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McAnally's (The Community Pub) => Author Craft => Topic started by: Matrix Refugee (formerly Morraeon) on January 07, 2009, 09:35:51 PM
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I'm working on another urban fantasy story, and I'm creating a mildly magically gifted teen witch character who's of the "fluffy-bunny" Wiccan variety, ie. the sort who's read Silver Ravenwolf a few times too many, and now thinks they're the Goddess's gift of sweetness and light to the universe. The plot requires her to have a kind of evaluation by a veteran magical practitioner who's a bit of a polite religious skeptic. I'm trying to figure out a way for the polite skeptic to bring our girl back down to earth, in such a way that it doesn't look like I'm bashing Wicca, or that the skeptic isn't a mean guy, he's just trying to give her a more realistic view of magic (ie. that it can't fix everything, and it shouldn't be used when practical common garden things can be used with greater and more lasting effect), and that our girl really is a good kid who means well, but who still has a *lot* to learn. Any and all suggestions will be greatly and gratefully appreciated!
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I'm working on another urban fantasy story, and I'm creating a mildly magically gifted teen witch character who's of the "fluffy-bunny" Wiccan variety, ie. the sort who's read Silver Ravenwolf a few times too many, and now thinks they're the Goddess's gift of sweetness and light to the universe. The plot requires her to have a kind of evaluation by a veteran magical practitioner who's a bit of a polite religious skeptic. I'm trying to figure out a way for the polite skeptic to bring our girl back down to earth, in such a way that it doesn't look like I'm bashing Wicca, or that the skeptic isn't a mean guy, he's just trying to give her a more realistic view of magic (ie. that it can't fix everything, and it shouldn't be used when practical common garden things can be used with greater and more lasting effect), and that our girl really is a good kid who means well, but who still has a *lot* to learn. Any and all suggestions will be greatly and gratefully appreciated!
Having that sort of conversation seems likely to be a difficult line for the mentor to walk, between not actually getting through her convictions in re how the universe works on one hand, and not being mean or reading to her as mean on the other. Were I that mentor, I would try to arrange relatively small demonstrations of the principle - preferably in ways that don't cost anyone too much - and wait for the student to start querying them herself before starting the conversation; though I can see Plot Happening in such a way as to force that before they were ready, and a demonstration on that scale going wrong because she tries to intervene, from the wrong direction, and makes it much worse, is what my hindbrain then immediately thinks.
What POV are you writing this from ? I can see it being immense fun to do first-person girl, because of the challenge of getting the sceptic's views and reactions clearly across to the reader without the girl actually reading them correctly, but that may also just be me.
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What POV are you writing this from ? I can see it being immense fun to do first-person girl, because of the challenge of getting the sceptic's views and reactions clearly across to the reader without the girl actually reading them correctly, but that may also just be me.
I'm thinking of running it from the skeptic's viewpoint, mostly because it's easier to write, since, while I the writer deeply respect Wicca and what it means, I tend to be a bit guarded around the "fluffy-bunny" types. But it might be more fun to write it from the girl's POV, since it would be fun to have her go through the usual teenaged "U MEENIE! HOW DAR U DIZAGRE WIT MEEEeeee!!!!!!!1111" kind of thinking, and then have her thinking mature a little by the end of the story.
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I'm thinking of running it from the skeptic's viewpoint, mostly because it's easier to write, since, while I the writer deeply respect Wicca and what it means, I tend to be a bit guarded around the "fluffy-bunny" types. But it might be more fun to write it from the girl's POV, since it would be fun to have her go through the usual teenaged "U MEENIE! HOW DAR U DIZAGRE WIT MEEEeeee!!!!!!!1111" kind of thinking, and then have her thinking mature a little by the end of the story.
Do a Molly.
Have her screw up in such a way that the mentor HAS to bail her out.
Then....have the screw up be because of her worldview, or rather, her inability to process anything OUTSIDE of her worldview.
Then have the mentor tell her some home truths, possibly over a cup of tea....
My suggestion is to avoid having her come out with the mentor's exact opinion though, otherwise it looks like brainwashing.
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Do a Molly.
Have her screw up in such a way that the mentor HAS to bail her out.
Then....have the screw up be because of her worldview, or rather, her inability to process anything OUTSIDE of her worldview.
Then have the mentor tell her some home truths, possibly over a cup of tea....
My suggestion is to avoid having her come out with the mentor's exact opinion though, otherwise it looks like brainwashing.
Heh... I'm actually thinking of having a love potion involved somehow. I've flipped through Silver RavenWolf's "Teen Witch" (eurgh... I want that ten minutes of my life back. While she does a good job describing things in terms teens can understand, every level-headed Wiccan friend of mine has called it "how *NOT* to teach Wicca to young people") and while the love spells aren't right on page one, she certainly doesn't keep them on the lowdown, either. I'm seeing the girl -- let's call her Sarah SilverRaven for obvious reasons -- consider the skeptic who confronts her, to be a jerk all along, even at the end when she starts to grasp what he's trying to tell her, but that she finally does start to realize grudgingly that he's got a point.
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Heh... I'm actually thinking of having a love potion involved somehow. I've flipped through Silver RavenWolf's "Teen Witch" (eurgh... I want that ten minutes of my life back. While she does a good job describing things in terms teens can understand, every level-headed Wiccan friend of mine has called it "how *NOT* to teach Wicca to young people") and while the love spells aren't right on page one, she certainly doesn't keep them on the lowdown, either. I'm seeing the girl -- let's call her Sarah SilverRaven for obvious reasons -- consider the skeptic who confronts her, to be a jerk all along, even at the end when she starts to grasp what he's trying to tell her, but that she finally does start to realize grudgingly that he's got a point.
The best love potion backfire is in 'The Craft', where the guy not only loves her, he becomes OBSESSED with her, to the point I think he tries to assult her.
I suppose the other point is how you have your mentor and character interact...you don't want them to come off 2-D.
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I suppose the other point is how you have your mentor and character interact...you don't want them to come off 2-D.
Mm, especially since I'm trying to keep this story from turning into a novel. :: Laughs, gently::
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Do a Molly.
Have her screw up in such a way that the mentor HAS to bail her out.
Then....have the screw up be because of her worldview, or rather, her inability to process anything OUTSIDE of her worldview.
Then have the mentor tell her some home truths, possibly over a cup of tea....
My suggestion is to avoid having her come out with the mentor's exact opinion though, otherwise it looks like brainwashing.
I agree with Sabre, she has to royally screw up with magic for the best possible reason. Maybe point out that she doesn't know anything much.
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I agree with Sabre, she has to royally screw up with magic for the best possible reason. Maybe point out that she doesn't know anything much.
There was a Merceded Lackey story, and it had a minor character who was a very powerful pyschic. She also believed that everything just needed a big hug to be ok....ie evil creatures weren't really evil, just misunderstood.
The character talking to her was reflecting it was only this woman's very large amount of power that had prevented her from a rude awakening.
I believe the character is later eaten by an evil spiritual entity.
My point is, her worldview sounds very similar to the one you want your teen witch to have, so maybe you could do something like that?
Have her summon something she can't control...and have it nearly eat her...all because she THOUGHT it wasn't really 'bad', just 'mizunderstoods'.
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There was a Merceded Lackey story, and it had a minor character who was a very powerful pyschic. She also believed that everything just needed a big hug to be ok....ie evil creatures weren't really evil, just misunderstood.
The character talking to her was reflecting it was only this woman's very large amount of power that had prevented her from a rude awakening.
I believe the character is later eaten by an evil spiritual entity.
My point is, her worldview sounds very similar to the one you want your teen witch to have, so maybe you could do something like that?
Have her summon something she can't control...and have it nearly eat her...all because she THOUGHT it wasn't really 'bad', just 'mizunderstoods'.
:: Snerks:: Bolding mind, and that's pretty much the worldview of the fluffy-bunnies. I've actually got another story on the back-burner with a similar plot line, but I might use this. Wonder if there's some way that she summons some kind of love god/dess or something like it and the critter gets out of hand, as I'm still working from the love spell-gone-awry angle.
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:: Snerks:: Bolding mind, and that's pretty much the worldview of the fluffy-bunnies. I've actually got another story on the back-burner with a similar plot line, but I might use this. Wonder if there's some way that she summons some kind of love god/dess or something like it and the critter gets out of hand, as I'm still working from the love spell-gone-awry angle.
Well, depending on how 'fluffy' you want it, why not a love elemental?? :)
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Well, depending on how 'fluffy' you want it, why not a love elemental?? :)
HAH! Perfect. I think I have everything now but the "I warned you about this sort of thing..."/"But itz just mizunderstood!!1111" conversation between our girl and her mentor, but that's something I'll have to work on.
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HAH! Perfect. I think I have everything now but the "I warned you about this sort of thing..."/"But itz just mizunderstood!!1111" conversation between our girl and her mentor, but that's something I'll have to work on.
Glad I could help....good luck!! :)
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HAH! Perfect. I think I have everything now but the "I warned you about this sort of thing..."/"But itz just mizunderstood!!1111" conversation between our girl and her mentor, but that's something I'll have to work on.
But it turns into a Lust elemental. ;D
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But it turns into a Lust elemental. ;D
You read my mind :: Eeeeevil smirk::
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Being an older guy who's been doing 'all this' for quite a while, your scenario sounds far, far too damn familiar! Have the kid bring up an ancient God/dess of Love, or a Love/Lust 'Elemental'(?!) would be fine, especially if you made the being true to =ITS= 'time and place'! "Love" as we know it =today= is =not= the same as it was in the past, especially the 'far past'. What kids think of today, with all the crap on TV and romance novels, is just as foreign to entities of ancient times as some of the stuff on the SciFi channel is to us. Not necessarily "better" or "worse" - just different.
For example, wasn't one of the Near Eastern goddesses, Inanna?, the Goddess of both Love =and= War? How would that square with little Miss Fluff-Bunny's 'world-view'? ::) Even if you didn't make the 'magical entity' "authentic" (whatever the hell that is), it could still trigger one hell of a 'reality check'! ;D
Uncle Draggi
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For example, wasn't one of the Near Eastern goddesses, Inanna?, the Goddess of both Love =and= War? How would that square with little Miss Fluff-Bunny's 'world-view'? ::) Even if you didn't make the 'magical entity' "authentic" (whatever the hell that is), it could still trigger one hell of a 'reality check'! ;D
Uncle Draggi
Ooh yeah, that would also include Astarte/Ashtaroth/Ishtar (or however it's spelled), whom the fluffy-bunnies have horribly warped into the "Goddyss uv LURVE N WYMYN'S YMPOAHMYNT!!1111" (Women's empowerment, for those not familiar with fluffeese, since they seem to like to spell things wierdly. Somehow spelling "women" with a "Y" in place of the vowels is more feminine and "less offensive". I find it an offense to the rules of good spelling). :: Rubs hands gleefully, the eeevil thoughts getting more eeeeeeevil::
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Or she could someone like eros/cupid who forces people to fall in love. I always found that a bit twisted
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Ooh yeah, that would also include Astarte/Ashtaroth/Ishtar (or however it's spelled), whom the fluffy-bunnies have horribly warped into the "Goddyss uv LURVE N WYMYN'S YMPOAHMYNT!!1111" (Women's empowerment, for those not familiar with fluffeese, since they seem to like to spell things wierdly. Somehow spelling "women" with a "Y" in place of the vowels is more feminine and "less offensive". I find it an offense to the rules of good spelling). :: Rubs hands gleefully, the eeevil thoughts getting more eeeeeeevil::
Even better, instead of a 'love elemental' she summons a succubus!!! :)
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For example, wasn't one of the Near Eastern goddesses, Inanna?, the Goddess of both Love =and= War? How would that square with little Miss Fluff-Bunny's 'world-view'? ::)
Uncle Draggi
re-read Midsummer's Night Dream as another option, although I like the Goddess of Love and War. What a juicy, lovely, thought provoking ideal and not far from reality...... :-)
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re-read Midsummer's Night Dream as another option, although I like the Goddess of Love and War. What a juicy, lovely, thought provoking ideal and not far from reality...... :-)
I guess the motto of Astarte, Inanna, and (I think) the Morrigan would be "Make love *AND* war."
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Nah, love is war and from Smallville, "and you get to sleep with the enemy" :D
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Maybe you should have her run up against a Ganconer, a nasty denizen of Faery that likes to seduce young women. It could be the male version of a Leansidhe, which in legend sucks the vialiaty out of its human lovers.
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Maybe you should have her run up against a Ganconer, a nasty denizen of Faery that likes to seduce young women. It could be the male version of a Leansidhe, which in legend sucks the vialiaty out of its human lovers.
I was aiming towards an incubus, but this is an even better idea, since a lot of the fluffies tend to be into "faery magick", whilst forgetting that the faery are all too often not exactly like Tinkerbell...
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On the topic of grounding her worldview without insulting the Wiccan faith as a whole, your best bet is to have the skeptic be at least somewhat knowledgeable about a more rounded view of it, so that he will be able to poke holes into her warped logic.
How intelligent is this bunny character? I mean, when i hear fluffy-bunny "hug's can heal everything" type, my mind goes immediately to the airheaded moonbeam slightly vacant look in the eyes stereotype. If she is too dense it will be hard for her to follow his rational long enough for it to seep in (but that might give some humorous opportunity for him to have to internally force patience on himself; counting to ten, etc) but if she's too smart, she may have already worked up a more elaborate justification system for herself.
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I was aiming towards an incubus, but this is an even better idea, since a lot of the fluffies tend to be into "faery magick", whilst forgetting that the faery are all too often not exactly like Tinkerbell...
Perhaps even have her 'worship' the fae to an extent...you know, like the goths who worship vampires? Call them 'the lonely ones' and think they've been ostracised by society.
A fae 'fangurl', is what I'm getting at.....possibly even have it manipulate her, so she gets herself in deeper while thinking it's her friend...before her bubble is burst.??
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Perhaps even have her 'worship' the fae to an extent...you know, like the goths who worship vampires? Call them 'the lonely ones' and think they've been ostracised by society.
A fae 'fangurl', is what I'm getting at.....possibly even have it manipulate her, so she gets herself in deeper while thinking it's her friend...before her bubble is burst.??
I like that. She goes all off on the fairy blessings and and midnight dancing and whatnot, thinking they are all happy little lgihts that have nothing better to do that help her with all things in her life great and small, not realizing there is a balance and a price to everything. Then gets ahold of a real spell that is way out of her league... Plot ensues.
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I like that. She goes all off on the fairy blessings and and midnight dancing and whatnot, thinking they are all happy little lgihts that have nothing better to do that help her with all things in her life great and small, not realizing there is a balance and a price to everything. Then gets ahold of a real spell that is way out of her league... Plot ensues.
Hmm.. I like it.
May I keep it?
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Hmm.. I like it.
May I keep it?
:) Fine by me, unless Morraeon wants it. Her (his?) thread and all.
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:) Fine by me, unless Morraeon wants it. Her (his?) thread and all.
Damn it, they got me with their legal mumbo jumbo.
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How intelligent is this bunny character? I mean, when i hear fluffy-bunny "hug's can heal everything" type, my mind goes immediately to the airheaded moonbeam slightly vacant look in the eyes stereotype. If she is too dense it will be hard for her to follow his rational long enough for it to seep in (but that might give some humorous opportunity for him to have to internally force patience on himself; counting to ten, etc) but if she's too smart, she may have already worked up a more elaborate justification system for herself.
She's basically a well-meaning kid who doesn't know any better at this point, think of Molly tweaking with her friends' free will before she found out it was Anything But the Right Thing to Do, or like Susan trying to get an interview with a vampire, not knowing that "the vampire jumps across the table and bites you before you even get the tape-recorder turned on" (I know I'm munging that quote. :: laughs:: ). She's intelligent, but not brainy, a little smarter than the typical teenaged airhead witchy-wannabe, with the potential to grow, even if at times she's not fully willing or aware that she is.
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Hmm.. I like it.
May I keep it?
Hee, go right ahead! Your execution of the concept is yours, and my execution is mine. Concepts really aren't copyrightable, though the executions thereof are. Case in point the crazy story of Sophia Stewart suing James Cameron (of "The Terminator" fame) and the Wachowski Brothers (who created the "Matrix" series) because they'd written robot apocalypses that dimly resembled a robot apocalypse she'd written (and then she neglected to show up for the hearing on the case). And for that matter, the robot apocalypse idea dates back to the 1920s and Czech writer Karel Capek's stage play "R.U.R. (Rossum's Universal Robots)"; haven't heard of his estate taking umbrage with subsequent stories that deal with the same concept.
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She's basically a well-meaning kid who doesn't know any better at this point, think of Molly tweaking with her friends' free will before she found out it was Anything But the Right Thing to Do, or like Susan trying to get an interview with a vampire, not knowing that "the vampire jumps across the table and bites you before you even get the tape-recorder turned on" (I know I'm munging that quote. :: laughs:: ). She's intelligent, but not brainy, a little smarter than the typical teenaged airhead witchy-wannabe, with the potential to grow, even if at times she's not fully willing or aware that she is.
Cool. Then yes at some point your skeptic will have to sit her down and (if he were me) ask her to explain her beliefs, and then start pointing out the contractions (much like harry to murphy on the bible in the beginning of wn). Once he has shaken her loose from her adolescent infallibility, she will be much more likely to be receptive to guidance. But I do agree with the others that it will probably take a screw-up on her part to make her willing sit down and really examine things like that. Basically, life shows her that she went wrong, skeptic explains to her where she went wrong, and then they just have to figure out what the right way is.
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Cool. Then yes at some point your skeptic will have to sit her down and (if he were me) ask her to explain her beliefs, and then start pointing out the contractions (much like harry to murphy on the bible in the beginning of wn). Once he has shaken her loose from her adolescent infallibility, she will be much more likely to be receptive to guidance. But I do agree with the others that it will probably take a screw-up on her part to make her willing sit down and really examine things like that. Basically, life shows her that she went wrong, skeptic explains to her where she went wrong, and then they just have to figure out what the right way is.
It would also be neat when the creature shows up again, she can see if for what it really is, and she works is over.
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I'm trying to figure out a way for the polite skeptic to bring our girl back down to earth, in such a way that it doesn't look like I'm bashing Wicca...
While she does a good job describing things in terms teens can understand, every level-headed Wiccan friend of mine has called it "how *NOT* to teach Wicca to young people"...
Right there is the answer...write it the way your gut tells you, then set up a panel of Wiccan beta readers to constructively criticize your story; don't be afraid to ask if they have come across their own fluffy-bunny Wicca Wannabes or worse...those whose only knowledge of Wicca comes from watching Bewitched or Charmed.