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McAnally's (The Community Pub) => Author Craft => Topic started by: kingaling on April 21, 2010, 03:28:53 AM
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So, here's the thing. I'm just starting to get into the crux of my short story, and I'm fairly certain that once it's done I'm going to take my main character and start a novel (maybe even a series).
But what the main character is capable of, leaves me without an idea for a villain.
My character has the ability to control demons (particularly the 72 goetic demons of the lesser keys of solomon). He can do this with no strings attached, no moral ramifications and no temptations or his soul going to hell for doing so. He has been gifted/earned the rings of Solomon, and his seat of power is The Solomon, not just because of his adept power, but his mental prowess in understanding things.
But, he's already dealing with dark entities (I'm not looking to turn this into a heaven versus hell situation, I have a completely different series I have planned for that), so what could make a good villain for someone who already deals with (and bitchslaps) evil creatures everyday? Any thoughts would be great.
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My first thought is a woman, a temptation. If your story is building to a series, you could have him face off with a bad girl that he has enough tension with that she could become a recurring gray villain/anti-hero in your main series. Think Catwoman and Batman. Your hero sounds too powerful to be troubled by a lesser villain, and it sounds like you plan for your big villains to come in later, but a well-written femme fatale could be introduced and bring up some nice drama in a short setting.
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Make his villain himself, or a reflection of himself. Add in the law of unintended results, and a wierd reflection of the motivation.
Regards,
Kevin
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I see three angles I would take, if it were mine.
Firstly, an equal opposite. Someone with 72 angels to counter his 72 demons, or 72 other demons.
Secondly, he sounds like a pretty understanding/knowledge/structure-based sort of guy, so chaos opposed to his order.
Thirdly, an Outside Context Problem. He clearly has a very good handle on a large body of knowledge about how a particular chunk of metaphysics works; what if that's a much smaller part of the rules of the universe as a whole than he thinks ? What if there's a larger context, in which what he knows is only one small, local, limited set of knowledge (like Newtonian physics in a post-Einstein world) and he's completely unprepared to be blindsided by something that.. is not so much Not Following the Rules, as operating form a different volume of the rulebook that he does not even know exists ?
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Does the Villain have to be,.. Villainous?
What about a Templar like order.
Knights who are adept at slaying Demons. They view him someone who consorts with demons.
Also, why is this guy so cool? How come he gets to get Demons to do what ever he wants with no risk to his soul?
Really? That seems.. too good to be true. Perhaps it is.
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My first suggestion would be angels but you already stated you didn't want to turn this into heaven vs hell.
You could go with Benandanti http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benandanti (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benandanti) and run with that.
Or perhaps the Wild Hunt could come after him. JB's used this, but it's a pretty wide spread legend that lots of legends and authors have adapted.
Maybe think about guardian spirits from different cultures. Or gods/goddesses. Maybe Marduk (killed Tiamat) or Kali (killed a shedload of demons.)
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Or perhaps the Wild Hunt could come after him. JB's used this, but it's a pretty wide spread legend that lots of legends and authors have adapted.
"All fantasy novels come in three volumes and mention the Wild Hunt." - Michael Moorcock.
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Angels and demons are both manifestations of the human psyche. Good and evil are constantly up for debate, because they are largely matters of perception. And perception happens in the mind. They are manifestations of life - even death and killing, because for death to happen, for murder to happen, there must first be something alive.
So what is the opposite of both an angel and a demon?
Mindlessness. Insanity. Negation. The gnostic Demiurge. The horror of oblivion, of that which destroys with recreating, the thing that breaks the truth of e=mc2.
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If your hero is someone who can manipulate that kind of power someone who comes at him head on could be difficult. A good foil would be some sort of a behind the scenes manipulative villain either with a personal grudge or an aim to get his power.
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My first thought is a woman, a temptation.
You assume the character is heterosexual why ?
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a couple of ideas come to mind when i hear of this since i have looked into the key of Solomon as a plot point for my own story. if his power comes from the key of Solomon, which is a object, then a good recurring villein could be thieves, hired or otherwise, just because you control demons does not mean you can keep an eye on your stuff twenty for seven and there is always those that know more than you do in the are of taking your stuff.
the Templar idea is also founded, since they would view any one that went against their own belief system as being evil and thus needs to be destroyed if you made them big enough zealots.
more powerful demons that he can't control.
something that i like to toy around with as good villeins are creatures that come from outside our reality. what i mean is things like the H.P. Lovecraft type creatures that make demons piss themselves with fear. not because they are evil but simply because they are so beyond the anything in our realities understanding that they don't even view us as more than bugs or toys.
though i have to admit the ability's to control demons with absolutely no worries makes the character over powered in my opinion. i have the same problem with my characters where i end up making them into gods so early on in the book that there is no challenge for them in facing off against a villein because they would always win. you always want to add some kind of limiter on your characters so that they don't just end up bichslapping your villain around all the time.
one way i limit my characters is that they are really powerful in one are, but completely incompetent in another. say you have a character that can cause massive destruction and mayhem with little effort but delicate work is beyond them like Harry, yeah he can blow down an entire wall but he can't pic the lock on the handcuffs.
for your demon summoner you could make it so that while he can summon horrible demons and control them, it takes time to summon them, but that's all he can do is summon and control demons making him vulnerable to attacks directed at his person.
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You assume the character is heterosexual why ?
*snickers* good catch neurovore, cuz my character is actually bisexual.
a couple of ideas come to mind when i hear of this since i have looked into the key of Solomon as a plot point for my own story. if his power comes from the key of Solomon, which is a object, then a good recurring villein could be thieves, hired or otherwise, just because you control demons does not mean you can keep an eye on your stuff twenty for seven and there is always those that know more than you do in the are of taking your stuff.
the Templar idea is also founded, since they would view any one that went against their own belief system as being evil and thus needs to be destroyed if you made them big enough zealots.
more powerful demons that he can't control.
something that i like to toy around with as good villeins are creatures that come from outside our reality. what i mean is things like the H.P. Lovecraft type creatures that make demons piss themselves with fear. not because they are evil but simply because they are so beyond the anything in our realities understanding that they don't even view us as more than bugs or toys.
though i have to admit the ability's to control demons with absolutely no worries makes the character over powered in my opinion. i have the same problem with my characters where i end up making them into gods so early on in the book that there is no challenge for them in facing off against a villein because they would always win. you always want to add some kind of limiter on your characters so that they don't just end up bichslapping your villain around all the time.
one way i limit my characters is that they are really powerful in one are, but completely incompetent in another. say you have a character that can cause massive destruction and mayhem with little effort but delicate work is beyond them like Harry, yeah he can blow down an entire wall but he can't pic the lock on the handcuffs.
for your demon summoner you could make it so that while he can summon horrible demons and control them, it takes time to summon them, but that's all he can do is summon and control demons making him vulnerable to attacks directed at his person.
I know it seems too good to be true, but according to legend King Solomon could control the demons, no strings attached. I'm not making it so he can't be tempted, it's just hard to do as my character is complacent. Which is a major flaw. And this is shown in both his personal life as well as his life as The Solomon that he depends too much on other people/things than himself.
You gave me some good ideas about ineptitude.
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Maybe the character could lose the ring (s), just like Solomon did at one point. Or, IIRC, one part of the ring is brass and the other is iron in some legends. Maybe the ring is somehow sundered and a bad guy gets one portion while the main character gets the other. Hmmm, might feel a bit like Green Lantern Corps, but having a nemesis with equal/opposite powers can be fun.
Didn't Simon get tricked by Asmodeus? Something similar could happen. Or maybe a bunch of demon hunters get thrown into the mix, or another horde of demons that're even more uncouth than the ones that your character controls.
Then again, never underestimate a person or group of people who are smart, driven, and ruthless. I imagine there would be a lot of people who'd want to take the character's power for themselves. Just food for thought. I like your idea so far. Good luck with whatever direction you take it.
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Keep in mind, the most effective villains are often those who are convinced they are heroes--that is, they do what they do for what they believe to be the best of intentions. One possibility along those lines would be a devoutly religious person convinced that anyone who trafficks with demons is Evil TMand must be destroyed at any cost.
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Could your villain be one of the demons under your character's control who's not happy about being the bitchboy of some mortal pissant?
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You assume the character is heterosexual why ?
*shrugs* Why not? This was a brainstorming session, right? I threw an idea out there, and if it doesn't stick we try another. I don't see any reason the concept of a bad/gray character that has sexual tension with the protagonist wouldn't work for whatever orientation the characters are. Do you?
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Make the villain someone that can cancel out the power. Doesn't need to be anyone super powerful in their own right, just could be someone with the artifact of making-the-rings-not-work. Think Lex Luthor to Superman. Lex Luthor has no super abilities, but he can get his hands on a lot of kryptonite. Also he puts Superman's friends in danger a lot, so while not always directly threatening to SUperman, he can still hurt him in ways that super powers don't always help with.
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Why not a pair of villains? Siblings, spouse, SO's, parent & child, etc or a relative of your hero???
And why do they have to be a "villain"? Say more of a person who is doing things for the greater good, but the reasoning is not what your main character (hero) thinks is right? Things are not always good vs bad, sometimes good vs good can occur as well. Should this be the route you take it might be easier to weave this character(s) into the story line of any one story. There could be references to them, even when they themselves are not apparently there.
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uhm, I'm heading off in a completely different direction here. Your TRUE story is all before the place you've put your main character. Generally, (Jim claiming to be the devil's advocate at MiHi Con was the only opposing view) your character has to be vulnerable and able to change. If you've already god-powered him up--you've got a pretty serious plot flow problem. Finding a super demon god to confront him/her...well, why?
Tell the story of how the character got or found or won the powers to begin with and get that story under your belt first.
As always, follow your own writer's heart-- If nothing else, remember that every major superhero has kryponite somewhere lurking around the corner or he's as boring as a stick in the mud.
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While The Solomon has the power, the right and the ability. He's not too terribly good at it. And that's the point, that is what goes on with The Solomon. They get the original Solomons rings, and then they have to use figure it out for themselves (for the most part). My character does have an instructor (an alcoholic Djinn named Kinny) and when he doesn't know what to do, or what he's doing, or is practicing, Kinny is there.
My character has a real complacency issue. While he has the rings and the power, he doesn't feel burdened, or gifted. He has a real "whatever" kind of attitude when it comes to things that resemble work, unless it's something that really gets under his skin, annoys him. Maybe its a form of selfishness.
I'm not looking for gigantic uber demons (or uber angels) to come swooping in and messing with him. Though I do like the idea of people that are good, and that he believes to be good, trying to take him down and him not knowing what to do about that. (But that may carry him one.. maybe two stories at the most) so it's difficult to come up with enemies.
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you could always make himself his own worst enemy.
give him a vice, that he has to fight through, or give him no drive to do whats right, or anything. if he is a selfish charecter he is more than likely going to have to face some challenges of his own creation that will, hopefully, lead him down the right road when the time comes for his destiny or whatever you have planed for him.
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Here's an idea that you might want to try if you enjoy free writing. Just sit down and write a short story from the POV of your character's nemesis. Just off the top of your head, without knowing anything about him/her/it. Probably best to do it first person to really get inside their head. This story doesn't have to be anything worth saving, but more of an excercise to see things from the other perspective and generate ideas. Hell, maybe just start with a rant about why the villain is out to ruin the protagonist's day. I think if you can build an attitude and a motivation for the character that's opposed to the MC, the rest will be relatively easy to figure out.
I dunno if it's something that'll work for you but it might be worth trying. If you throw enough at the wall, who knows--some of it might stick.
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Since we're just brainstorming ...
How about some sort of quasi-governmental agency sort of thing, or a powerful mercantile group, etc. that is committed to maintaining the status quo that your character is in the process of dismantling?
This could give you a whole host of enemies to trot out at need, with a faceless big bad lurking out there somewhere, sending his minions after your character.
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your villain doesn't even have to be able to match your main character blow for blow, or be able to stand up to him in a fair fight at all. i mean honestly how many antagonists can you think of that fight fairly. just look at the dresden villains, i mean yeah a lot of them are stronger and more experinced than harry and he outwits them but there are a few that have done the same thing to harry.
like Ortaga in their duel he was getting beaten bad by harry in a contest of wills so he cheated, yeah it cost him in the end but at the same time its just the thing that a villain would do. win by any means necessary even if you can't win directly.
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like Ortaga in their duel he was getting beaten bad by harry in a contest of wills so he cheated, yeah it cost him in the end but at the same time its just the thing that a villain would do. win by any means necessary even if you can't win directly.
Ortega's a hero; he's willing to cheat, knowing it means his life is forfeit, if only it kills Harry and stops the war.
Heroes and villains are less fun than morally ambiguous characters with sympathy on both sides.
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How about an obcessed collector who wants the rings/knowledge for their collection?
The head of a "employment agency" that deals with the supernatural creatures and people. He/she offered your hero a job, and the hero turned them down. This person doesn't take "no" for an answer, and has decided to send their best contractors after the hero.
In Jewish and Islamic legend there is a group of people called Ibdals/Abdals. There are about 70 of them in the world. They are mortal, but if one falls, another rises.
How about a person who thinks that your hero stole their rightful prize, the Rings of Solomon?
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THAT is really interesting.
I actually have my characters friend as a collector of oddity's who even owns a small museum.. I see how I could actually use your suggestion. Thanks, that will give me a great enemy to work with.
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Glad to be of service, now please write it, and get it published.
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Glad to be of service, now please write it, and get it published.
yes pleas do i am interested in how this works out.
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So, here's the thing. I'm just starting to get into the crux of my short story, and I'm fairly certain that once it's done I'm going to take my main character and start a novel (maybe even a series).
But what the main character is capable of, leaves me without an idea for a villain.
My character has the ability to control demons (particularly the 72 goetic demons of the lesser keys of solomon). He can do this with no strings attached, no moral ramifications and no temptations or his soul going to hell for doing so. He has been gifted/earned the rings of Solomon, and his seat of power is The Solomon, not just because of his adept power, but his mental prowess in understanding things.
But, he's already dealing with dark entities (I'm not looking to turn this into a heaven versus hell situation, I have a completely different series I have planned for that), so what could make a good villain for someone who already deals with (and bitchslaps) evil creatures everyday? Any thoughts would be great.
Sorry if these have already been suggested, but...
For your guy, I like a well-intentioned 'good' character for a villain (or as I prefer, antagonist. They don't always have to be evil.). Evil creatures are not a problem. People with "light" in their souls are obsessive, unpredictable, and powered by beings your hero doesn't necessarily understand.
Suggestions:
* a priest obsessed with saving your hero's soul by stopping him at every turn. This guy could be no more "powerful" than your hero, just more obsessive, and better connected.
* a woman who was terribly wronged by a demon and who sees no difference between them and their summoners. If she doesn't understand your hero's benefit to humanity, she would likely just see him as another witch trying to undermine good people.
* the person or being charged with slowing the flow of demons into this world. They might be seeking a way to cut him off from his power source, or turn the demons against him. Maybe he's related to Charon, and has seen what sort of things demons can do when a mere mortal attempts to control them.
If you insist on having an evil antagonist, I suggest someone with your hero's same abilities, or comparable ones, who abuses the demons. Are your demons necessarily evil? Misunderstood? Not knowing much about the mythos you mentioned, it would be interesting to cause your readers to feel sympathy for the demons - as if your hero knows to respect them, but your villain summons, abuses and disrespects them.
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i can't help but think of how Mark Millar came up with a villain one of his comics
"What if Batman was a [jerk]"
Note: Millar said something faaaaaaar worse than jerk when he said that quote
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Perhaps your already too far into your story development with your main char. With the exception of books where the char. is already defined by previous media most of the best series i have read start with chars. that have no power or no knowledge of thier powers and discover a little as they go and grow and change with the storylines. It sounds like you have a fairly well defined main char, and it sounds like you could write several books just getting the main char to where you have it at. The bad guys could pretty easily flow from the quest to gain the power he has or the need to gain it to overcome them.
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Perhaps your already too far into your story development with your main char. With the exception of books where the char. is already defined by previous media most of the best series i have read start with chars. that have no power or no knowledge of thier powers and discover a little as they go and grow and change with the storylines.
That's because that's the easy way of doing things.
I applaud someone willing to try something harder.
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Thanks neurovore.
I'm not really the kind of person that's interested in introducing someone who doesn't have powers, giving them powers and then telling the story of them learning to use the powers.
I'm much more of "I think I'm gonna throw the reader kicking and screaming into this situation and see if they can fend for themselves." variety of writer. My character already has the power over demons, to manipulate them, to control them. But the question is, how well can he do that? The answer: not very well. I kind of think of him as someone who's been wrangling bulls for a year. Kind of a greenhorn at the doings of it, but competent and confident enough to that it will make for some interesting stories and circumstances.
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i just thought of an interesting villain archetype that you could potentially utilize in the long run of your story. the sidekick gone rough/evil.
now i don't mean that your character needs a sidekick, but if he has a best friend with no powers who is constantly reminded that he is just a squishy human stuck in the middle of all the scary stuff, its bound to cause some rifts in their friendship. especially if he finds away around his own squeamishness that turn him against the lead character. it would take a while for that to develop but well worth it in creating a driven antagonist that knows how your main character thinks and behaves emotionally. a very dangerous person no doubt.
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Who said you need just one villain or a group of villains? Use a combination of antagonists. Maybe there's TWO groups after the hero, one "Light" the other one "Dark" and both willing to go through the hero to complate their objective. Maybe it's a free for all, with every supernatural and mundane insider after the rings. Maybe another supernatural, non-demon is after the rings -- say a Vampire. Or maybe one of the demons has put the word out and arranged for the hero to be taken out so it can take the ring (and control of the other demons) for himself.
Craig
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Here is another one, how about having one of the demons fall in love with him. This creature is not under his complete control, and it causes trouble to get his attention.
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Here is another one, how about having one of the demons fall in love with him. This creature is not under his complete control, and it causes trouble to get his attention.
But why would anyone do a demon human enough to fall in love when interestingly alien demons are so much more fun ?