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McAnally's (The Community Pub) => Author Craft => Topic started by: someguynamedjoe on April 22, 2010, 01:11:28 AM

Title: Avoiding Mary Suehood?
Post by: someguynamedjoe on April 22, 2010, 01:11:28 AM
Gosh, I feel sort of weird asking for advice on this but here goes...

I'm actually writing a graphic novel at the moment and I'm sort of afraid that my main character is becoming too much like me. My main character is a grouchy, misanthropic aspiring science-fiction writer stuck in a dead-end job at a thinly-veiled Starbuck's expy (called Apollo's...) who's being targeted by a gaggle of street performers/assassins who are after his cat.

I started with writing from what I knew (useless college degree, taking crap job to support doing what I love), went from there, and now I'm sort of afraid my main character's become me... only prettier and more interesting.

Anyway, help?
Title: Re: Avoiding Mary Suehood?
Post by: Kali on April 22, 2010, 01:18:50 AM
I think it only counts as a Mary Sue if they're not just prettier and more interesting, but are also uberpowerful, everyone loves them, even their faults are actually positive things, and their mistakes end up being all for the best.

Just basing it on you, if you include all your faults and flaws, isn't enough to make it a Sue.
Title: Re: Avoiding Mary Suehood?
Post by: Starbeam on April 22, 2010, 01:21:35 AM
Basing the character on yourself isn't necessarily a Mary Sue, though it is a self insert.  But I wouldn't really worry too much unless the character ends up being pretty much perfect.  Also, http://www.springhole.net/quizzes/marysue.htm (http://www.springhole.net/quizzes/marysue.htm).
Title: Re: Avoiding Mary Suehood?
Post by: someguynamedjoe on April 22, 2010, 01:43:15 AM
Basing the character on yourself isn't necessarily a Mary Sue, though it is a self insert.  But I wouldn't really worry too much unless the character ends up being pretty much perfect.  Also, http://www.springhole.net/quizzes/marysue.htm (http://www.springhole.net/quizzes/marysue.htm).

Ooookay... so I have a Mary Sue score of 4... guess he's not a Sue. I am a tad concerned about the self-insertion though ("self-insertion"? wow that sounds saucy...)
Title: Re: Avoiding Mary Suehood?
Post by: Jaeh on April 22, 2010, 01:57:45 AM
i personally think authors usually insert a part of themselves, or maybe even a part of who they think they are/who they want to be, in their writing. I don't think self-inserts are that bad, unless you turn it into Mary Suedom and make the book into one this-is-what-i-wish-for-and-i'm-getting-it-through-this-story story.
Title: Re: Avoiding Mary Suehood?
Post by: Starbeam on April 22, 2010, 02:04:13 AM
Looking it up, self inserts look to generally be as minor characters, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-insertion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-insertion).  A lot of people tend to consider self inserts to be pretty much the same as being a Mary Sue, but it's really not.

The main character in the urban fantasy I'm writing is generally me, including flaws.  I was told I should base a character on myself because of the randomness of who I am.  So why not?
Title: Re: Avoiding Mary Suehood?
Post by: meg_evonne on April 22, 2010, 10:07:25 PM
hey, just write and don't worry about it.  that about covers it.
Title: Re: Avoiding Mary Suehood?
Post by: meh on April 22, 2010, 10:29:27 PM

Errr, why are street performers after your cat?
Title: Re: Avoiding Mary Suehood?
Post by: Kali on April 22, 2010, 10:36:27 PM
The cat thought they were stuck in an invisible litter box, and, well...
Title: Re: Avoiding Mary Suehood?
Post by: Nickeris86 on April 22, 2010, 11:53:56 PM
i always base my characters off my own personality, even my villains are part of me. i don't think there is anything wrong with creating a character that is like yourself. i think the fact that street performers are after your characters cat is difference enough between you and them.
Title: Re: Avoiding Mary Suehood?
Post by: Nickeris86 on April 23, 2010, 12:34:31 AM
Basing the character on yourself isn't necessarily a Mary Sue, though it is a self insert.  But I wouldn't really worry too much unless the character ends up being pretty much perfect.  Also, http://www.springhole.net/quizzes/marysue.htm (http://www.springhole.net/quizzes/marysue.htm).

yeah i don't think this test is terribly accurate.
Title: Re: Avoiding Mary Suehood?
Post by: Starbeam on April 23, 2010, 01:30:01 AM
Pretty much every Mary Sue test you find online is going to be something of a variation of that.
Title: Re: Avoiding Mary Suehood?
Post by: meg_evonne on April 23, 2010, 01:55:29 AM
The cat thought they were stuck in an invisible litter box, and, well...
snorting coca cola out my nose...  ty for that.
Title: Re: Avoiding Mary Suehood?
Post by: Kali on April 23, 2010, 01:56:50 AM
snorting coca cola out my nose...  ty for that.

Please don't encourage me.  I already think I'm way funnier than I am. ;D  I'm still giggling over making Rachel's favorite pizza joint "Chichen Pizza".
Title: Re: Avoiding Mary Suehood?
Post by: someguynamedjoe on April 24, 2010, 03:47:13 AM
Errr, why are street performers after your cat?

there's a ridiculous backstory that's revealed little by little by my Big Bad™ involving bus fare, unpaid union dues, and a broken heart and it's all pretty silly.
Title: Re: Avoiding Mary Suehood?
Post by: logarithm.and.blues on April 26, 2010, 02:39:20 AM
Looking it up, self inserts look to generally be as minor characters, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-insertion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-insertion).  A lot of people tend to consider self inserts to be pretty much the same as being a Mary Sue, but it's really not.
Can main characters be self-inserts?
Also, are author surrogates necessarily the same as Mary Sues? You see, in my story, I have a number of people in my cast of characters, and I'm simply trying to avoid any possible Mary Sues. I can't really use the test, though, 'cause I haven't finished the story yet, and I think some of the questions on the quizzes are related to the plot, of which I haven't really settled on yet.
Title: Re: Avoiding Mary Suehood?
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on April 27, 2010, 02:48:05 AM
Can main characters be self-inserts?

Definitely.  There's a fairly strong argument to be made for LKH's main characters being self-inserts, frex.

Quote
Also, are author surrogates necessarily the same as Mary Sues?

Not at all.  You can always write yourself in as a helpful secondary character who dies horribly, for example.
Title: Re: Avoiding Mary Suehood?
Post by: Flintlock on April 27, 2010, 02:37:17 PM
sure fire way to avoiding mary suehood: kill him. no one is perfect if they're a corpse.
Title: Re: Avoiding Mary Suehood?
Post by: Starbeam on April 27, 2010, 03:44:31 PM
sure fire way to avoiding mary suehood: kill him. no one is perfect if they're a corpse.
Supposedly, the original Mary Sue character did die.  So, no, that one doesn't quite work.
Title: Re: Avoiding Mary Suehood?
Post by: Hoyled on April 29, 2010, 11:35:57 PM
You can always read some Dirk Pitt novels and read how the author self inserts himself. Half the time its harmless and amusing, the other half he saves the main characters from certian doom. Deus ex Cussler
Title: Re: Avoiding Mary Suehood?
Post by: belial.1980 on April 30, 2010, 05:45:07 AM
sure fire way to avoiding mary suehood: kill him. no one is perfect if they're a corpse.

I might be mistaken, but I think another trait commonly associated with Mary Sue is when said character dies and all those people that held unfair beefs against him/her tearfully recant and realize how wrong they were, and how right Mary Sue was all along.
Title: Re: Avoiding Mary Suehood?
Post by: meg_evonne on April 30, 2010, 01:31:39 PM
Silly's fun
Title: Re: Avoiding Mary Suehood?
Post by: meh on April 30, 2010, 01:32:39 PM
I might be mistaken, but I think another trait commonly associated with Mary Sue is when said character dies and all those people that held unfair beefs against him/her tearfully recant and realize how wrong they were, and how right Mary Sue was all along.

Yeah, that falls squarely in the "wish fulfillment Mary Sue" bin.