to share, or another thought in general to add to the mix?
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Deadmanwalking on June 30, 2010, 03:26:05 PM
@Deadmanwalking: Sorry about taking so long to get back to this. It's been a busy week. . .but let's see what I can do.
When it comes to the Catch of a Dhampir, I'm at a loss. Attacks by mortals would be just plain nasty, especially with how plentiful they are and how easy they would be acquired by a Blampire (simple dominate, even without the Renfields, would be more than enough). Attacks by magic could be a fitting Catch, but then any Blampire with magic has a way to squash this threat with relative ease.
I could do something with Balkan/Gypsy blessings/curses/etc, but that might be hard to come across in the "New World."
Or, again, just design a catch at character creation, or have a Catch that the player knows exists but doesn't know what until that appropriately dramatic moment. . .

Honestly, I'd just go with a +0 Catch...the kind that explicitly never need to come up. Maybe they're vulnerable to something conceptually opposed to their vamiric parent's weaknesses? Unholy Stuff is actually a perfectly valid Catch...

I've also considered the idea of Dhampir being their own catch to a Blampire's toughness as a 2 point power, but I'm not entirely sure how balanced that would be. Any thoughts on that?

One point at most, I mean look at Righteousness. But honestly, I'd go with it as a -0 power, it's extremely situational, and having, say, iron claws wouldn't cost any more than the normal Claws cost, and that satisfies a Faerie's catch. Having the ability to do it with anything might be worth -1, I guess, but probably not.

Now, when it comes to their powers: do you think they should have a feeding dependency (to add some degree of inhuman threat to their powers), and do you think any Inhuman Power should be linked directly to the Hunger track? I'm just seeing this as the idea behind the White Court Virgins who will suddenly manifest a power and have the Hunger come following in right behind it. Not always a requirement to have those powers, but still possible to do so. . .at a cost (i.e. humanity).

Any other thoughts there?

I don't think so, but then my view of Dhampirs may or may not be how you want to do them. It'd involve things like Compels to make them run into and feel the need to kill the Black Court. Even in the middle of dealing with other foes, their nature would just be so inherently inimical to the Black Court that it'd come up.

If you really want to aim for the 'vaguely inhuman half-vampire' thing, yeah Feeding Dependency is good, but honestly I think Red court Infected have that one covered.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Crion on June 30, 2010, 04:52:20 PM
Honestly, I'd just go with a +0 Catch...the kind that explicitly never need to come up. Maybe they're vulnerable to something conceptually opposed to their vamiric parent's weaknesses? Unholy Stuff is actually a perfectly valid Catch...

I can see Unholy being a Catch for things that are Holy, but for an entity that is half dead-ish, a part of me can't see it being an overall thing. But again, I can see some random, epic moment where someone learns of an Achille's Heel for the Dhampir, and things go from there.
I like the idea if you never guessed :-p

One point at most, I mean look at Righteousness. But honestly, I'd go with it as a -0 power, it's extremely situational, and having, say, iron claws wouldn't cost any more than the normal Claws cost, and that satisfies a Faerie's catch. Having the ability to do it with anything might be worth -1, I guess, but probably not.

I was only thinking of the 2 pointer due to it being the Blampire Catch when they use anything. Again, following the myth I mentioned where the Dhampir just fired a single shot and did the equivalent of bypassing everything. But you are right in that it is extremely situational to be the Catch for just Blampires, so you think it should just be a -1 Refresh for that, bringing the minimum Refresh to -2 (-1 Vampire Sense, -1 "Vampire Slayer")?

I don't think so, but then my view of Dhampirs may or may not be how you want to do them. It'd involve things like Compels to make them run into and feel the need to kill the Black Court. Even in the middle of dealing with other foes, their nature would just be so inherently inimical to the Black Court that it'd come up.

If you really want to aim for the 'vaguely inhuman half-vampire' thing, yeah Feeding Dependency is good, but honestly I think Red court Infected have that one covered.

Honestly, I was going to Compel the high concept to bring Blampires to their doorstep, give them the need to jump into a nest to wipe them out, act impulsively on rumors, and even have them target the Blampire over all other foes (even if something was a bigger threat). But at the same time, I know that they aren't entirely human, and we all know that blood is power in the Dresdenverse, so I was thinking the feeding dependency would be fitting.

Again, just my line of thought, especially after seeing Red Court Infected being similar to Dhampir in so many ways.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: ironchicken on June 30, 2010, 05:21:11 PM
We have been playing Fireborn recently in which the PCs are dragon scions discovering their powers. (O.T. The books are quite cheap as PDFs and the GM book has a lot of ideas that are transferable). This is giving my players some thoughts about dragon based Scions. I like the idea of lesser and greater dragons suggested above.

Other thoughts I have had are:

Elemental scions

The Wiccan god and goddess bestowing some form of "force of nature".

Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Fedifensor on June 30, 2010, 11:04:56 PM
@Fedifensor: How has the dragon scion been in game, if you've tested it yet? And when you say Dragonbane weapons, I assume there are a few random relics capable of such things in your game? Swords of the Cross fulfill the Catch on just about everything, so relying on just those would be rather daunting
Dragonbane is a catch-all category for anything I come up with to bypass a dragon's defenses.  Things that would fulfill the Catch have probably been a high priority for dragons to destroy, which is why the few remaining aren't going to be something to discover with a bit of research.  I was actually considering using an plant nicknamed Dragonbane which could be applied to a weapon like a contact poison (if you've read Joel Rosenberg's Guardians of the Flame series, that's a good example of what I have in mind).  The plant would be extremely rare...and also wouldn't be enough to bypass Ferrovax's defenses*. 

I haven't tested the dragon scion in play yet...heck, I'm still trying to get all the players together for city creation and character creation.  I'll post here once I have a chance to see the character in play.

* However, it might give him a rash.  :)
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Crion on July 14, 2010, 08:47:33 PM
So I'm doing a bit of thread necromancy here to see if anyone else has any new ideas, or if those that have posted their ideas (the Edlritch Horror, the Dragon Scions, etc) have had any results or amusing stories to share.

Now that I'm getting a potential game rolling, I'd like to see more ideas and may potentially do a few more writeups of my own.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: wyvern on July 14, 2010, 09:12:02 PM
I haven't gotten to the point of having any examples of actual gameplay, but I can go ahead and post the other elemental scion character I've built stats for.  I don't think I'm actually going to end up using him for anything, sadly.  Too much of a PC to put into the game I'm running, and I went with a different concept for the game I'm playing in.  I suppose I could probably find a pbp game to use him in?  I might do that.

Name: Jake Turner
High Concept: Unwitting Heir to the Grey Wind
Jake's father blew into town on the eve of one of the most destructive storms in local history - and vanished from his mother's life just as quickly, leaving behind no indication that the resulting child would be anything particularly special.  Jake was unaware of his potential for most of his lifespan, and still doesn't know where his power comes from, or what strings might be attached.
Trouble: What you don't know can hurt you
Jake doesn't know much about supernatural affairs - and what he does "know" is just as often wrong.  This aspect is likely to get changed during play as he buys up his lore skill.

Other aspects:
Jake had (what he thinks of as) a comparatively normal childhood, raised by a single mother in the bad part of Lincoln, Nebraska (though anywhere in tornado alley could be substituted).  He learned early that There's No Such Thing as a Free Lunch - anyone who comes bearing gifts wants something from you, and if they won't tell you what, the price is certainly higher than you want to pay.

He had trouble getting through school - partly due to various gangs and other external factors, but also partly due to his own flightyness - essentially ADD.  While he never got an official diagnosis, the school councilor did suggest he take up martial arts training (which he paid for with a part time job delivering pizza); the extra discipline he learned from that let him pull his grades up far enough to get into college.  (And, as a college student, he could end up in a game in just about any major city in the US.)

Unfortunately, even with a few small scholarships, he still had to take up a side job, and seek out the very cheapest apartment he could find - ending up living in the worst part of InsertSomeAlreadyPrettyBadLocationHere.  Even with all that, he's still Scraping To Make Ends Meet, picking up extra odd jobs where and when he can, living mostly off ramen noodles and other forms of ultra-cheap food, etc - and always with the looming specter of student loans that he'll have to start paying off once he's out of college.

The job he ended up with (armed with a letter of introduction from his martial arts instructor) is doing deliveries for a small chinese restaurant - mostly food to relatively normal people, but also the occasional odd package to someone perhaps less normal.  The proprietor, a wizened old man named Tann Zi-Lung, is almost certainly at least a clued-in mortal.

First adventure phase is still a bit sketchy; I'm thinking Jake kinda eased into shapeshifting, starting with vivid "dreams" of flying, and maybe running into trouble with some vampire hunters investigating rumors of a "giant bat" in the area - not to mention actual local vampires who are... displeased... with the additional scrutiny this new shapeshifter has brought too close to their home.

Skills:
+5: Athletics
+4: Alertness
+3: Conviction, Discipline, Fists
+2: Might, Empathy, Contacts, Rapport, Stealth
+1: Scholarship, Presence, Endurance, Investigation, Intimidation, Deceit, Lore

Powers:

Inhuman Speed (-2)

Inhuman Recovery (-2)
The Catch (+3) is anything grounded.  That can be literally grounded (a guy with a wire running from his sword handle down to the earth), magically grounded (the fists of an earth elemental, or a spirit attack designed to drain energy into the earth), or even symbolically grounded (a spear forged out of a lightning rod).

The Wind Holds No Secrets (-1): this is a supernatural sense; the ability to simply know things like which way the wind is blowing, where all the nasty downdrafts and vortices are in a storm, etc.  Jake doesn't (yet) have this sense tuned well enough to pinpoint someone's location by where the air isn't (though this might still justify diving for cover when an invisible assailant starts moving), or to tell the difference between a cloud of steam versus a cloud of shapeshifted vampire (at least until that vampire does something totally out of character for a natural mist, like move against the wind).

Fingers of the Wind (-0): This is the mundane effects trapping of Channeling (Air) (see YS259) - enough power to do something that's identifiably magic, but not enough to make any sort of difference in a fight.  Jake will probably be upgrading this to a full Channeling power (or sponsored magic?) when he's got the refresh available.  In the meantime, it makes for a fairly crummy light source (via repeated electrical sparks), an effective method of flipping light switches from across the room, and a good excuse for being able to pick up and use items normally even if Jake is temporarily sans opposable thumbs.

Human Form (+1): Jake also has access to the natural form of his father; this is could be described as a mottled grey-scaled wyvern (sans tail stinger), or a cross between a pterodactyl and a velociraptor, or even as an archaeopteryx that happens to have leathery wings instead of feathers.  The human form limitation applies to the following powers:
Supernatural Speed (-2): the total cost of supernatural speed is -4, but upgrading inhuman (which he's normally got) to supernatural is only an extra -2.
Inhuman Toughness (-2): the same catch as inhuman recovery.
Wings (-1) - a good four foot wingspan; big for something that flies, but there are natural flying critters that are up to about twice the size.  (See, for example, California Condor.)
Claws (-1) and teeth.  Lots of teeth.
Diminutive Size (-1) - the wyvern form is a solid ten pounds - an order of magnitude more bulk than any natural flyer of similar wingspan, but still pretty tiny compared to a human.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Cowboy on July 15, 2010, 05:30:41 AM
I was thinking that Scions of Neil Gaimon's Endless would be pretty cool. Destiny, Death, Destruction, Dream, Desire, Despair, Delusion. I seem to recall that Orpheus was the son of Dream, so perhaps there could be a lineage through him. I might be wrong as it's been ages since I read any Sandman.
I could see a scion of Morpheus having glamours and illusions, perhaps incite emotion to induce sleepiness or nightmares ( would that work?) or a bag of sand that is used as an item of power or focus item.
Anyhow, I don't really know the system well enough to stat anything, so if anyone else wants to use this, then please have at it  ;D
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: CMEast on July 15, 2010, 11:00:39 AM
Quote
Feet in the water, 6 refresh and 20 skill points.

-----------------Aspects-----------------


High concept: Rebel angel

Trouble: Destined to fight the dark
- He is a gifted angelic warrior, his powers designed to fight evil wherever it may be. Or at least, that's what he will be once he's grown up a bit.

Others:

Not so angelic
-Young and wild, loves to party, has a dark-side

All-American pretty boy
- Blond, blue eyed and athletic; he could be quite popular if he wasn't such an arrogant little so-and-so about it.

Cursed secret
- Whenever he shows his powers to a mortal on purpose, they always seem to end up dead. He's lost two casual girlfriends and a good friend this way (because having wings is too cool not to show off sometimes).



-----------------Powers-----------------

[-2] Inhuman Speed
[-2] Inhuman Recovery

[+1] Human Form - affecting:
[-1]Wings
[-2] upgrade to Supernatural speed
[-2] Inhuman Toughness.
[+3] Catch - holy items.

[-5] Refresh total.

-----------------Skills-----------------

Great: Athletics, Guns
Good: Endurance, Alertness
Fair: Stealth, Deceit
Average: Presence, Resources


-----------------Background-----------------

He is the typical teen-movie jock... or at least he was before he turned 16 and his inheritance kicked in. Now he's on the path to being a dedicated servant of heaven, fighting evil and protecting the innocent; he loves the powers that he's got but he's not so good at handling responsibility and he'd prefers playing hard to working hard. He is a naturally gifted athlete and his ridden on that all through school and he has enjoyed playing with guns, now he has to put these skills to the test in the real world.

As you can see he's a low level character but pretty effective. His speed and wings allow him to avoid taking damage and when he does he can recover quicker too (one of the benefits of a supernaturally high metabolism). His speed also means he can fight on his own terms, staying at a distance to take advantage of his Great skill at guns and further reducing the chance of his opponents hitting him.

What do you think? I wanted to make a good character at feet-in-the-water level which is much harder to do.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: CMEast on July 15, 2010, 11:10:08 AM
Hey, here's a thought! (And one separate, though inspired by, my previous post, so I didn't want to edit it).

Feet-in-the-Fight-Club! It'd be interesting to put some of these characters in a tournament. Give them some tactics (grapple asap or stand back and shoot) and see which characters win the most duels :)
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Crion on July 15, 2010, 02:11:33 PM
@wyvern: Sounds like an interesting concept there with the Scion of an Air Elemental. Some parts of it reminds me of what a friend told me of a book entitled "Ill Wind" by Rachel Caine. It was apparently suggested to him when he mentioned The Dresden Files, but it seems to have more of the teenage love twist tossed in, or perhaps closer to Laurell K. Hamilton. Something to at least look into for the idea of using the winds themselves.

@Cowboy: Gaiman is an epic idea for this kind of game. Scions of the Endless would be an interesting idea, and do open the doors to other options for anyone who has read the series.

@CMEast: Just a question: Would Holy really be the best Catch? Being a Rebel is at least a little bit different from being Fallen, especially if you are more human than Angelic. Just a thought there. And personally, I like "Destined to Fight the Dark" as a Trouble Aspect; makes more stuff capable of knocking on his door to net those Fate points, and you won't be needlessly killing other PCs in the process.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: CMEast on July 15, 2010, 03:06:06 PM
Well I know what you mean Crion, normally we'd automatically assign the catch as unholy power and he certainly isn't a fallen angel. However if you think about it, it doesn't really make sense. If you are a holy warrior destined to fight against evil, surely you would be strong against evil? Wouldn't you be extra powerful against the things you are designed to fight?

On the other hand, if my character was attacked by someone wielding holy magic, it would be like a divine chastisement for not being good.

If he were an 'elemental' of holy power then he would be hurt by the opposite element. However if he's a weapon to be used against an element, that element shouldn't do extra damage to him.

Does that make sense?

I think there is logic to both perspectives, but I want him to be a demon-hunting evil-killer. I could have given him physical immunity against just unholy things but I don't think that really fits, if angels could be totally immune to demons then there'd be no demons at all.

Also, thanks for the aspect suggestion, I'll edit it now :)
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Crion on July 15, 2010, 03:25:08 PM
Well I know what you mean Crion, normally we'd automatically assign the catch as unholy power and he certainly isn't a fallen angel. However if you think about it, it doesn't really make sense. If you are a holy warrior destined to fight against evil, surely you would be strong against evil? Wouldn't you be extra powerful against the things you are designed to fight?

On the other hand, if my character was attacked by someone wielding holy magic, it would be like a divine chastisement for not being good.

If he were an 'elemental' of holy power then he would be hurt by the opposite element. However if he's a weapon to be used against an element, that element shouldn't do extra damage to him.

Does that make sense?

I think there is logic to both perspectives, but I want him to be a demon-hunting evil-killer. I could have given him physical immunity against just unholy things but I don't think that really fits, if angels could be totally immune to demons then there'd be no demons at all.

Also, thanks for the aspect suggestion, I'll edit it now :)

Actually, you are correct that it does make sense, and I can appreciate it a bit more in that regard. The concept of Divine Chastisement completely went over my head when I was looking at it, and I can respect the idea, especially if he is out hunting the darker powers (as your new Aspect involves).

So, did you leave two Aspects open for Guest starring scenarios, or just ran out of ideas at the moment? And do you see him potentially advancing into acquiring Soulfire or Hellfire?
Just curious is all.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Ophidimancer on July 15, 2010, 03:39:29 PM
How's this for a kinda Scion of Ishtar?

Name:  Jasim "Jay" Bashir
High Concept: Teenage Reincarnation of an Emissary of Ishtar
I think I want to go with Emissary of Power, but I might just stick to Minor Talent.
Trouble: There's an Ancient Sex Priestess In My Head!!!

Background:  Jasim comes from a Muslim family living in America and, although he was raised in a pretty devout household, he tends to just want to live the American Dream of being a popular high school jock.  As the captain of the soccer team he enjoys the perks of being in the in crowd, despite the fact that he has lost touch with his heritage.  Little does he know that it will bite him in the ass, because both sides of his family are very distantly related to an ancient bloodline of Babylonian priests.  He's lately begun to have disturbingly vivid dreams of ancient times and places.  More embarrassing for him, he's also having wet dreams about men.
Aspect: All-American Muslim Boy

Rising Conflict:  In the middle of his gay crisis, the last thing Jay expects is for a four thousand year old priestess of Ishtar to wake up inside him.  Things get really weird as he starts casting ancient spells unconsciously and some strange woman begins talking to him in his dreams.  He tries to bury the stress of both of these things by being aggressively normal, throwing himself into sports, school, and maintaining his popularity.  The camaraderie he shares with his teammates is a large source of comfort for him.
Aspect: I Just Want To Be Normal

The Story:  Now fully awake, Jay's co-pilot who I have yet to name, has begun to make a nuisance of herself.  She's headstrong, willful, and has magic to boot.  She has the annoying habit of giving Jay unwanted advice and then taking over his body when he doesn't take the advice.  She's kind of a diva in that she was accustomed to being obeyed, had beautiful clothes, beautiful men, and the attention of a goddess.  It's difficult to get these things when you're four thousand years out of date and in the body of a teenage boy, but that doesn't stop her from trying.  This seriously complicates Jay's masculine image and threatens his popularity.  It also sends up mystic red flags that catch the attention of the White Council and shadowy enemies from the high priestess' past.  Jay leans heavily on the support of his best friend and fake girlfriend, Tasha (replaceable name), a tough no-nonsense chick with a cute cheerleader exterior.
Aspect: As a continuation of his Trouble Aspect ... And She's a High Maintenance Bitch.

I don't have a group to play this character with yet, so I'll leave the last two Aspects for later.

Skills
Great: Athletics,
Good: Endurance, Presence,
Fair: Rapport, Alertness,
Average: Fists, Driving, Deceit, Contacts, Empathy, Conviction

Powers (6 Refresh)
Wizard's Constitution (-0), Evocation (-3)

Human Form* (+1), Involuntary Change (+1)
*Beast change (-1)
*Sponsored Magic (-3)

Specializations
Evocation: Spirit (control +1), Air, Water

Item Slots
Lion Ring (+2 Power, Spirit)
Star of Ishtar Pendant (+2 Control, Spirit)

Final Refresh: 1

And his alter ego is a high priestess of the ancient Babylonian Goddess, Ishtar, name Ameena.

Skills
Great: Lore,
Good: Conviction, Discipline,
Fair: Rapport, Empathy, Presence
Average: Weapons, Deceit, Intimidation

Rotes
I'll need some time to work out the mechanics, but probably a spell to stick some sort of Glorious Radiance Aspect to herself, a stun spell in the form of a mental Grapple, a personal armor spell, and maybe a mass emotional disinhibitor spell.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: CMEast on July 15, 2010, 04:12:50 PM
Actually, you are correct that it does make sense, and I can appreciate it a bit more in that regard. The concept of Divine Chastisement completely went over my head when I was looking at it, and I can respect the idea, especially if he is out hunting the darker powers (as your new Aspect involves).

So, did you leave two Aspects open for Guest starring scenarios, or just ran out of ideas at the moment? And do you see him potentially advancing into acquiring Soulfire or Hellfire?
Just curious is all.

Yeah thank you :) It's one of the reasons why I made him the rebellious party boy instead of some sort of pure paladin type, I'd be playing him as chaotic neutral (if we had alignment in this game).

For other aspects, I wanted to leave it open so I could tie his motivation to play in with the party. I figured I could do something with his family or friends, perhaps have one of the factions hurt or kidnap someone he cares about. Alternatively I could make him related to, admire, or simply be attracted to one of the other PCs. Finally I also wanted him to get in to mischief of some sort; a party gone wrong, breaking and entering for a prank, something like that; and I wanted to tie it in with another PC too. Perhaps he was even on the wrong side in a confrontation.

As to what powers he might develop, I thought he could eventually develop a soulfire breath weapon that comes out of his hands, using guns instead of weapons for the attack roll. Also a supernatural sense and perhaps psychometry or the sight, something to help him track down evil. Otherwise just bumping his speed and toughness up is nice :)
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: CMEast on July 17, 2010, 09:40:18 AM
Here is another one. I hadn't realised the similarities to Dexter until later so I thought hey, why not just pinch the name? :)

Quote
Chest-deep, 8 Refresh, 30 skill points.
Name: Dexter Dyson
Template: Scion (Air elemental)

------------Aspects-----------

High-concept: Vigilante Air Elemental
Trouble: Can't kill the memories.

Background:Traumatised by a Clown!
When he was 8, he was kidnapped by a serial-killing clown. His ordeal lasted 27 hours, most of which he spent locked in small box terrified out of his mind. When the clown finally decided to kill him he escaped, and after a small after-hours showdown in a hall of mirrors, his terror finally unlocked his potential as he turned into a cloud of gas and drifted away.
Compel - Clowns terrify him. Hates clowns.

Rising Conflict:Judge, Djinn and Executioner
Now safely at home but still trying to get over his ordeal (which will take a few years of therapy and only cause him to internalise his issues), he learns that the clown had been caught, but not before he'd tortured and killed another two boys around his age. Wracked with guilt at the thought that if he'd only done something more to stop his attacker then perhaps they'd still be alive, he gradually starts to obsess.
At the age of 16, he breaks in to the cell of the killer clown, now declared criminally insane and left to rot in an asylum, and executes him for his crimes. Unfortunately that wasn't enough anymore, there were too many serial killers talked about on TV, too many people hurting others and getting away with it. Someone had to stop them.

Compel - Killing is his solution to problems. Is basically a serial killer himself and so may run into problems with the law.

Others:
Never Stops Hunting
He's now 22 and has killed over a dozen people already, all of them killers themselves... he's pretty sure they are anyway. He travels the country on the money he has stolen from them, constantly searching for signs that will take him to the next killer.
Compel - Can't turn down a hunt. Easily distracted by signs of a killer. Rarely thinks of anything else.

Be like the wind.
He's developed his powers so that he can change into gaseous form and back whenever he wants, as well as controlling the wind itself. More than that, he tries to be silent but powerful, going where ever he likes swiftly, without being seen and leaving no trace of his presence.
Compel - Not used to working with people.

------------Powers-----------

[-3] Gaseous Form
[-2] Breath Weapon (Air)
[-2] Inhuman Speed


------------Skills-----------

Great: Athletics, Stealth, Weapons
Good: Alertness, Deceit, Investigation
Fair: Burglary, Rapport, Scholarship
Average: Endurance, Presence, Resources

What do you think? I thought it'd be nice to have an air elemental. My first thought was to give him channelling but then he's got to have a high conviction, high discipline, a decent lore for focus items etc and then he would be like other wizards. This way he's a very different character, relying on weapons (knives or something) and his breath weapon, plus lots of stealthy tricks with gaseous form. He can use breath-weapon to create manoeuvres too and he doesn't literally have to breath it, so I can see it being very useful for a variety of effects without taking any mental stress.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Crion on July 22, 2010, 02:44:26 PM
I'm not dead, I promise! I just fell off the radar for a bit. . .

@CMEast: So, is the character closer to a Jann than an air elemental (even though in some myths, they are one in the same)? Just a bit curious there.
Instead of the up-front fighters that we often see (Earth Elementals, Scions of Gods of Strength, etc), you wanted something sneakier? I can dig that.

And personally, I can see this Scion picking up something akin to a spell Elaine uses to detect subtleties in the air. . .perhaps after he's around a while, pick up a few of those tricks? ^_~

If you get a chance to play him, tell me how that goes.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Thrythlind on July 24, 2010, 08:23:26 PM
Aki Komatsu

High Concept: Half-Oni Tea Mistress
Trouble: Daddy Issues
Background Aspect: Tea is Sacred
Rising Conflict: Have to Learn All the Blends
Adventure Aspect: I'm Korean, Damn It!

First Adventure: Tea Time With The Shade

When a spirit threatens the upcoming high school graduation with slaughter and massacre, one of the graduating class sets out to stop the haunt armed only with her knowledge of tea and tea ceremony.  Can Aki succeed without alerting the wrong sorts of spirits as to who and where she is?

(Chest-Deep)
Powers:
Ritual: Tea Brewing and Ceremony (-2)
Refinement (-1)
Refinement (-1)
The Sight (-1)
Soulgaze (-0)(application of the Sight)
Wizard's Constitution (-0)

Stunts:
Lore: Occultist (Tea) (-1)
Performance: Pointed Performance (Tea Ceremony) (-1)

Skills:
Superb: Conviction
Great: Endurance, Lore
Good: Performance, Discipline
Fair: Presence, Deceit, Fists
Average: Rapport, Resources, Scholarship, Athletics, Might

(Submerged)
Powers:
Ritual: Tea Brewing and Ceremony (-2)
Refinement (-1)
Refinement (-1)
The Sight (-1)
Soulgaze (-0)(application of the Sight)
Wizard's Constitution (-0)

Stunts:
Lore: Occultist (Tea) (-1)
Performance: Pointed Performance (Tea) (-1)
Conviction: Resilient Self Image (-1)
Endurance: No Pain, No Gain (-1)

Skills:
Superb: Conviction
Great: Endurance, Lore
Good: Performance, Discipline, Might
Fair: Presence, Deceit, Fists, Rapport
Average: Resources, Scholarship, Athletics, Resources

Items:
Jade Tea Set +1 Complexity, +1 Potion Strength
Obsidian Tea Set +2 Control

4 Open Tea/Potion slots

The yokai affiliated with Japan dwell within a section of the Nevernever that is alternately called Horai or Makai.  The spirits of that place can be mischievous, lofty, wise or evil.  There are such stories as that of shape-changing tanuki who accidentally caused the death of an ox and offered his services to the farmer in repayment...only to be worked to death himself by a mortal who thought such spirits tireless.  There are shapechanging spiders that hide as humans waiting to devour their prey.  There are foxes who play tricks on mortals in order to test their virtue, and then either punish or reward them based on their performance.  It is a place as dangerous and alien as that of the faerie, as the evil and respectable yokai are not always identifiable by breed.  It is within the nature of each yokai to be either good, evil or neutral stances.  However, it is nature, not choice.

For example, a road side shrine is maintained dutifully by a particular family or village day after day, year after year, generation after generation.  The yokai connected to said shrine is likely to be benevolent due to the respect given it.  If the shrine is allowed to simply whither and become rundown and forgotten, the connected yokai might likewise simply stop caring about humanity.  If the shrine is maliciously vandalized, then the yokai becomes an evil spirit and sets about to terrorize the area.

IE, The yokai, especially the minor ones, are how they are treated.  Living metaphors for "what goes around comes around".

There are some other truths.  One can always expect Inari to be serene, fair and wise while the foxes under his/her/its rule can range from cruel and evil to benevolent and kind, but all the foxes play tricks, tricks to test, tricks to hurt, tricks to protect, but tricks none the less.  And sometimes they seem to have a different opinion of what is beneficial and what isn't.

Oni can be intelligent and cunning, or thugish and brutish, respectful or bullying, but all are ambitious.

Aki's father is no different.  Haki, an intelligent and cunning oni, he is one of many oni of the past to recognize the power inherent in a mortal's choice to play havoc with the politics of the youkai.  And so he crafted a human disguise and set to Earth in order to create a weapon.  A half-oni child to be used as a wild card in the exchanges of youkai politics and warfare.  However, his disguise slipped soon after the human woman he seduced became pregnant, as did his plans for the child.  With his disguise stripped, he had to return to yokai or risk his plan being discovered, but promised to return on the child's fourth (four representing death) birthday to claim her.

That left Ji Hyun Komatsu, the woman who bore the child, almost five years to find a way to protect her daughter.  With some help, Ji Hyun tricked the father of her child into a tea ceremony that was really a complex ritual of sorts.  Through a combination of magical teas and the ritual she bound a certain promise into Haki.  First that he could not take Aki against her will, and second, that he could not directly speak or otherwise communicate with her.

The four year old Aki herself witnessed the event...and it started her near obsession with the ritual of tea ceremony.

However, even afterwords, there have been issues with yokai acting in her father's interests.  In desperation, Aki and her mother left Japan for America, and settled far away from the Oriental districts, in hopes that Haki would have trouble sending agents to trick or tempt Aki in lands more or less ruled by other nations of the Nevernever.  The Faerie in particular.

Aki has grown up obsessively learning all that she can about the tea ceremony, both the mundane well known aspects and the more mythical and powerful recipes and ceremony variations.  She collects rituals and tea recipes where-ever she can, sometimes going to almost foolhardy lengths to collect a rare recipe for a tea that she knows doesn't even have any supernatural significance.  She doesn't particularly care: tea is tea, and she wants to learn all she can about it.

Aki, recently graduated from high school and starting college, is the waitress and brewmaster for a small tea house run by her and her mother.  They are aware that operating a Japanese Tea House makes it easier for Haki to reach them through agents, but so far they have gone undetected.

Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Myrddhin on July 25, 2010, 12:58:43 AM
Not perfectly happy with her Aspect names and only gave her a bare bones history, but a fun exercise.

Persephone “Sephy” Anastos
Power Level: Up To Your Waist (7 refresh, 25 skill points, cap at Great)

High Concept: Descendent of Leucosia (Alternatively: Scion of a Siren)
Trouble: My Nature Calls In A Song So Sweet

Background Aspect: Home Is Where the Heart Is
-Persephone’s family moved around a lot when she was growing up, never calling anywhere home for more than a year or two. She has an older brother and younger sister, Alexis (goes by Alex) and Georgia respectively. Though she longs for a lasting sense of home, that deep sense of belonging tempered by time and love, she often fears that she has already inherited her parents’ wanderlust, as her nights are filled with dreams of rocky islands, serene shorelines, and beautiful fields.

Rising Conflict: A Voice To Make Angels Weep
-During one of their longest stays Persephone can remember, a whopping two and a half years so that she and Georgia could finish high school, her friends pushed her to sign-up for a local talent contest, encouraging her to sing. According to everyone there, she won, awing the audience and judges with a haunting melody sung in Greek, though she claims to have no recollection of her stellar performance. In truth what she recalls both terrifies and fascinates her, she heard a voice, inhumanly beautiful, in place of her own as she sang, smelled the salty air of the ocean on every movement of the air and felt as though she could take flight if she but willed it.

Adventure Aspect: Voices of the Past, Lives of the Present
-Only a year into college, and with just a rudimentary knowledge of what she is and what she can do, will she be able to defend herself from a mysterious and statuesque man who seems to be intently pursuing her, and may know far more about her heritage than she does?

Skills

Great: Performance
Good: Presence, Rapport, Scholarship
Fair: Alertness, Athletics, Empathy, Contacts
Average: Conviction, Discipline, Endurance, Lore

Stunts

Pointed Performance (Performance): Can create more focused effects when performing for an audience.

Powers

Incite Emotion (Awe; At Range) [-2]
-Uses Performance instead of Deceit

Human Form (Involuntary Change: Significant Duress/Fear) [+2]
-   Claws [-1]
-   Wings [-1]
-   Incite Emotion (Lasting Emotion) [-1]
-   Inhuman Speed [-2]
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: toturi on July 26, 2010, 04:51:32 AM
It seems that many of the scions created do not have Marked by Power. Some of the scions that have fae origins could possibly be put under the changeling templates, but shouldn't other scions be using the Emissary template?
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Deadmanwalking on July 26, 2010, 12:15:17 PM
It seems that many of the scions created do not have Marked by Power. Some of the scions that have fae origins could possibly be put under the changeling templates, but shouldn't other scions be using the Emissary template?

Templates are suggestions, and Scions are basically their own...or more accurately their own set. They are also really NOT an Emissary of their parent, so they can rather easily have Marked By Power (or not) as is appropriate for them individually.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: CMEast on July 26, 2010, 12:28:38 PM
Quote
A magical mark is upon you, placed by a creature or person of significant power. It’s not that the mark provides any actual protection, but magically aware people and creatures can perceive this mark upon you and word tends to get around that you’ve been “claimed.”

Not all scions are 'chosen', some are just fallout; left-overs of some power or force and so have very little standing or power. On the other hand, a changeling whose parent is particularly powerful or respected could be called an emissary of power and be marked as such, even though they are changelings.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Crion on July 26, 2010, 04:11:46 PM
Following up with what was mentioned by Deadmanwalking and CMEast:

Scions are different from those "Marked By Power." Scions are literally the descendants of an entity of power with mortal blood. Changelings can be considered as Scions if you chose to lump them as such, but in theory, anything that is a mix of a non-mortal supernatural entity and a mortal can be considered a Scion.

Some non-changeling examples from the series include Mouse, Glau, and Kincaid. Unless you knew exactly what you were looking for, or viewing them via the Sight, you would have no idea that they were non-mundane entities. Therefore, not marked by power.

If you are familiar with mythology, all of those children and descendants of gods are technically Scions. Hercules and Perseus are probably the two easiest to name and remember in Western cultures, and if you remember them, they appeared just like normal people, except they were "better" in some ways.



Which, again, brings me back to this thread, and why I'm thoroughly enjoying seeing what people are doing with Scions in their own games.

Speaking of, I'm working on some NPCs to have "on tap" for my party, and one of them using the idea of the Black Court Dhampir that was previously mentioned. So, Deadmanwalking, care to tell me what you think?

Black Court Dhampir "Template"
Requirements:  [-2 Refresh]
Vampiric Detection [-1] (Allows detection of Black Court Vampires)
Vampire Hunter [-1] : Any attack made by a Dhampir fulfills the Catch of a Black Court Vampire.
Wizard's Constitution [+0]
High Concept or Trouble Aspect to denote lineage

Optional:
Cloak of Shadows [-1]
Inhuman Speed [-2]
Inhuman Strength [-2]
Inhuman Toughness [-2]; The Catch is Unknown [+0]


I think it's enough of a difference from the Red Court Infected to make it worthwhile to note. Thoughts?
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Thrythlind on July 26, 2010, 05:21:28 PM
I was thinking about what sort of aspects to appy to show Aki's obsessive compulsive nature and her tendency to stop at doorways and gates and arches and other such things and bowing before passing through.

Then I realized that her low refresh hits the Obsessive Compulsive pretty hard and the existence of Threshold explains  why she'd stop and bow at every gate (though she does it in places there are no thresholds) or entry-way
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Quazar on December 03, 2010, 06:03:23 PM
Sorry about necroing this thread, but I really like many of these Scion character idea.  Particularly the Dhampir template and the gay All-America Muslim with a dead priestess in his head.  Absolutely brilliant stuff.  It seems like these characters are where the DFRPG really branches out into the unknown.

Does anyone else have play-tested scions, now that the game has been out for awhile?
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Richard_Chilton on December 03, 2010, 08:45:24 PM
I was thinking that Scions of Neil Gaimon's Endless would be pretty cool. Destiny, Death, Destruction, Dream, Desire, Despair, Delusion.

(click to show/hide)

Richard
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Richard_Chilton on December 03, 2010, 08:54:35 PM
In our game there's someone playing a scion "Son of the Trickster".  His main claim to fame is modular shapeshifting.  He doesn't have a lot of power but what he has gets switched around.  He needs to be tough? Inhuman Toughness.  He's been hurt? Inhuman recovery.  He needs to run fast? Inhuman speed.  He needs to be tough and run fast after he's been hurt? Then he's out of luck.

The theory is the trickster is always different and always has the trick he needs when he needs it - and that was the best way of showing that.

Other than that... http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,22285.msg963632.html#msg963632 (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,22285.msg963632.html#msg963632) is the outline of a character who sought power, but it could easily be shifted to the son of a greek god discovering his potential.  Note that parts covered with the spoiler tags might not be work safe.

Richard
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: sinker on December 04, 2010, 06:58:03 AM
Reminds me of a (sort-of) Scion of Chaos that I played once in a different system. There weren't any modular abilities so I wound up taking a mimic power and just trying not to steal the same thing twice. It led to one of my favorite moments in a game:

GM(Paraphrased): Some big wolf beast jumps in and starts biting people and then those people start turning into more wolf beast things. What do you do?
Player 1: I attack.
Player 2: I use my powers to hurt them.
Me: I bite them!
GM:....No.

Anyway back to the topic one of my friends played a character concept of a person who was brought back from the dead using the blood of the world serpent and then trained by the Einjerhar and now works for Monoc. He had Inhuman recovery and some decent physical fighting skills, and then the ability to shapeshift into a snake form that had access to Loki's knowledge (I.E. thaumaturgy and all the skills that go along with it). It worked out pretty great once he figured out to use a non-magnetic axe (we had an earth mage).
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Buscadera on December 04, 2010, 02:18:54 PM
I've got a few scion characters written up among my loads and loads of character sheets that I he written up. Rather than list out all the character sheets, I'll just mention the high concepts.

Among my ideas for scion characters are: the Storyteller Son of Anansi, the Boorish Son of Hercules, a Smooth-Talking Jann Lawyer, the Vernal Lord of the Pixies, a Half-Ankou Horror Mogul, a Meddlesome Jann Detective, a Sasquatch Jock, an Infernal Ex-Spy Troubleshooter, a Descendant of the Monkey King, a Dwarven Artisan, an Infernal Lawyer, a Nephilim Private Investigator, a Merfolk Mercenary and a Troll-Blooded Hard Man.

I really like scions as characters, since they can be whatever you want them to be without the restrictions of the templates in the books. I can make my jann quick and clawed while my dwarven character is hearty and stout, and both still fall under the "scion" domain.
Title: Re: How Many Scions Can You Make?
Post by: Peteman on December 07, 2010, 03:01:56 AM
Voidborn.

The original idea is based on the Nephilim from Eden Studios Armageddon setting, but I think Angelic Scions would have different builds.

Nothing. That is what many who See the Voidborn describe. Not an all consuming emptiness, but simply not there.
What exactly a Void Born is, is not sure, but their magic consumption abilities place suspicion in the realm of those that consort with Outsiders.

Musts: High Concept Related to being Voidborn.
Inhuman Strength (-2)
Inhuman Recovery (-2)
The Catch: Fire (+1)
Physical Immunity +8 (Direct Supernatural Effects)
Stacked Catch +3 (Physical Harm: +2 not magic is easy to come by, and even indirect magical attacks like accelerating a rock at the Voidborn's head will work. Doesn't get the +2 from only affecting magic)

Optional: Upgrade to Mythic Recovery