Rules of The World You Create: Need Assistance

[Uilos]

A few months ago, I wrote a thread up here asking for advice about establishing the rules of a supernatural world in a contemporary setting. After alot of thinking, I actually came up with some. I would like your opinions/questions on them just so I can iron them out.

Now, the story revolves around a side-type of human called "Alts". This race has been around as long as man and have been revered literally as gods and monsters, depending on the who and where. In the beginning, they were the megalomaniacal gods, like Cronus and the Titans, the Aztec gods who demanded people be flayed alive, the warring tribes of africa and the Americas being lead by different shamans and medicine men and the works. After The Flood (Noah's Flood for you western religions), the Alts were diminished, and their power became more localized, and their influence on normal people lessened

After the Flood, the Alts established these four rules in order to survive. Working backwards, they are:

   The fourth law is the Law of the Gate. An Alt cannot reverse the flow of life. Everything has it’s time and then must die and go back through the Gate.
   The third law is the Law of the Collar. An Alt cannot, through their power, bind another human being, living or dead. Free Will is the gift of all mankind.
   The second law is the Law of the Blade. An Alt cannot, through their power, kill another human being, except in a formal Challenge.
   And the First Law: The Law of The Shadows. Normal Humans can never know of our existence.
All other laws are waived if The First Law is threatened.

Any questions or comments are appreciated.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

Any questions or comments are appreciated.

First query to occur to me; how consistent are they in enforcing these laws, and are differences of opinion in interpreting them something you can use to generate conflict ?

[Uilos]

First query to occur to me; how consistent are they in enforcing these laws, and are differences of opinion in interpreting them something you can use to generate conflict ?

The laws are upheld at a constant. After the several eons of upholding the laws, it's almost become second nature to sense when somone had been killed or bound by one of their own (often like a cat being dangled over a bath). And every person who has defied the laws has died either through the community or through some unfortunate accident.

The conflict in the story comes from the fact that the current generation is not completely aware/compliant with the laws, and that has driven a wedge between them and the older generation. The other conflict is that one group is outright breaking the laws. They've killed, they've bound others through a drug that breaks the fourth law as well, and they are doing alot of it to and around humans. The elder generation, for all their bluster, is scared of the group and the younger generation does not know/care what to do

[crihavoc]

Uilos, if you don't mind, I'd like to throw in some thoughts -

Based upon your initial post, I think there are some specific points about the Alts that you need to further define before this supernatural addition to our world gains real coherence:

- You state that Alts are "side-type humans... a race that's been around as long as man."  I'd say the first thing you need to define is, what makes Alts different from human kind? What is the supernatural ability that allows them to masquerade as gods?  Does each Alt have the same type of power, but in varying degrees of strength?  Or, does this power manifest itself in different ways, due to differences unique to each Alt?

- Based on your description, it seems that the Alts are pretty well dispersed across the face of the world.  But, the four laws are immutable and concrete, identically, for every Alt, no matter what country or continent?  So, how does this work?  The inference is that all the Alts can communicate with each other, effortlessly in real time, in order for them to function as a society across these broad distances.  Each Alt must blend into their "home" culture... does that culture influence their world view, or are they so detached that the identities they occupy as they live in Africa or Japan or Norway, etc. are fully a disguise? I guess what I'm trying to ask is, can you define how do the Alts interact, and just how much of humanity has each individual Alt allowed to gain root inside themselves... and, how much of this splinter of humanity are they forced to hide from their peers?

- Finally, the younger generation of Alts... have they reached this disconnection point with the previous generation through some physical malady?  If the Alt can communicate across differences, they must rely on this skill to initiate new Alts, and school their progeny on their powers and responsibilities in Alt society so that every Alt has the same shared history/point of reference.  What has caused the disconnect... if you have stated that some younger Alts "are not completly aware" of the four Laws, the implication is that either something natural, or someone devious, is interfering with the indoctrination process.  Which further implies that there is a power struggle within the Alt hierarchical structure, or regular humans have figured out that Alts exist and have implemented a plan to disrupt their society (in either case, this might involve the drug issue you speak to).

To neurovore's point, the level of enforcement of the four laws is also vital to consider.  Is there the equivalent of an Alt "sheriff" who's role is to make sure the all generations of Alts adhere to the laws.  That might be an interesting character to have as the lead as you explore this world... by implication, this being would travel across the world, allowing for an interesting, fast paced narrative.  And, by the nature of the sherrif job, there would be rising action and conflict to hold the reader and push the storyline.

Obviously, these are my own thinking points on what you've laid out... they certainly might not match your thoughts on the world of the Alts.  But, I wish you the best.

crihavoc

[Uilos]

Uilos, if you don't mind, I'd like to throw in some thoughts -

Based upon your initial post, I think there are some specific points about the Alts that you need to further define before this supernatural addition to our world gains real coherence:

- You state that Alts are "side-type humans... a race that's been around as long as man."  I'd say the first thing you need to define is, what makes Alts different from human kind? What is the supernatural ability that allows them to masquerade as gods?  Does each Alt have the same type of power, but in varying degrees of strength?  Or, does this power manifest itself in different ways, due to differences unique to each Alt?

- Based on your description, it seems that the Alts are pretty well dispersed across the face of the world.  But, the four laws are immutable and concrete, identically, for every Alt, no matter what country or continent?  So, how does this work?  The inference is that all the Alts can communicate with each other, effortlessly in real time, in order for them to function as a society across these broad distances.  Each Alt must blend into their "home" culture... does that culture influence their world view, or are they so detached that the identities they occupy as they live in Africa or Japan or Norway, etc. are fully a disguise? I guess what I'm trying to ask is, can you define how do the Alts interact, and just how much of humanity has each individual Alt allowed to gain root inside themselves... and, how much of this splinter of humanity are they forced to hide from their peers?

- Finally, the younger generation of Alts... have they reached this disconnection point with the previous generation through some physical malady?  If the Alt can communicate across differences, they must rely on this skill to initiate new Alts, and school their progeny on their powers and responsibilities in Alt society so that every Alt has the same shared history/point of reference.  What has caused the disconnect... if you have stated that some younger Alts "are not completly aware" of the four Laws, the implication is that either something natural, or someone devious, is interfering with the indoctrination process.  Which further implies that there is a power struggle within the Alt hierarchical structure, or regular humans have figured out that Alts exist and have implemented a plan to disrupt their society (in either case, this might involve the drug issue you speak to).

To neurovore's point, the level of enforcement of the four laws is also vital to consider.  Is there the equivalent of an Alt "sheriff" who's role is to make sure the all generations of Alts adhere to the laws.  That might be an interesting character to have as the lead as you explore this world... by implication, this being would travel across the world, allowing for an interesting, fast paced narrative.  And, by the nature of the sherrif job, there would be rising action and conflict to hold the reader and push the storyline.

Obviously, these are my own thinking points on what you've laid out... they certainly might not match your thoughts on the world of the Alts.  But, I wish you the best.

crihavoc

Cri, thank you for your advice. I'll clear up some of these points, as always, chime in if you have a question:

-The Alts are biologically human. All the same organs and appendages (with very few exceptions). Contemporary Alts all share the same source of power: their spirit energy/ life force/ chi/ what-have-you. There are six sub categories of Alts.
-Corporeals, the Hercules typers. Actually, Superman is a fair analog of a "Mega-Corporeal".
-There are the psychics. They are the seers, the people who can move stuff with a thought, control fire and water and all matter of things with their minds.
-The Mages are those who can perform spells, rituals, make potions and so on. They are divided into three courts, which are depended on types of magic.
-The Elementals don't control the elements with word or mind, by are the embodiment of their elements. There are Nine Physical Elements in the story plus a few abstract ones (we only see one or two)
-There are the Spirit Types, those who are able to wield their raw energies.
-Then there are the Wild, those that don't conform to the other five.

The powers manifest in an Alt depending on 1) Bloodline and 2) Personal Beliefs. Pacifists will probably never have an sort of directly harmful ability and Aggressive people will not have any supporting abilities

-About the Laws and the Nature of the Alts. The Laws are the ONLY thing the Alts can all agree upon. Four of the Six do not have any formal government or group. The only two are the Courts of Mages and the Themic Order of Psychics. The Order and the Courts don't get along, especially with the Crimson (Blood Magic) Court.
-Other than that, each Alt is a product of their culture and personal beliefs. Many of them do have dualistic personalities, one that conforms to the Human World and another for the Alt World.
-In terms of how much they can reveal, the answer would probably be "None". But incidents do happen, and human (those that do know) and alt agencies try to spin control. Also, alot of artists, writers and celebrities throughout history either were, knew about or had help from Alts.

-The disconnect between the Older and Younger generations is based on an event in recent history, specifically the explosion of the Nuclear bomb at Trinity, Hiroshima and Nagasaki. After that, all of the Alts born during the mid 40's-mid70's (baby boomers) were born Blank, they had no powers at all. This caused the initial disconnect, and it translated to their children. Many went on to learn from their parents, many rebelled, many don't know anything of their families and how to control their powers. Also, the younger generation becomes a sought after commodity for the Older generation, who have been trying to maintain power in their respective authorities almost twice as long as they should have.

-Finally, there is no one "Sherrif". It's basically done by "first come, first serve". Since their powers are effectively fueled by their souls, the mark of an act that defies the laws is apparant to the other Alts, which basically works like sensoral overload/repulsion. There are some who do hunt down lawbreakers, but anyone is capable (and entitled) to fulfill the deed.

I hope these helped, and thank you for making me think like this, it helps to think around these corners.

[PapaBear]

Ehm... I don't post much, but this piqued my interest. I just have one question:

-Finally, there is no one "Sherrif". It's basically done by "first come, first serve". Since their powers are effectively fueled by their souls, the mark of an act that defies the laws is apparant to the other Alts, which basically works like sensoral overload/repulsion. There are some who do hunt down lawbreakers, but anyone is capable (and entitled) to fulfill the deed.

So the Laws aren't a set of rules that are written down and agreed by all Alts, but are an inherent part of their powers? And instead of them functioning like a barrier against the action, they are more like lines that if crossed will send out a beacon to other Alts notifying them?

[Uilos]

Ehm... I don't post much, but this piqued my interest. I just have one question:
So the Laws aren't a set of rules that are written down and agreed by all Alts, but are an inherent part of their powers? And instead of them functioning like a barrier against the action, they are more like lines that if crossed will send out a beacon to other Alts notifying them?

Not a beacon. Say if an Alt runs across one of their own who has killed, or a person who is being bound or enthralled against their will, that Alt will at the very least a sense of wrong. This is mostly with the exception of the first law, which is not dirctly damaging upon the soul. Rites of Combat and Challenge excuse the second law. It's mainly apparant in the last two laws

[crihavoc]

Uilos,
Circling back. hope you don't mind -

Another area that needs further definition (at least for me) would be the relationship between Alts and regular humans.  There seem to be some contradictions in what the laws, as written, state and the clarifications you responded to me with.

- As written, the First Law states: "Normal Humans can never know of our existence," which all Alts can agree on.  And, all other Laws are waived if the first is threatened (the "clear and present danger" clause in Alt society, I take it...).  However, you speak to how "incidents do happen, and human (those that do know) and alt agencies try to spin control. Also, alot of artists, writers and celebrities throughout history either were, knew about or had help from Alts."   If the first Law is absolute across the entirety of Alt society, then no human recognizing the existence of Alts could live, right?  What about parents of Alts?  How do they reproduce... are Alts only born of two other Alts, or can a human and an Alt reproduce?  What is the ability of an Alt that is the product of such a union, and what happens to the human parent?

-I feel that you would be well served to further delineate the line between "human" and home sapien.  There is something in the Alts that makes them different then the majority of the earth, whatever allows them to focus their superior, manifested soul. Do they really consider themselves biologically human, or a race apart?  The 2nd and 3rd Laws contain the phrase "another human..."  Does that refer to just Alts as the only "humans," or is it everyone?  If it is every homo sapien on earth, then why are they safeguarded, is there some role they play in the future of the Alt race the requires them to remain on the earth?  Have the Alts been made caretakers by some even more powerful being?

- Finally, speaking to the "soul sense" of Alts, where they're able to determine "wrongness in a peer," I wonder if that sense is as strong if the Alt is only thinking/planning evil?  What happens if an Alt kills a human for some reason, perhaps being careless with their powers, or in an accident... is their soul stained the same way?

- And, actually, what is the metric for "evil," in Alt culture... how is it defined?  Because they are so different, can they be expected to follow the same moral compass as a Norm?

[Uilos]

Uilos,
Circling back. hope you don't mind -

Another area that needs further definition (at least for me) would be the relationship between Alts and regular humans.  There seem to be some contradictions in what the laws, as written, state and the clarifications you responded to me with.

- As written, the First Law states: "Normal Humans can never know of our existence," which all Alts can agree on.  And, all other Laws are waived if the first is threatened (the "clear and present danger" clause in Alt society, I take it...).  However, you speak to how "incidents do happen, and human (those that do know) and alt agencies try to spin control. Also, alot of artists, writers and celebrities throughout history either were, knew about or had help from Alts."   If the first Law is absolute across the entirety of Alt society, then no human recognizing the existence of Alts could live, right?  What about parents of Alts?  How do they reproduce... are Alts only born of two other Alts, or can a human and an Alt reproduce?  What is the ability of an Alt that is the product of such a union, and what happens to the human parent?

-I feel that you would be well served to further delineate the line between "human" and home sapien.  There is something in the Alts that makes them different then the majority of the earth, whatever allows them to focus their superior, manifested soul. Do they really consider themselves biologically human, or a race apart?  The 2nd and 3rd Laws contain the phrase "another human..."  Does that refer to just Alts as the only "humans," or is it everyone?  If it is every homo sapien on earth, then why are they safeguarded, is there some role they play in the future of the Alt race the requires them to remain on the earth?  Have the Alts been made caretakers by some even more powerful being?

- Finally, speaking to the "soul sense" of Alts, where they're able to determine "wrongness in a peer," I wonder if that sense is as strong if the Alt is only thinking/planning evil?  What happens if an Alt kills a human for some reason, perhaps being careless with their powers, or in an accident... is their soul stained the same way?

- And, actually, what is the metric for "evil," in Alt culture... how is it defined?  Because they are so different, can they be expected to follow the same moral compass as a Norm?

cri, don't mind at all.

-The First Law states that Humanity may never know of the existence of the Alts. That refers to humanity as a whole, there are a slim majority who are not only aware, but very much a part of the community, and unions are possible (though not necessarily preferred). Any normal human finding out about the Alts is shunned upon, and most Alts have means of handling that (mentally, physically, etc). There are those who slip through the cracks. There are actually small organizations and government officials who are aware (and most usually paranoid of) the Alts. There's a point to where I'm getting at with this that I'll say at the end. In some cases, an Alt can be born of two Normals. They are generally considered dangerous as by the time their powers manifst, they have not been given the psychological buffering by their peers to control them

-The term "human" applies to both Normal Humans and Alts, although the point is argued by both parties. Ultimately, no one knows why there are Altered Humans and Normal Human. It initially started out with the Alts being nigh-omnipotent beings, then they were diminished to the now-limited contemporary versions, and were diminished further by losing a generation of their own kind while Normals were doing leaps and bounds in technology (ironically inspired by the Alts themselves). They went from Dictators to almost an equal basis (again, a point I'll get across at the end).

- The difference between Good and Evil is acting upon you own evil impulses. But to be stricter, it's any action that one freely chooses that brings physical, psychological or spiritual harm to oneself or another. Incidences of accidents are surprisingly low, due mainly to the buffer that the family/culture gives. Most incidences of accidents occur with those either ignorant of their heritage or Normal Born. Some are either found and trained by other Alts, others go mad and kill themselves, and others are outright killed by the community.

Crihavoc, you make the point of the laws baring contradictions. This is actually a point I wish to make. Ultimately this is an anarchistic tale, and by the stories conclusion, the laws have been broken and dissolved after the breaking of the First Law.

This story basically has four goals built into it. Uniting the current generation of Alts and Humans, replacing Legality with Morality, acknowledging people aren't either Good or Evil, with very few exceptions, and finally, Uniting the Elder Generation with the Younger Generation