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The Dresden Files => DFRPG => Topic started by: Ihadris on April 09, 2010, 05:38:52 PM
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Hi all,
Just looking for any advice on vetting the scope of a Thaumaturgy Theme. I've re-read the section of the rules several times and I'm struggling with grasping what would be too broard or too narrow for a theme.
Thoughts?
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Do you have a few themes in mind you'd like to run past us? This might work better as a "workshop".
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Not my topic but I have an example...
I have a Focused Practitioner Terramancer, would Thematic Terramancy be too broad? In my mind that would mean he could do tracking spells with a electromagnetic theme, wards with an earth/electric theme, and craft items to aid him controlling these Earth Forces. I'm concerned this isn't a theme, just a cheat. But for what I have in mind, it doesn't seem much different than the Photomancy example on page 286.
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Actually that sounds fine to me. I'd want to encourage you to have a nice detailed conversation with your GM about what the limitations of Terramantic Rituals are -- what they *can't* do -- so you'll have a clear picture of what the limitations are on that ability. But otherwise, I dig it... no pun intended.
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From glancing through Thaumaturgy types... I can see some obvious thing I could and can't do but one thing interests me. Veils.
Since Veils can bend light to hide things, which light is just part of the electromagnetic spectrum... I could see someone using Earth instead of Spirit to make a Veil
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From glancing through Thaumaturgy types... I can see some obvious thing I could and can't do but one thing interests me. Veils.
Since Veils can bend light to hide things, which light is just part of the electromagnetic spectrum... I could see someone using Earth instead of Spirit to make a Veil
Right, but that's the point at which it feels like you're having to stretch your thinking. (Or maybe it's the other way around -- you're a Magnetomancer, but that means that actually moving earth around is harder for you to conceptualize.)
The way I'd do an earth veil would involve more like "become one with the ground". :)
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Magnetomancer, I like that. I just noticed more things I was doing had to do with electromagnetism/lightning than the Earth itself.
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I think shadowmancy would be cool and fit the cannon stories. Also some kind of beastmaster (don't know a good term) type powers. imagine being able to call a large swarm of rats or roaches on someone. It could be a summoning , control type but focused on animals instead of spirits or demons. I imagine in the city roaches would make great spies and they taste like chicken too. ;)
Cajun Guy
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A quick question on thsi idea could a Picturamancey work? Pictura is Latin for Painting)
Basic theroy would be the character paints a picture of the effect he would like to happening. Then when he wants the effect to happen like a potion) or on completion of the painting/spelling he invests so of this will and, shazam.....
Would this work as a thematic idea?
Could I have Focus items of paint brushes.....
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I love that as an idea for a style of Thaumaturgic ritual, but I'm not 100% sure if I see the limits on it -- putting together a thaumaturgic ritual is a slow effort anyway, and painting might just be one method of that.
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Well in it own rights is that dact that he needs materials to perform any magic limiting enough (specifically drawing/painting materials and a surface, eg Molly can create a Veil on the fly but if the Picturamancor (not sure how to spell this) wanted to create a a veil he would have to draw himself hiding (if he had the materials to do this in the first place)
Is the limitation of limited situational usage enough or till to broad?
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The limitation you just laid out is the division line between Thaumaturgy (which often requires physical components and a ritual area to set up) and Evocation. So mainly I think you've outlined a character who has Thaumaturgy that's expressed through painting, but NOT Evocation. That makes you very versatile, but rarely if ever able to pull things off in the middle of a fight.
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So would that fall under sorcerer as a template? Rather than Focused Practioner?
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So would that fall under sorcerer as a template? Rather than Focused Practioner?
More or less, yeah. Sorcerer sans Evocation. Though maybe it's its own thing. A "Thaumaturgist" template or whatnot, never able to take Evocation, but able to go deep on Refinement.
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i think you could cobine evocation with drawing or writing. it wouldn't be anything other than a different explanation of how it is done. Like the anime where the wizard cats a spell by writing it on a slip of paper. It would be just as Harry shouts fozare but writting it instead of saying it. it probably wouldn't be a game mechanic as much as a flavor to how the person approaches spells. You could say the same for just using hand gestures rather than vocal components.
Let me know if I am remotely on point. ha-ha
CG
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Do you have a few themes in mind you'd like to run past us? This might work better as a "workshop".
One of my players is specialising in Air and Spirit based evocation using the theme of Chi/Ki and I was considering making a complimentary NPC ally or a mirror type rival NPC. I thought perhaps wards, with bonuses for landmine spells that use force or air as the triggered effect, divination with a focus on psychometry & emotional states, and the summoning & binding of Spirits (more along the lines of the Japanese Kami then ghosts). As regards to what would be out, Crafting, Veils, wards with evocation effects outside of the air and spirit specialties and conjuration would receive no bonus.
Generally though when I have thought about how I would respond if a player said to me that they wanted to have a theme releating to one of the elements I havn't been confident about where to draw the line. On the one hand I dont want to give the player too much power but on the other I dont want them to feel like they are being punished for specialising in Thaumaturgy and wanting to keep to a theme.
At what point would you say that a concept is too wide?
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Actully I think this why I have been struggling to find ideas that fit a theme with in the context of the rules.... Is there a way of not quantifying but possibly giving some more guidlines around themes for both rituals and channeling as that would help I think with also working out magic users from other cultures as well.
Cheers
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Okay I was thinking about this over the last couple of days.
From reading the rules over again in details there seems to be 8 types of Thaumaturgy listed: Summoning & Binding, Crafting, Conjuration, Divination, Veils, Transformation & Disruption, Transportation & World Walking and Wards.
The example themes given seem to fall into two catagories: 'wide focus with narrow application' and 'narrow focus with wide application'. Biomancy and Psychomancy seem to be wide focus with narrow application; each having around 3 areas of specialisation (Divination, Transformation & Disruption, Transportation & World Walking for both of them.)
Where as Ectomancy lists all of the thaumaturigcal types but is limited strictly to ghosts. (Discounting Demonic, Fae & other spirits of the Nevernever and Outsiders) Diabolism is a similar example.
Would it then be fair to say that the wider the application of theme to the thaumaturigcal types the more limited the situations that grant the bonus become?
Ihadris
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Would it then be fair to say that the wider the application of theme to the thaumaturigcal types the more limited the situations that grant the bonus become?
Nice detective work, Ihadris. I don't know if we deliberately thought about it that way (we were trying to document what we knew of implicitly and explicitly from the series), but I think you're on to something there.
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Nice detective work, Ihadris. I don't know if we deliberately thought about it that way (we were trying to document what we knew of implicitly and explicitly from the series), but I think you're on to something there.
Thanks very much! I just needed some sort of a balancing structure straight in my head so I could say yay or nay to potential themes from my players. I realise through reading a lot of the threads that your already adding in it a lot more of the notes in the margin but this could be worth a mention.
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Thank you this really helped the character development:
Here is how the Picturamancer ended up
After ages of trying to do this we found a nice simple solution, the character can use Performance to make declerations during the ritual phase to tag it for the ritual, flavour wise this can include mixing ingrediants into the paint etc....
Its a nice thematic work around driven of the characters High aspect, and easily usable as well by a Focused Practioner, The Character has the ability to work only effects that he can paint so Wards which can be painted onto any surface of the building or hung in a suitable venue, Summoning and binding (which works in a really cool way the Canvas is placed inside a ring of Copper Frame and then the summoned creature is bound to its 'image' as drawn by the character...), and Crafting (this includes special paints, not potions that allow certain effect, focus item paint brushes... you get the idea)
Any way I hope this helps with your idea it took a while to get the balance right with this character but now very very happy with it.....
The only other thought we did have and where we then started to struggle if you could use an Stunt to replace Lore with Performance, in a way of 'feeling' the spell through his art, making it more of an Art than a science, however had no way of really setting conditions of the trappings of the Lore Skill and struggled with it for ages, and in the end the decleration just felt better... However if you can see a way that this would work it would make a real difference to the character as he is just creating magic with no Lore, meaning he will be unaware of what the consequences would be.... a great hook early on...
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I'm glad it helped Korwin, your character turned out awesome! I love the idea of sealing summoned creatures into the painting.
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I'm glad it helped Korwin, your character turned out awesome! I love the idea of sealing summoned creatures into the painting.
Hmm? I heard my name invoked...?