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McAnally's (The Community Pub) => Author Craft => Topic started by: Nickeris86 on April 25, 2010, 09:07:05 AM

Title: Necromancy: for the win
Post by: Nickeris86 on April 25, 2010, 09:07:05 AM
in one of the books i am working on the main character is what i like to call a true born necromancer, meaning he is born with an innate understanding and power over death and those things that are attributed to it, but i am doing necromancy a little differently then how its usually portrayed.

in my world there are two types of necromancers and necromancy. the more common type is the one that every one hears about and use their power like you see in most games and other fantasy genre's. they raise the dead to be their unholy slaves, the mutilate and torture, call up dark forces for stuff, and are just plain nasty. more than likely falling into my worlds pure evil bastard grouping.

the other type are the true born, who behave differently. they are extremely rare, to the point where most never even heard of them and just assume that all necromancers are the fore mentioned type. they like all magic users manipulate primal energies, but they can only manipulate the energy of life and its progression to death. which means they can only destroy things not create them. this gives them great power but vastly limits them as well. they are capable of all the same things the stereotypical necromancers are but in general don't, because they rarely have the need, and there are severe consequences on the karmic level. so it's generally a last resort sort of thing. my original idea cam from when i looked up the meaning of necromancy and one of them was a form of deviation through spirit communication or corpse reading. so most of the powers i have thought up are based around that idea.

now what i need help with is that i am trying to find some ways for my character to use his powers over death to help people and not be to over powered. i have some ideas but i am always open for more.

there are some things to keep in mind

he can not commune with or touch another beings soul, everyone that has ever tried has died horribly, no exceptions.

there are no natural undead in my world, there are creatures that do not meet our sciences definition of life and are infused with the energy of death (vampires and other creatures that are considered undead), and while he can control and manipulate that energy and thus them he has to pit his will against theirs which is rarely a good idea.

he can manipulate dead tissue if there is enough of it, but this takes a lot of effort of will and you need dead flesh, which is hard to get.(this is where zombies and such come from)

anything that are strongly tied to death by belief, such as disease, fear, and decay as some examples, he can also manipulate.

if you have any questions or need some clarification just ask.
Title: Re: Necromancy: for the win
Post by: The Corvidian on April 25, 2010, 04:07:41 PM
One theory about ghosts is that they are psychic recordings, perhaps he can manipulate those, or drain them of their power and use it for himself. Maybe he can lessen the effects of fear.
Title: Re: Necromancy: for the win
Post by: BobForPresident on April 25, 2010, 08:24:42 PM
no exceptions.

From one writer to another, beware of this phrase. It's exactly the mutability of your supposedly solid universe that will keep your readers guessing.
Title: Re: Necromancy: for the win
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on April 25, 2010, 08:40:59 PM
From one writer to another, beware of this phrase. It's exactly the mutability of your supposedly solid universe that will keep your readers guessing.

Not really.

If you write in an invisible pink unicorn to fix a seemingly insoluble problem, you'll lose a chunk of readership.

If you write in a clever way of using the rules and thinks the reader's already been told that the reader hasn't actually figured out yet, then you're ahead.  But to make a twist like that work the rules have to be solidly established first.
Title: Re: Necromancy: for the win
Post by: BobForPresident on April 25, 2010, 08:48:18 PM
Not really.

If you write in an invisible pink unicorn to fix a seemingly insoluble problem, you'll lose a chunk of readership.

If you write in a clever way of using the rules and thinks the reader's already been told that the reader hasn't actually figured out yet, then you're ahead.  But to make a twist like that work the rules have to be solidly established first.

My point is that if you have a rule that is unbreakable, positively unshakeable, and then, behold, someone breaks it, you have a neat little plot line that has a lot of potential.

As far as your pink unicorn analogy...I have no clue where in my post you got that I was suggesting the author do something completely ridiculous and unhiterto referenced. So I'll just make a small curtsey. *curtsey*
Title: Re: Necromancy: for the win
Post by: Wizard H on April 25, 2010, 08:49:04 PM
I think you should look to Gail Z Martin's Necromancer Chronicles.  I think you'd find a lot of inspiration for what you're looking for.
Title: Re: Necromancy: for the win
Post by: Nickeris86 on April 26, 2010, 01:11:31 AM
I think you should look to Gail Z Martin's Necromancer Chronicles.  I think you'd find a lot of inspiration for what you're looking for.

is the first book in that series called the summoner if so then yeah i have read most of them.

as for the infallible rule of not messing with the soul, is because they are protected by Azra'il, the angel of death. he collects the souls of the dead and faeries them to their final destination where ever that may be for that soul. and the only time a person could interfere with a soul is during its transition and no one has ever been able to match Azra'il's strength, so no one even try's too any more.
Title: Re: Necromancy: for the win
Post by: Nickeris86 on April 29, 2010, 10:26:01 PM
i am surprised more people have not posted here.
Title: Re: Necromancy: for the win
Post by: BobForPresident on April 29, 2010, 10:43:02 PM
Don't be. For most of us
(click to show/hide)
. :)
Title: Re: Necromancy: for the win
Post by: Nickeris86 on May 09, 2010, 07:35:10 PM
i really want to here your guys ideas on this so i am bumping this old post.
Title: Re: Necromancy: for the win
Post by: Liger on May 10, 2010, 08:15:25 AM
I know that you want to hear but with the restrictions that you have posted it takes a bit of creativity to figure something out.

That being said the idea that I had was prehaps he could use his abilities to heal.  I know it may sound contradictory to the rules you set, but there are many afflictions which cause scar or dead tissue to be within the human body.  Maybe he can help with that, I don't know how much he needs to have to be able to work with.  Also you said he could manipulate diseases so does this mean that he could lessen their effects if not cure individuals of it.  Or if you don't like that idea then I think you wrote something about him being able to only destroy?  Maybe he can use this to destroy the viruses or bacteria which cause the sickness.

I don't know what direction you want to take this in, but I hope that this helps. :)
Title: Re: Necromancy: for the win
Post by: meg_evonne on May 10, 2010, 03:49:08 PM
now what i need help with is that i am trying to find some ways for my character to use his powers over death to help people and not be to over powered. i have some ideas but i am always open for more.

Sorry that I haven't replied.  I fear that necromancy is one of those genres that hold no interest for me whatsoever.  Ghosts fall into the same category for me.  There are so many ideas out there already from variations on Ghost Whisperer, which can easily be adapted to necromancy, to Dead Like Me to other television series--all again easily adaptable, including a couple episodes of Who and Torchwood. 

You will need to find a rock solid commercial/marketing niche to find something new and unique in your concept and in your story lines to make it different.  Maybe I'd swing on board if it was a cat that did this in companionship with some Angel of Death or something. 

Placing a time limit on the reanimation would limit the 'god qualities' and put the ticking clock on the mystery solving etc, but lets face it, you're screwing with life/death which is god like. 

Actually on re-reading, I rather like the cat concept.  Hard to over god power a cat...  Its not at all what you are interested in with your concept so it's going into my own "someday" when I'm bored and I want to try something new.   :-)  See ideas squirt out everywhere...
Title: Re: Necromancy: for the win
Post by: svb1972 on May 10, 2010, 04:01:39 PM
it sounds like your necromancers are actually manipulating death magic.

Some ideas for "helping people'"

If he can command dead flesh, he can deal with disease and infections.  Not the traditional way of course, but basically he could 'collect' the dead flesh/things in someone and take them out of the body.  Imagine all of the dead cells in someone's body leaving thruogh their pores along with the disease.  Gangreen, blood disease.

Sounds like he should be able to muck with a Trained Necromancer pretty seriously.  Causing them to lose control over their zombies, etc.

What happens if he uses death magic to remove the death out of spoiled food?
Can he take a piece of meat, and seperate out the spoiled part and leave behind something clean?

Necromancers can't touch souls.  That's a tough one, because necromancy is usually the Magic of Souls. 

In your world, how do you explain ghosts?  Do they exist? Do They not, if they do.. why do they exist.  If the Angel of Death comes and takes the souls away at the point of Death.. is there such a thing as the restless dead?

Why is someone born a Necromancer.  Are there Born Lifemages?  are they opposites?
What does Necromancy mean in your world.
Title: Re: Necromancy: for the win
Post by: Nickeris86 on May 10, 2010, 09:03:31 PM
lots of good questions here i'll try to answer all of them. and i really like some of the ideas around disease. i apologize for being vague but i was trying to fallow the rule of the forum of not giving out plot of our stories for copy right reasons.

any way lets dive in.

first of all true born necromancers are created by the angel of death. through some fluke of fate they were still born but weren't on the List so Azriel has to correct the mistake. basically these people were literally touched by the hand of death as he put their soul back in their body and that connection to death never fades, though most never realize that its there. that's why he has such a aversion to the nasty necromancy because his power is forged of natural death not its perversion.

as for ghosts, they do exists but they are imprints of very strong emotions left behind by the dead, they aren't whole so the restless dead to exist they just aren't the actual persons soul. more like a really powerful memory. there are also other creatures that are drawn to and forged from emotion that are like ghosts but they are more like wild animals that feed on the energy given off by the emotions that created them.

as for born life mages yes they do exist but i haven't developed them nearly as much as because they aren't going to show up until later in the story. and in my world the energy of creation or "white magic" can be used for just as nefarious a purpose as "dark magic" its all just different energies of nature. its in the same manner that neither winter or summer is really evil one is just more destructive or predatory than the other.

i placed so many limitations on him because i want him to think and be smart and not just solve all his problems by eviscerating people or giving them the clap. i also looked up what the definition of necromancy was and it originally was a form of deviation by getting information from spirits or reading entrails, and that's kinda the direction i have him heading in. he actually makes his day to day money by being a median.

one of the powers i thought up for him is that doing a little ceremony in which he places a drop of his blood (blood holds a lot of power) on the sensory receptors (eye, ears, nose, what have you) of a relatively fresh corpse he can experience their sensations within the last moments of life if the death was strong enough leave an lasting imprint. its informative but not a fun experience, plus its hard to get your hands on murder victims remains. he does not start out with any affiliation to law enforcement.
Title: Re: Necromancy: for the win
Post by: Gruud on May 17, 2010, 04:15:55 PM
one of the powers i thought up for him is that doing a little ceremony in which he places a drop of his blood (blood holds a lot of power) on the sensory receptors (eye, ears, nose, what have you) of a relatively fresh corpse he can experience their sensations within the last moments of life if the death was strong enough leave an lasting imprint. its informative but not a fun experience, plus its hard to get your hands on murder victims remains.

I like this. Very nice.
Title: Re: Necromancy: for the win
Post by: belial.1980 on May 17, 2010, 05:06:33 PM
Interesting concept. I like!

Maybe your character can establish a link of communication with carrion eaters. Vultures, flesh beetles, worms, maggots, flies, etc. He might be able to commune with them (though I'm not sure how informative a conversation with a worm would be) or control them. The implications are disgusting, but maybe he could save somebody's gangrenous limb by compelling a horde of maggots to crawl in and eat out the dead flesh, but leave the living flesh untouched.

How about being able to concoct magical potions from certain molds or fungi that grow on dead bodies? Or from the petals of flowers left on tombstones for loved ones. The flowers themselves aren't anything special till they've been placed on the headstone; the act empowers or enriches them somehow.

Maybe he can take relatively fresh limbs and organs from dead bodies and transplant them into the living? If he can manipulate diseases, maybe he can remove the disease from a sick person and craft it into an immunization agent to administer to people? If he can manipulate dead tissue, perhaps he can preserve and craft dead flesh into garments (really nice fox pelt cloak) or disguises (wear the face/body of a dead person) or craft interesting weapons, shields, or armor from bone. Imagine a wicked looking suit of armor made from bones; the density of the bone has been increased dramatically, so that it rivals steel. Likewise he could make swords or shields. You could take that notion and run with it and have him craft some really interesting or useful devices from flesh or bone.

Of course there's always the novelty factor: So, Joe the Necromancer attends a boar roast and gets a little tipsy. He uses his control over dead flesh to reanimate the main course, and all a sudden this roasted boar jumps up and runs around the room, apple still stuffed in its mouth, causing hi jinks and more than a few fainting episodes.
Title: Re: Necromancy: for the win
Post by: Kali on May 17, 2010, 05:40:35 PM
Wouldn't it make more sense (and be more gross!) if, to see what the dead man saw, he had to put a drop of the dead man's blood on his own eyes?  Just a thought.

I've always thought a nice twist on necromancy would be that the closer to "living" they are, the harder they are to affect.  They still have too much life energy to them.  So very old things are easier to animate (skeletons) than newly dead things.  Everyone always goes the old=powerful route.  It'd be nice to see someone go the other way.
Title: Re: Necromancy: for the win
Post by: Nickeris86 on May 20, 2010, 09:52:04 PM
Interesting concept. I like!

Maybe your character can establish a link of communication with carrion eaters. Vultures, flesh beetles, worms, maggots, flies, etc. He might be able to commune with them (though I'm not sure how informative a conversation with a worm would be) or control them. The implications are disgusting, but maybe he could save somebody's gangrenous limb by compelling a horde of maggots to crawl in and eat out the dead flesh, but leave the living flesh untouched.

How about being able to concoct magical potions from certain molds or fungi that grow on dead bodies? Or from the petals of flowers left on tombstones for loved ones. The flowers themselves aren't anything special till they've been placed on the headstone; the act empowers or enriches them somehow.

Maybe he can take relatively fresh limbs and organs from dead bodies and transplant them into the living? If he can manipulate diseases, maybe he can remove the disease from a sick person and craft it into an immunization agent to administer to people? If he can manipulate dead tissue, perhaps he can preserve and craft dead flesh into garments (really nice fox pelt cloak) or disguises (wear the face/body of a dead person) or craft interesting weapons, shields, or armor from bone. Imagine a wicked looking suit of armor made from bones; the density of the bone has been increased dramatically, so that it rivals steel. Likewise he could make swords or shields. You could take that notion and run with it and have him craft some really interesting or useful devices from flesh or bone.

Of course there's always the novelty factor: So, Joe the Necromancer attends a boar roast and gets a little tipsy. He uses his control over dead flesh to reanimate the main course, and all a sudden this roasted boar jumps up and runs around the room, apple still stuffed in its mouth, causing hi jinks and more than a few fainting episodes.

Wouldn't it make more sense (and be more gross!) if, to see what the dead man saw, he had to put a drop of the dead man's blood on his own eyes?  Just a thought.

I've always thought a nice twist on necromancy would be that the closer to "living" they are, the harder they are to affect.  They still have too much life energy to them.  So very old things are easier to animate (skeletons) than newly dead things.  Everyone always goes the old=powerful route.  It'd be nice to see someone go the other way.

you both had some great input on this i liked a lot of the ideas, expecially the working with carrion eaters since i had been thinking of something simaler, maybe a raven familure for him later on. i also like the flower idea, the closer something is tied to death the more power it gives him.

and yeah in my world the more "dead" something is the easier it is for him to use, but old things have more raw power simply because they have more memories that he can tap into. places and things are like energy wells, the longer something is around the more energy it takes in, expecially death energy.
Title: Re: Necromancy: for the win
Post by: Wizard H on May 21, 2010, 01:45:13 AM
Sounds great, this guy would really be a force to be reckoned wth if he were on some sort of ancient battlefield.  If he gets himself into a big showdown he should pull a Dresden and find himself some favorable terrain. :D