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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Archmage_Cowl on May 03, 2010, 11:29:25 PM
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Okay so I have a session tomorrow and we are coming up to the end of the story arc and everyone in my group is going to be fighting a dark sorcerer who got a little too god complexy. Well I ruled in my game that sorcerers can get death curses provided they have thaumaturgy. But the problem is when he goes(its almost guarenteed but injurelessly? Ha!) He is gonna want to throw a death curse at them(they all seem to have magicly forgotten about death curses even though Ive warned them time and time again) So i was wondering how he would throw his death curse? I mean i was thinking he would attempt to kill them instantly with it(sorta like Sells tear your heart out spell) or at least give them a terrible aspect(i have some question about how to stat it up but this is more important right now) but the only versions of these spells i have seen are single target. Can they be made multiple target or if he wants to kill them am i better going with an enhanced evocation type of deal against them?
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Apply the normal Evocation modifier for targetting everyone in a zone. It's two shifts, and should do the trick. It won't work for bloodline curses or anything like that but kill-you-all right now? Sure. That means you'll need 38 shifts for the Victor Sells effect.
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I wouldn't do it as a straight up evocation effect, unless you really really want to kill a character. Make it a special effect plot device that does something subtle, like putting a secret aspect on the characters that you can compel a lot.
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I wouldn't do it as a straight up evocation effect, unless you really really want to kill a character. Make it a special effect plot device that does something subtle, like putting a secret aspect on the characters that you can compel a lot.
Thats one of my two other main delimma's. One is do i kill them for failing to prepare, cripple them, or just alter their fate for the worse? The second is how would i go about statting it up for sure? I have some ideas i think are good ones and ill post them here in a little but i'm eating right now lol.
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If you want to kill them, stat the spell out like deadmanwalking suggests, at 38 shifts. If you want to just seriously injure them, you can do something closer to 30 shifts. If you want to do something more plot devicey, don't stat it up at all.
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If you want to kill them, stat the spell out like deadmanwalking suggests, at 38 shifts. If you want to just seriously injure them, you can do something closer to 30 shifts. If you want to do something more plot devicey, don't stat it up at all.
Thanks for the advice ;D The evil sorcerer somehow tapped outsider mojo so i'm wondering if i should place like a hidden aspect "hunted by outsiders" or something like that on them.
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If you want to kill them, stat the spell out like deadmanwalking suggests, at 38 shifts. If you want to just seriously injure them, you can do something closer to 30 shifts. If you want to do something more plot devicey, don't stat it up at all.
This. At 30 shifts they'll have the choice of Extreme Consequences or death. And if it's more subtle you can still stat it up, just do, say, the normal Entropy Curse, adjust duration to 'several mortal lifetimes' (to last a Wizard's whole life) and maybe adjust what Aspect it gives.
Whatever you do, do make sure the villain in question could pull it off using the Death Curse rules. nothing annoys players more in my experience than getting arbitrarily screwed by the GM. If it's within the rules and they've been warned it's not arbitrary and likely to result in less in the way of hard feelings.
Thanks for the advice ;D The evil sorcerer somehow tapped outsider mojo so i'm wondering if i should place like a hidden aspect "hunted by outsiders" or something like that on them.
Absolutely. That sounds like a perfect Death Curse. Just figure out how he's going to word it ("Lord, hunt them down." comes to mind) and you're good to go.
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Thats one of my two other main delimma's. One is do i kill them for failing to prepare, cripple them, or just alter their fate for the worse? The second is how would i go about statting it up for sure? I have some ideas i think are good ones and ill post them here in a little but i'm eating right now lol.
To some degree it depends on who the caster is and what he specializes in, but lets assume hes primarily a spirit/thaumaturge. with a lore of 4 Great, Disciplone of 4 Great and +2 in control bonuses.
If his desired affect is the victor sells like heart explosion spell he needs. 38 shifts to garentee it works [ im trusting deads math here] To invoke a death curse you essentially use up all of your remaining physical consequence slots. but you said hes not gonna go down without a fight. so im going to arbitrarily assume that the sorcerer has already used up his mild and moderate consequences. leaving him a potential +14 from his severe and extreme. add that to his base of 6 and you've got a 20 to work with. if hes got any fate pionts he can drop thouse in as well. but a think a blanket strength 18 attack against them all is likly to be enough to scare them
Summation
Impromptu death curse "Die With Me!" 20 shifts 18 attack, 2 to hit the zone.
18 strength attack against everyone there
Uses your extreme and severe consequence slot. add the rating of any other consequences left and/or fate points.
At this strength it probably wont flat out kill any of them but it will definitly leave them with some consequences to remember.
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If his desired affect is the victor sells like heart explosion spell he needs. 38 shifts to garentee it works [ im trusting deads math here] To invoke a death curse you essentially use up all of your remaining physical consequence slots. but you said hes not gonna go down without a fight. so im going to arbitrarily assume that the sorcerer has already used up his mild and moderate consequences. leaving him a potential +14 from his severe and extreme. add that to his base of 6 and you've got a 20 to work with. if hes got any fate pionts he can drop thouse in as well. but a think a blanket strength 18 attack against them all is likly to be enough to scare them
um not to split hairs here or anything but cant they tag any consequences they have taken when they toss their death curse? so it doesnt matter how long they fight they are still gonna get to use all their consequences to power their death curse.
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um not to split hairs here or anything but cant they tag any consequences they have taken when they toss their death curse? so it doesn't matter how long they fight they are still gonna get to use all their consequences to power their death curse
I could certainly be wrong. but i do not believe so no. im fairly certain its "burning out your body" to power the curse. so if your already almost dead its a pretty feeble curse.
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I went and looked it up and its worded kinda weirdly
death—all of the consequences he
has can be tagged, and he can inflict more
upon himself if he’s got the space, since he’s
not going to be around afterward.
So it looks like he can tag all of his "base consequences" and then essentially tag them again if they haven't been used...Personally i don't like that but that would add something in the range of 20 to the power of the sample affect. which will likely auto kill your pcs{ unless they have supernatural or better toughness of scary good defenses]
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You're both half-right. They can indeed tag all their consequences (so Moriden's example is at least 8 points low, it should be 28), but they can also inflict additional consequences on themselves for even more horror.
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I could certainly be wrong. but i do not believe so no. im fairly certain its "burning out your body" to power the curse. so if your already almost dead its a pretty feeble curse.
Check out pg 282 YS. He can tag the consequences on himself.
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Edit
I went and looked it up and its worded kinda weirdly
So it looks like he can tag all of his "base consequences" and then essentially tag them again if they haven't been used...Personally i don't like that but that would add something in the range of 20 to the power of the sample affect. which will likely auto kill your pcs{ unless they have supernatural or better toughness of scary good defenses]
Tagging and burning for effect are different, tagging only gives a +2 per Consequence, burning for effect gives the Consequence value (8 for an Extreme Consequence, for example).
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What dead said, [good to learn this all now before it comes up in my games], keep in mind that anything over a 24 strength attack is very likely to kill the targeted pc's.
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It's fairly easy to avoid over 24 though. Have him keep fighting until all his Consequences up to Severe are filled, at that point the most he'll be able to get out of his Consequences is +14 plus 2 more for every additional Consequence he's got from skills and Stunts. Add in his Lore and that's all he'll get. even with Superb Conviction, Lore, and Endurance that's only a 23 Complexity Death Curse.
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that's only a 23 Complexity Death Curse.
If the pcs are wounded at this point [likely] it'll still put them down. again exempting were's and such. id recommend taking a look at the characters sheets and figuring out what numbers are likely to force them to take 2-3 of there available consequences not to die, and rig the numbers not to go over that.
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If the pcs are wounded at this point [likely] it'll still put them down. again exempting were's and such. id recommend taking a look at the characters sheets and figuring out what numbers are likely to force them to take 2-3 of there available consequences not to die, and rig the numbers not to go over that.
At this point he's not planning on direct damage anyway, so it matters little. It was a more general statement. Also, an excessive opponent. A more reasonable opponent will be more able to manage 'only' 18-20 by the time they're that hurt.
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Ive thought on this and have decided to go with the secrety aspect(which i will stat up cause one of my players is a major rules junkie :P) because we are just about to go into this battle and several of us already have severe consequences and everyone has at least a mild. So any major damaging mojo would likely be fatal, and i would rather not kill my players(even if they do deserve it lol) So i figured a spooky half understood curse that haunts them for at least the next several adventures, if not the whole campaign, will teach them a lesson. ;D
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This is still going to need to be a consequence based curse, so he will still need 24 shifts of power:
2 for zone
10 to ensure they don't resist (Superb+max roll+1=10)
4 for their stress track
8 for the extreme consequence
24 total
If he is limited to 23 like some have suggested he will either have to leave an option for someone to resist, do only a severe consequence, or hit only one person with the curse.
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If he is limited to 23 like some have suggested he will either have to leave an option for someone to resist, do only a severe consequence, or hit only one person with the curse.
The 23 was a specific example. Also, you don't need a Consequence based curse to do what's suggested. Look at it as a Maneuver with Duration more than an attack, and look at Entropy Curse on p. 296 for an example. Though that's actually more Shifts of power depending on duration. 26 for 'Several Mortal Lifetimes', 28 to do it to a group. 'A few years' would only be 22, 24 to do it to a group. A few months would be 18, 20 to a group.
I suspect the villain's going to need to burn his Severe and Extreme Consequences on this one to make it stick.
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I was actually originally going to say that this would be a maneuver with lots of shifts to increase the time factor, but then I read pages 264 and 265 closely I changed my mind as it seemed that if you want to do a curse with a serious effect you probably need to use a consequence.
I guess though I was right the first time (in my mind), since he said he just wanted to apply a "secret aspect". However, it just seems to me that whatever that aspect is it shouldn't really be that bad since it is actually easier to cast than even a mild consequence.
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Well, look at "Bad Luck" the example Aspect. This sure as hell isn't worse than that. And, because of the Duration Factor, making it last any reasonable length of time IS much harder than a Mild Consequence
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Well, look at "Bad Luck" the example Aspect. This sure as hell isn't worse than that. And, because of the Duration Factor, making it last any reasonable length of time IS much harder than a Mild Consequence
I am pretty sure that whatever Archmage_Cowl is planning is worse than "Bad Luck". Really if something on the level of Bad Luck is the worst "death curse" that he can land on someone, well that is just sad, unless it lasts for a decade or something.
Really the key point then is that Archmage_Cowl needs to make sure whatever the result of the curse is that it is not worse than a maneuver would allow. If it is then a consequence should be used. This is entirely a GM and player call....
Pg. 265
A mild curse might place an aspect on a target, but once the magic runs its course, the victim is left largely as he was. In contrast, a spell that burns out a victim’s emotional capacity may also last for months, but not because there’s any magic left behind. Players and GMs should keep this dividing line in mind when deciding whether to express a spell’s effect as a temporary aspect (like a maneuver) versus a consequence or permanent change.
The real problem as I see it is that a mild consequence for one person might cost 10+4+2 = 16, and would last only once scene after recovery starts, which means it could easily be resolved in a day or less. Meanwhile "Bad Luck" with 16 shifts lasts "A few days". A moderate consequence (18) would likely last until the end of the next session, which is less than the "A few weeks" that Bad Luck would last for that cost. Same with Severe, it lasts until the end of the next scenario vs "A few months" for the same cost, but then you can keep going with Bad Luck right up to a decade or more.... And since you can do things like Blindness, Fear of clothing, Fear of people, endless laughter, Deaf, Dumb (devastating to a wizard), etc., and there is NO method for removing such a curse, maneuver curses are potentially just way over-powered.
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Um, clearly you haven't realized how bad an Aspect 'Bad Luck' is. This can almost literally be compelled to make anything bad that's remotely possible happen to you. That's awful.
As for the Maneuver vs. Consequence thing, remember that a Consequence fills up a Consequence slot and thus prevents it from being used to save your life. Aspects from a Maneuver curse do no such thing.
Also, you can actually do Thaumaturgy to remove a Maneuver curse, since it's an ongoing effect. Not so much with one that's dealt you a Consequence, since that's over and done with (mystically speaking).
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Remember that "taken out" doesn't necessarily mean "killed". It means "removed from the conflict" - in a way determined by the person doing the taking out. So don't worry too much about overpowering the death curse if it is not going to be simple and straightforward ("die!"). If the sorcerer is a petty and vindictive sort, he may want to curse them with suffering that lasts a lot longer. Plus, it will be a wake-up call if the PCs realize that he could have killed them. That should also make them worry about the curse...
Taking them out also means you are free to set the conditions for breaking the curse to whatever you want - it doesn't have to be tied to a thaumaturgical ritual or recovering a consequence.