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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: surarrin on April 29, 2010, 04:56:40 PM
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So, I am making a Minor Talent who has Cloak of Shadows as his minor power.
I want to develop him towards the magic end of the spectrum with Shadow (as an element) as his focus. Now a few ( one in particular) are crying foul over using an 'element' that isn't one of the classics.
One of the main points of contention is that I want to use Thaumaturgy to make an enchanted item that when thrown, and hits a targets shadow traps them for a small duration of time, but they're saying that this is impossible mechanically.
I'd like to get some opinions on either side of the arguements for these.
I've argued that it's mainly fluff, and that hitting someone, or hitting their shadow means they're still going to have to dodge, but it's fallen on deaf ears. Can any of you help? :(
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You should use spirit as the element behind this. Its the one that is used with photomancy, can create and manipulate light, bend light and create shadows (by pulling light away from an area).
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Why couldn't you trap them by hitting their Shadow? It's a Block action as per normal that they dodge as per normal, the rest is just flavor.
And alternate element structures are explicitly allowed, Shadow seems a reasonable one, particularly for a Focused Practicioner.
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You should use spirit as the element behind this. Its the one that is used with photomancy, can create and manipulate light, bend light and create shadows (by pulling light away from an area).
I was working with spirit as the baseline for the magic, but apparently that wasn't enough. :s
I hadn't considered photomancy, it vaguely fits, but doesn't completely mesh with the idea I had in mind.
Why couldn't you trap them by hitting their Shadow? It's a Block action as per normal that they dodge as per normal, the rest is just flavor.
And alternate element structures are explicitly allowed, Shadow seems a reasonable one, particularly for a Focused Practicioner.
I've argued that it's just fluff tacted on, but they refuse to accept it because "There is a huge mechanical difference."
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See p. 253 for the sidebar explicitly allowing non-standard Elements.
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I've argued that it's just fluff tacted on, but they refuse to accept it because "There is a huge mechanical difference."
How the heck is it a mechanical difference?
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You should use spirit as the element behind this. Its the one that is used with photomancy, can create and manipulate light, bend light and create shadows (by pulling light away from an area).
I concur. Spirit seems to be the element that should be used here.
As to your item. I don't see why that shouldn't be possible in some way or another. Creating such an Item is certainly covered by the ruls. When you have the Enchanted Item Slots to create it you could design an apropriate effekt. Your Item might capture the shadow by use of spirit magic and impose a termporary aspect on your target: SHADOW TRAPPED. I would have to look at the details some more but I'm sure that such an item is possible.
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I've argued that it's just fluff tacted on, but they refuse to accept it because "There is a huge mechanical difference."
I'm with Luminos. What huge mechanical difference? Do they use a different skill to defend? Because that's actually allowed (see the sample spells section and look at the spells, half of them use something other than Athletics as a defense).
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I'm with Luminos. What huge mechanical difference? Do they use a different skill to defend? Because that's actually allowed (see the sample spells section and look at the spells, half of them use something other than Athletics as a defense).
I'd see it as using Athletics to dodge, or a counterspell. The only advantage would be the first use when they don't expect a dagger to the shadow to have an effect on them, but that might be enough to get a No. :s Once it hit's it'd be subject to a conflict to determine how long it holds for (max being 30 seconds), and that's open to a variety of counters (might, Discipline, Conviction)
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My suggestion write up the rotes you want with no fluff. Get them approved, then ask for the shadow trappings. Anything weird that you don't think the mechanics covers had with aspects.
Take an aspect like "Unexpected shadowy techniques" which you can invoke to use said techniques, but they can tag as being wise to your ways.
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So, everyone agrees with me so far.
I'd give my left foot for Iago to come along and put in his two cents. ;D
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Oh, come on. That's not fair. The poor guy is only getting thirteen minutes of sleep per day as is. ;)
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The poor guy is only getting thirteen minutes of sleep per day as is. ;)
It's a rule. Can't have more than thirteen...
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Personally, I think it sounds like a great idea - both the shadow magic and trapping someone by hitting their shadow (which is really just a special effect). There's definitely precedent for something similar in the series - Nicodemus Archleone - so I'm not sure why your group thinks this is so out of line.
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Personally, I think it sounds like a great idea - both the shadow magic and trapping someone by hitting their shadow (which is really just a special effect). There's definitely precedent for something similar in the series - Nicodemus Archleone - so I'm not sure why your group thinks this is so out of line.
Because according to them Nicodemus is hacking reality with his Fallen Angel, and that no one without just as much power and knowledge could do anything similar. :s
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Because according to them Nicodemus is hacking reality with his Fallen Angel, and that no one without just as much power and knowledge could do anything similar. :s
I'm curious what the concepts of your friends are using, and by extension if any of them are more absurd than your relatively simple "Spirit controls Light and by extension Shadow."
Which by comparison would be equal to Fire is really Heat control and can be used to create Fire or Ice, something Harry has done several times throughout the books.
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I'm curious what the concepts of your friends are using, and by extension if any of them are more absurd than your relatively simple "Spirit controls Light and by extension Shadow."
Which by comparison would be equal to Fire is really Heat control and can be used to create Fire or Ice, something Harry has done several times throughout the books.
Well, so far we have;
A Venatori Assassin with a Minor Talent (Cloak of Shadows)
A Pixie Changeling one step away from becoming fully fey, who is around 2 feet tall and uses a fleshmask to hide her nature.
A Weremargay
A Valkyrie who's Catch is single combat.
A Focused Prac who makes Magical Bombs (Talked about this on here prior.)
A Focused Prac who usesThaumaturgic Photomancy to make Illusions.
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Well, so far we have;
A Venatori Assassin with a Minor Talent (Cloak of Shadows)
A Pixie Changeling one step away from becoming fully fey, who is around 2 feet tall and uses a fleshmask to hide her nature.
A Weremargay
A Valkyrie who's Catch is single combat.
A Focused Prac who makes Magical Bombs (Talked about this on here prior.)
A Focused Prac who usesThaumaturgic Photomancy to make Illusions.
Lawl, what?
Does that mean whenever there is more than her and a single enemy fighting she's super tough? *Insert nonexistent Face Raised Eyebrow*
I'd allow your character in a heartbeat.
((I had to google "Margay" to find out what it was, wasn't expecting a leopard :P ))
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Lawl, what?
Does that mean whenever there is more than her and a single enemy fighting she's super tough? *Insert nonexistent Face Raised Eyebrow*
I'd allow your character in a heartbeat.
((I had to google "Margay" to find out what it was, wasn't expecting a leopard :P ))
That's how I understand it, but yeah. :s Single Combat she can be bitchsmacked, but against multiple enemies her Inhuman recovery kicks in.
I'll admit, I got frustrated at one point and pointed out to the changling's player that Fleshmask isn't a standard Pixie power, and that their idea of being an entire ensemble at a stripclub wouldn't work because fleshmasks only have a single appearance. :( Not spiteful enough to say they can't have the power, and in the end it is the GM's call.. who vanished 11 days ago.
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Because according to them Nicodemus is hacking reality with his Fallen Angel, and that no one without just as much power and knowledge could do anything similar. :s
Sure, he might be, but that does not mean that you need to be in his weight class to do it with magic. If you look at the books, recall the issues with mirrors being a risk for a wizard.
Your shadow is certainly a thamatergical link to you. Shadow magic strikes me as a good concept for the GM to throw fate points at you for not using. The shopping mall is well lit, have a fate point and don't cast spells. The room is dark and there are no distinct shadows, have a fate point. Likewise: Manuver, I lure him into the light of the streetlamp so he casts a better shadow: Aspect Tag - clear shadow for next turn...
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Sure, he might be, but that does not mean that you need to be in his weight class to do it with magic. If you look at the books, recall the issues with mirrors being a risk for a wizard.
Your shadow is certainly a thamatergical link to you. Shadow magic strikes me as a good concept for the GM to throw fate points at you for not using. The shopping mall is well lit, have a fate point and don't cast spells. The room is dark and there are no distinct shadows, have a fate point. Likewise: Manuver, I lure him into the light of the streetlamp so he casts a better shadow: Aspect Tag - clear shadow for next turn...
Most of my character is gauged towards creating complications. My Trouble is 'Unnatural Attraction'; Monsters want to eat me, another ons is 'For the Greater Good' which explains itself. x)
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A Valkyrie who's Catch is single combat.
What the hell? If that catch is worth more than +1, then that character is cheese. Hell, they allow this but are giving you problem with your shadow magic? That is messed up. A weakness to single combat is not a catch, it is an aspect. It is something that should be compelled to affect the character, not something that should give automatic refresh bonuses.
Also, the pixie changeling doesn't even need a flesh mask. If its a changeling, then it is part human, and having a human body is part of that. Sure, it might have wings and be a really small human body, but it will still be recognizably human. Flesh masks are what monsters use to hide the fact that they aren't human.
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It's just a +1 catch
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Man, now my righteous indignation feels totally wasted. Oh well, they should still let you use shadow magic.
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Because according to them Nicodemus is hacking reality with his Fallen Angel, and that no one without just as much power and knowledge could do anything similar. :s
Not proven (or disproven) by anything we've seen in the books so far, so I guess it is up to your GM. Since you say that he's been missing for 11 days, does that mean that all the objections so far have been from other players?
If these folks aren't friends outside the game, this is about the time I would be reevaluating the people I am gaming with. Anyone that gets that worked up over not liking someone else's character concept probably won't be any fun to play with either.
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Single Combat is actually a rather brilliant catch, and it should give more than +1, should give up to +3.
I really like the idea of somebody who gets stronger depending on how many are facing her in combat. As a valkyrie it makes sense too, she has supernatural powers, but when fighting a single brave mortal, she sets those abilities aside to make it a more fair fight.
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Its an unpredictable catch, which is why I'd only give it +1. I still think that that is the sort of thing which is better represented as an aspect, so that compels could be used to represent the weakness in one-on-one fighting, but a +1 catch doesn't break it.
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Id say give it a higher bonus, and then make the player take an aspect that compels her to try to fight people one on one.
A catch like:
Duelist
You would rather fight one on one, as it is the more honorable way to settle issues.
Invoke: For bonuses in single combat.
Compel: To entice you into single combat.
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now that would be an interesting character.