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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Madmacabre on April 26, 2010, 07:27:05 PM

Title: Glamour Magic
Post by: Madmacabre on April 26, 2010, 07:27:05 PM
Hello all...

One of my PC wants to make a Changeling with some glamour magic...

How can I twist this so that he does not contravene the laws of magic right away?

And should he only take the Sponsored Magic stunt?

How would you build such character?
Title: Re: Glamour Magic
Post by: Archmage_Cowl on April 26, 2010, 07:32:47 PM
well glamour on its own is just a power that creates things like a veil. Is that all the player wants or does he want actual fey magic?
Title: Re: Glamour Magic
Post by: Madmacabre on April 26, 2010, 07:36:47 PM
Well...

My player didn't read the books so he is not entirely sure what changeling are in Dresdenverse.

But I guess he wants to be as close as true fay magic as possible...such as illusions and veils.

Would that be all covered by Sponsored Magic: Seelie ?
Title: Re: Glamour Magic
Post by: Papa Gruff on April 26, 2010, 07:40:25 PM
Quote from: Madmacabre on April 26, 2010, 07:36:47 PM
Would that be all covered by Sponsored Magic: Seelie ?

If the Fey part of the Changeling belongs to Summer i can't see why it would not be.
Title: Re: Glamour Magic
Post by: Archmage_Cowl on April 26, 2010, 07:40:41 PM
well if he is just looking for illusions and veils the Greater glamours power is where its at. If he wants the full range of summer fey abilities(healing, throwing fire, Calling up walls of earth, veils and such) yeah i would suggest Sponsored Magic Seelie(often just shortened to Seelie Magic)
Title: Re: Glamour Magic
Post by: Buscadera on April 26, 2010, 07:41:15 PM
It would be covered by Glamours, which is a separate power unto itself. If your player wanted to up his Fae magic ability some more, s/he could add Seelie or Unseelie Magic depending on the court of their character's Fae parent.
Title: Re: Glamour Magic
Post by: Deadmanwalking on April 26, 2010, 08:57:45 PM
What they said. Glamours are what you want. Seelie Magic is available if he also wants to heal wound and strike down his foe's with Summer's flame, but for Illusions of all sorts, all you need is Glamour.

To answer your question about Lawbreaking: Illusions break none of the Laws by default, though specific mind-manipulating ones could in theory. Glamour, however, most certainly doesn't.
Title: Re: Glamour Magic
Post by: Arandmoor on April 27, 2010, 04:23:01 AM
Quote from: Deadmanwalking on April 26, 2010, 08:57:45 PM
To answer your question about Lawbreaking: Illusions break none of the Laws by default, though specific mind-manipulating ones could in theory. Glamour, however, most certainly doesn't.

Besides which, as a changling rather than a wizard, he's not bound by the laws of magic and doesn't need to worry about Lawbreaker.
Title: Re: Glamour Magic
Post by: Deadmanwalking on April 27, 2010, 09:19:46 AM
Quote from: Arandmoor on April 27, 2010, 04:23:01 AM
Besides which, as a changling rather than a wizard, he's not bound by the laws of magic and doesn't need to worry about Lawbreaker.

It's debatable (and has been debated extensively elsewhere) that, if he had Seelie Magic and broke the Laws, he'd get the Lawbreaker stunt even if the Wardens couldn't touch him. That's actually my personal opinion. But it's not relevant here, so let's not derail the thread.
Title: Re: Glamour Magic
Post by: Llayne on April 27, 2010, 01:58:39 PM
Assuming we're talking about messing with somebody's mind here, I wouldn't give him a lawbreaker stunt, but something to note that he was moving closer to becoming a fae. Being amoral or indifferent enough to mess with somebody's mind and not care is definitely a fae characteristic, and being a changeling you should be constantly worried about going over completely to the other side. That's just me.
Title: Re: Glamour Magic
Post by: Deadmanwalking on April 27, 2010, 02:03:35 PM
We are not derailing this thread.

Glamour doesn't directly mess with someone's mind, wouldn't result in Lawbreaker, and is exactly what he wants. Please, oh please, start a new thread for discussions of Sponsored Magic and the Laws. I'd love to talk about it...just not here.
Title: Re: Glamour Magic
Post by: MWKilduff on July 10, 2010, 09:17:22 PM
I wanted to get some other opinions on the Glamour ability in a game I am about to run.  It looks like there is not a system in place like regular magic and sponsored magic.  How would you restrict the willie nillie use of this power when it does not seem to cost anything to cast?  I was going to rule that it works just like evocation so that there is a mental stress added to a character using this ability so that it does not become over powered.  Opinions?
Title: Re: Glamour Magic
Post by: Deadmanwalking on July 10, 2010, 09:22:28 PM
There's nothing to restrict it. People with Glamour can use it as often as they like, with no restrictions. That's the point.

If you don't want to allow people with casual illusion abiliies then disallow Glamour entirely, but weakening a highly balanced power just isn't fair. I mean, Channeling (Spirit) can do everything Glamour does and smash people to death with Weapon: 5 attacks, Glamour needs some advantage to make up for that.
Title: Re: Glamour Magic
Post by: luminos on July 10, 2010, 09:23:40 PM
glamours is a -2 power that only lets you do veils and change small things about your personal appearance.  It is no where near the stuff that evocation or channeling can do, and you have no reason to worry about it being overpowered.  So no, don't give mental stress to a character using it.  It is balanced as is.
Title: Re: Glamour Magic
Post by: Da_Gut on July 10, 2010, 10:31:19 PM
Quote from: luminos on July 10, 2010, 09:23:40 PM
glamours is a -2 power that only lets you do veils and change small things about your personal appearance.  It is no where near the stuff that evocation or channeling can do, and you have no reason to worry about it being overpowered.  So no, don't give mental stress to a character using it.  It is balanced as is.

Small things? Like make a 12 foot tall ogre wearing only a loin cloth appear as a large human in an old suit and hat? Who was, when so glamoured, able to fit through doors that he couldn't at full size without cracking the frame?
Title: Re: Glamour Magic
Post by: luminos on July 10, 2010, 11:22:38 PM
yes, that. 
Title: Re: Glamour Magic
Post by: Deadmanwalking on July 11, 2010, 01:10:29 AM
Yeah, it's pretty cool. Nobody said it wasn't. It's just not nearly as cool as Channeling (Spirit) which costs the same in Refresh, hence it's lower cost to use.
Title: Re: Glamour Magic
Post by: wyvern on July 11, 2010, 09:18:03 PM
Quote from: Da_Gut on July 10, 2010, 10:31:19 PM
Small things? Like make a 12 foot tall ogre wearing only a loin cloth appear as a large human in an old suit and hat? Who was, when so glamoured, able to fit through doors that he couldn't at full size without cracking the frame?

Personally, I wouldn't let glamours do that.  Glamours changes the appearance of things, not the thing itself; if you've got Hulking Size, glamours won't help.
On the other hand, Human Guise *would* do exactly what you describe, and is explicitly a -0 power.
Title: Re: Glamour Magic
Post by: Falar on July 11, 2010, 09:25:25 PM
Not to mention that that ogre was a Sidhe and most probably had Seelie Magic in addition to the glamours.

EDIT: Also not to mention that appearing as the ogre was one of the main parts of the glamour.
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Title: Re: Glamour Magic
Post by: Da_Gut on July 12, 2010, 12:33:23 AM
Ah, I rereading that book for the first in quite a while, so I've forgotten that.
Title: Re: Glamour Magic
Post by: Falar on July 12, 2010, 12:40:19 AM
Every time I remember that book, I have to jog my memory and remind myself that the ogre was never really an ogre in the first place. My wife only remembered it 'cause she had JUST read the book the other day.