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McAnally's (The Community Pub) => Author Craft => Topic started by: kingaling on March 13, 2009, 06:58:16 PM

Title: Anyone have good tips on writing a Conspiracy Thriller?
Post by: kingaling on March 13, 2009, 06:58:16 PM

I'm putting together a supernatural storyline that is based on an Assassin who's also a Sorcerer. Does anyone have any tips on what a Conspiracy Thriller should contain. I'm hoping to make this similar The Jason Bourne Series and could use some tips from people who've been there, or are struggling through something the same. Any tips would be of great help. Thanks.

Title: Re: Anyone have good tips on writing a Conspiracy Thriller?
Post by: ballplayer72 on March 13, 2009, 09:18:02 PM

speaking strictly as an audience member, to me the mark of a good conspiracy thriller is the ability to figure it out before the main character.   However this has to be balanced otherwise it makes your novel lame.   For example:  Fight Club

(click to show/hide)

you didn't really know that Ed Norton was Brad Pitt and vice versa until the very end.  However in movie tyler pops up in multiple flashes.  And the narration passes tyler and follows him a bit when ed norton says :if you lose x number of hours etc. etc. when you wake up there could you be a different person?   When i first saw the movie I thought to myself "would'nt it be nuts if he was like werewolfing into brad pitt?  that would be crazy."  but i didn't KNOW or even have real proof until the end.   thats how it should work

Title: Re: Anyone have good tips on writing a Conspiracy Thriller?
Post by: meg_evonne on March 14, 2009, 12:56:57 AM

Quote from: kingaling on March 13, 2009, 06:58:16 PM

Does anyone have any tips on what a Conspiracy Thriller should contain.

uhmm  a good conspiracy?  sorry I'm in a snarky mood tonight.  Seriously, I've been a Deighton, Fleming, Ludlum, McInness, Follett, Brown, Clancy etc fan all my life.  In this genre--you either got the smarts or you don't. 

Oh and an incredible sense of place and the ability to share it in exciting dialog and description. 
An overwhelming ability to build and hold tension by the brilliance of your intellect. 
The ability to write action scenes that rock and never get boring.
The smarts to always stay one step ahead of your very intelligent readers.
Entertaining your readers while at the same time you thumb your nose in front of their face--and make them smile in the process because you are so brilliant.

That all leads back to the same thing...  brilliance in writing and a smart, snarky mind.  There is no way to fake it.  There is no way to stick things together with duck tape and think it will sail. 

Now, how do you physically do that?  Go to top and read ALL those books.  If you've done that and are still wondering what makes this kind of book work?  ..... better pick another genre.  This even has a cliff notes version... movies.  Again, if you can't chart it out in a movie.... better pick another genre. 

Good luck with all that!  :-) 

Title: Re: Anyone have good tips on writing a Conspiracy Thriller?
Post by: kingaling on March 14, 2009, 08:06:05 PM

uh..well. Yeah! Of course I need to know those things...but that's why I asked for tips. Like a guide to writing it. There are plenty of guides to writing standard mystery stories, but Conspiracy Thriller's have a lot more to them. That's why I was hoping for some details, not just vague "you need to know how to do this and that.." response.

Title: Re: Anyone have good tips on writing a Conspiracy Thriller?
Post by: Paynesgrey on March 14, 2009, 08:21:05 PM

Don't Twist just to have a twist.  Any twists, doublecrosses, etc, have to have some valid reason other than "Oh, shit!  I need to have a clever twist!"  Good guys gone bad, bad guys gone good, all have to have a compelling reason(s) which have been subtley worked into the story.  For a character to believably change their stripes, it's got to be through development that is at least quietly mentioned, rather than a sudden "oh, snoggfarblers ate his first daughter 40 years ago.  Didn't anybody but me know that until now?"

At all costs avoid "Hey, Anakin?  Ya wanna be evil?" "ummnn..no."  "C'mon, let's be evil. C'monnnnn." "Um...ok."

Title: Re: Anyone have good tips on writing a Conspiracy Thriller?
Post by: Blaze on March 14, 2009, 08:36:25 PM

Make the Antagonist SMART.  I really can't stand it when the bad guys act like idiots just so that the good guy can win. 

Title: Re: Anyone have good tips on writing a Conspiracy Thriller?
Post by: Paynesgrey on March 14, 2009, 08:41:11 PM

I think that's one of the hardest parts.  An author just can't create a character who's smarter than they are.  Might manage the illusion from time to time, but not a whole cast.

Title: Re: Anyone have good tips on writing a Conspiracy Thriller?
Post by: Blaze on March 14, 2009, 08:58:45 PM

Yes, you can write a character who is smarter than you are!  You have to cheat a little and get input from people who know more about a field than you do.  (For example, when I write a doctor character, I always discuss what she does with my family GP.) 

Since my background is in technical writing, I know that one can immerse oneself in a subject and be able to come across with a great deal of authority, even if you have not personally had first hand experience.

But mostly I was stating that when you have bad guys who suddenly shoot each other or act out of character in some way, simply ecause you need the plot to move along, that makes for a lame thriller.

How many people have just wanted the bad guy to blow Bond away instead of talking him to death?  Or, why in the world did the Emperor not realize that Vader might have his own agenda? 

Smart bad guys are difficult to write.  Smart likable bad guys are even more difficult to write.  But the rewards in having a smart likable evil dude is immeasurable.  And that would make for superior fiction.

Title: Re: Anyone have good tips on writing a Conspiracy Thriller?
Post by: Paynesgrey on March 14, 2009, 09:01:34 PM

Let me clarify that...I don't mean knowledge in a field smart, but cleverness smart, the general brain meat capability type of smart.

Title: Re: Anyone have good tips on writing a Conspiracy Thriller?
Post by: Blaze on March 14, 2009, 11:11:50 PM

Yeah, well the benefit is that the hero and villain will both be constrained by the author's smarts.  So they will be on a level playing field.  ;D

Title: Re: Anyone have good tips on writing a Conspiracy Thriller?
Post by: Paynesgrey on March 14, 2009, 11:26:53 PM

Lol.  There is that, isn't there?  Of course, that's what makes a smart author a better read than a not-so-smart author. 

Title: Re: Anyone have good tips on writing a Conspiracy Thriller?
Post by: Blaze on March 15, 2009, 12:07:15 AM

You hit the nail on the head.

Title: Re: Anyone have good tips on writing a Conspiracy Thriller?
Post by: meg_evonne on March 16, 2009, 07:40:48 PM

Sorry I was so snarky in my first reply.  Blaze has it right.

Start out with your conspiracy base line plot (what is the bad guy's plan) and then shade in how the protaganist is going to weave in and out.  That's probably the best plan. 

The more intricate, well thought out, logical, devious--but only when it really furthers the baddies' plot, the better the hero will be. 

So start with a solid evil plot, with really interesting intelligent bad guys with motivation*--once it's iron clad and logical, then start foiling the attempt.  Does that make sense?  The additional shading would come from how the bad guys adapt to the hero's foils.

I'm currently working on a DaVinci Code for young adult, which I hope to have in someone's hands by April 15th.  It's thrilling and exciting.  That's how I came up with it.  Once your mind is working in a conspiracy fashion then it's a matter of figuring out how the hero pulls it apart to get the end mind-blowing last confrontation.

*don't overlook that the first motivation is never a single motivation but several.  The bad guys will each have their own motivations for being involved.  PLUS the best twist is when we find out a secret motivation of the main bad guy, who has kept the motivation secret from his own left hand person. --Those are the ones where only the psychopathic readers understand the psychopathic motivation (uhm think Hannibal Lecher) OR some classic books of this type--the motivation seems sound, but even the main bad guy doesn't understand his/her own unknown deep seated psychological motivation for doing the deed... 

Or another twist, 3/4s of the way through the bad guys (or one bad guy) realize(s) that their motivations are diverging from each other. So a hero vs bad guy, becomes a complicated mesh of hero vs bad guy vs bad guy--forcing an unlikely hero/bad guy alliance.  Yeah that would be a cool one too!  (hasn't 24 used this one?)  The reverse would be just as likely in real life.  hero and hero helper vs bad guy and the hero helper realizes that his motivation is going to drive him/her over to the bad guy's side, whether the bad guy knows it or not...

heck I could keep going on those for forever and ever.....  oh and don't forget.. MUST HAVE TICKING CLOCK DEADLINE!

Yeah, those would hook me in...

Title: Re: Anyone have good tips on writing a Conspiracy Thriller?
Post by: LizW65 on March 16, 2009, 08:38:25 PM

Just remember, the best bad guys always think they're the good guys!

Title: Re: Anyone have good tips on writing a Conspiracy Thriller?
Post by: meg_evonne on March 16, 2009, 09:07:18 PM

Way to go Liz!!  ditto that thought!

Title: Re: Anyone have good tips on writing a Conspiracy Thriller?
Post by: kingaling on March 17, 2009, 02:32:12 AM

Actually Liz, gotta disagree with you on that one. If you've ever seen The Crow (the first one with Brandon Lee) the main villain Top Dollar is my favorite movie villain of all time, and he does not think of himself in any way as a good person. He actively causes the destruction of things and lives.

Title: Re: Anyone have good tips on writing a Conspiracy Thriller?
Post by: Blaze on March 17, 2009, 03:19:56 AM

But he feels entitled.  And that is not a thriller.  I think the Crow is far deeper in action adventure than thriller.

Title: Re: Anyone have good tips on writing a Conspiracy Thriller?
Post by: thausgt on March 17, 2009, 05:46:51 AM

Quote from: meg_evonne on March 16, 2009, 07:40:48 PM

Start out with your conspiracy base line plot (what is the bad guy's plan) and then shade in how the protaganist is going to weave in and out.  That's probably the best plan.

 

One suggestion on how the protagonist can get dragged (or enticed) into the fun is to imagine the plan going off perfectly... and then deciding on where, how and why the plan can break. Then see how well you can involve the protagonist. For example, if the plan requires three henchmen riding three identical breed/size/color horses to be at a particular location at a particular time, replace one of them with the protagonist (as his/her horse happens to fit the bill perfectly) as the scheduled henchman was in an instantly-fatal riding accident.

The traditional method of involving the hero is a death. It's not quite a cliche, in and of itself, because let's be honest: when someone you care about has been murdered, it's an excellent excuse to stick your nose in. But never forget that what makes it a cliche is how you write it.

Quote from: meg_evonne on March 16, 2009, 07:40:48 PM

The more intricate, well thought out, logical, devious--but only when it really furthers the baddies' plot, the better the hero will be. 

So start with a solid evil plot, with really interesting intelligent bad guys with motivation*--once it's iron clad and logical, then start foiling the attempt.  Does that make sense?  The additional shading would come from how the bad guys adapt to the hero's foils.

I'd toss in a thought from method acting (or RPGs, depending on your tastes). If you can create fully-realized characters for the villains (plural is deliberate), you can also figure out what they would overlook or misinterpret. It works best if it's a genuine character flaw, in that they ignore something that would have put the hero in their clutches because of a prejudice or phobia or something similar. Building their failures on the lack of a particular fact or set of same slides dangerously close to what's known as a Vizzini Gambit (named for the character in "Princess Bride" who thinks he's the smartest player in the game but is fatally incorrect). Check it out http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VizziniGambit (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VizziniGambit), but be wary: tropes can ruin your life.

Quote from: meg_evonne on March 16, 2009, 07:40:48 PM

*don't overlook that the first motivation is never a single motivation but several.  The bad guys will each have their own motivations for being involved.  PLUS the best twist is when we find out a secret motivation of the main bad guy, who has kept the motivation secret from his own left hand person. --Those are the ones where only the psychopathic readers understand the psychopathic motivation (uhm think Hannibal Lecher) OR some classic books of this type--the motivation seems sound, but even the main bad guy doesn't understand his/her own unknown deep seated psychological motivation for doing the deed...

 

If you can imagine the villains really clearly, then try imagining the circumstances that brought them all together to form the plot. It sounds a little too "Legion of DOOM - We are evil!(tm)", but it might also help clarify their personalities, motivations, and so on. Perhaps one of your villains IS a villain in their own right, but another honestly believes that the plot will benefit the world (or whomever that particular character cares for). This might be a conflict that the protagonist could use to his/her advantage.

Quote from: meg_evonne on March 16, 2009, 07:40:48 PM

Or another twist, 3/4s of the way through the bad guys (or one bad guy) realize(s) that their motivations are diverging from each other. So a hero vs bad guy, becomes a complicated mesh of hero vs bad guy vs bad guy--forcing an unlikely hero/bad guy alliance.  Yeah that would be a cool one too!  (hasn't 24 used this one?)  The reverse would be just as likely in real life.  hero and hero helper vs bad guy and the hero helper realizes that his motivation is going to drive him/her over to the bad guy's side, whether the bad guy knows it or not...

Good idea! You're trying to write a conspiracy story, so things will get complicated. I suggest starting with a fairly straightforward story (the villains' plans falling into place like clockwork), then adding complications at a rate you can handle (involve just the hero, diverge one of the top villains from the rest of the cabal, set one of the second- or third-tier henchmen to personally eliminate the hero, etc.) Experiment with inflicting circumstances on the story that neither the hero nor the villains could have anticipated; I'm thinking of Hurricane Katrina's effect on Dean Koontz' "Frankenstein" series, here, as he had set it in New Orleans from just before 2006. Who knows? It'll probably take the hero by surprise, but the villains might even be able to accellerate their plans...

Quote from: meg_evonne on March 16, 2009, 07:40:48 PM

heck I could keep going on those for forever and ever.....  oh and don't forget.. MUST HAVE TICKING CLOCK DEADLINE!

Yeah, those would hook me in...

Yup, me too. Nothing like time-pressure to force all involved parties to greatness... or foolhardy stunts.

Good luck, and please keep us posted!