What are beta readers?

[Shecky]

And implanting a tong in your cheek (where, you know, your tongue is supposed to be planted) would likely cause bleeding and other non-fun events.

[Fox]

Yeah.  Considering I had a minimal brain fart and it should have been planted not implanted.

Also you said tong instead of tongue.


Also I think it would be cool to help out with your favorite books.  To see that I could have an effect on a great piece of fiction, even if it wasn't my own, that would be really exciting.

[JRBobC]

Yeah.  Considering I had a minimal brain fart and it should have been planted not implanted.

Part to take notice of is in bold.  I couldn't remember how to spell tongue, and spell checker had no problem with tong.  See if spell checker doesn't flag it I just a keep going.

[Craig1974]

Thanks for clearing that up. It's something I would be interested in.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

Also you said tong instead of tongue.

Tongs, of course, being what Frank Tinatra tings.

[Shecky]

Tongs, of course, being what Frank Tinatra tings.

And (in deference to some of the more inexplicable gagas in here) doesn't Barry Manilow write the tongs?

[JRBobC]

*headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk*

Okay.  Enough.  Yes I now remember tongue is spelled t-o-n-g-u-e.  Like I said brain fart.

And I'm liable to never forget it either.

[Fox]

*headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk*

Okay.  Enough.  Yes I now remember tongue is spelled t-o-n-g-u-e.  Like I said brain fart.

And I'm liable to never forget it either.

I don't know, with all the blunt trauma you've been inflicting on your skull lately, I'm betting you're gonna have a hard time remembering very much at all. 

[JRBobC]

I don't know, with all the blunt trauma you've been inflicting on your skull lately, I'm betting you're gonna have a hard time remembering very much at all. 

Now just a darn tootin' minute here.......

....
....
....
Ohhh, pretty lights.  *snatches at air*

[Shecky]

*headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk**headdesk*

Okay.  Enough.  Yes I now remember tongue is spelled t-o-n-g-u-e.  Like I said brain fart.

And I'm liable to never forget it either.

  Sorry. It's just too much fun.

[Kris_W]

So here I go getting all serious and stuff –

I read pre-publication, pre-submission and work-in-progress manuscripts for several authors. It’s a lot of work with little tangible compensation.

Getting started as a beta reader was easy for me, but took a couple of decades. Some people I know got into it by hanging out with editors and offering to read their slush piles. I had certain expertise in some areas and offered do technical fact checking for some manuscripts. Another source of manuscripts is to hang out with writer’s groups. When I do that, before I accept any manuscripts, I try to pay attention to manuscript flow within the group – who asks for critiques, what is that writer’s response to those critiques, and what seem to be the general expectations within the group.

I don’t always live up to my ideals, but here’s a few of my Ideal Rules Of Thumb to start you thinking about building your own Beta Reader rules –

-   I immediately establish what level of feedback is expected, such as; Cheerleader, Plot Points, Technical Fact Checking, Grammatical, Etc. 
-   I immediately establish when the feedback is due. Exact date, if possible also exact time.
-   I give feedback in a written, methodical, easy to follow way. I discuss one problem at a time, even if there are several problems within the same section of writing, assuming the author will need a list to check off each issue as he deals with it.
-   I structure my comments as – First, what didn’t work for me, and then why I think it didn’t work.
-   I work hard to be uplifting and coherent while suggesting changes.
-   I give feedback as a reader on the current version of the story including character arcs, character likeability, plot points and coherence of the plot idea.
-   When I give feedback on technical details I cite specific sources. If the writer depends upon my established expertise then I spend sufficient time to make sure details related to that expertise are correct.

-   I do not accept every manuscript.
-   I critique every manuscript I do accept - EVERY SINGLE ONE.
-   I decline to accept a manuscript when I do not have the available time to work on it. With me that’s generally 10 hours to read and 20 more hours to write notes. I expect to work in 5 hour sessions, not ‘a few minutes here and there’. That would be for a finished, 3rd or better draft full length novel.
-   I decline to accept a manuscript if the writer or past a example of their writing was not to my taste.
-   I decline to accept a manuscript where I have no expertise or interest.
-   When I decline to critique a manuscript I do so immediately, in writing, and with no wishy-washy maybe-if-I-have-time verbiage.

-   I give editorial feedback on marketing viability. 
-   I give editorial feedback on parallels with other current works.
-   I give editorial feedback on parallels with other works over a wide range of date and location of the other work’s creation (i.e. “I like the character’s comments in Chapter Seven about it being a ‘Romeo and Juliet’ situation, but the plot line you are depicting is a lot closer to Kurban Said’s classic Azerbaijanian love story “Ali and Nino”, so much so that you may have plagiarism issues. Would you like to borrow my copy to check that out?”)

-   I don’t rewrite.
-   I don’t give content free value judgments (i.e. only a three word feedback such as “I love it!” or “I Hate it!”)
-   I don’t expect or ask for financial, social or emotional compensation. I don’t ask the writer to pay me. I don’t demand a mention on the acknowledgement page, or expect them to show up at an office Christmas party I organize. 
-   I DO make it clear to the author(s) I work with that my name is not to be shared with others without my pre-approval.
-   I don’t gossip about alternative chapters and endings after the book is published. I don’t gossip about a work in progress. I don’t get involved in the advertising.
-   I don’t whine if my favorite bits vanish from updated versions or the published work.
-   I don’t get my panties in a twist if my advice is apparently not used.

*sigh* I had a brain fart joke to close this with, but I forgot it. . .

[Shecky]

Why don't you just go into full-time proofreading/editing for a publication house and actually make a living doing what you obviously like to do? 

[Yeratel]

Why don't you just go into full-time proofreading/editing for a publication house and actually make a living doing what you obviously like to do? 

There's not a huge income potential there. Professional writer P.N. Elrod offers her services at copyediting, and the price is surprisingly reasonable:
http://www.vampwriter.com/EDIT_RATES.htm

Elrod also offers links to other writers' resources in her FAQ, including an article from JimButcher.com participant Cathy Clamp regarding Publish On Demand and vanity press services, and other scams aimed at new, unpublished writers.  http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=418800&postcount=6

[Shecky]

Heh. This little snippet especially amused me:

Here's a good one: "Our editors will carefully copyedit your manuscript for typographical, punctuation, and grammatical errors." That sounds a lot like running Spell Check and Grammar check in MSWord. Big deal. You can do that yourself for free.

Yup. And you can get the $50 translation software if you want to make your work multilingual. Both Word and so-called "translation" software blow goats; it takes a seasoned, sharp-eyed pro to do the job WELL. Word's document check won't blink an eye at such gems as "I learned against the door", and translation software can turn "The spirit was willing but the flesh was weak" into "The wine was good but the meat was spoiled".

No, neither field offers "huge" income potential here in the US; that much is true. Even a quality translator or proofreader who is recognized in his field won't make enough to retire by the time he's 50. But they do offer adequate salaries for competent people, and working in a field you enjoy more than makes up for the ulcers of many high-paying, low-humanity jobs.

[Starbeam]

I don’t always live up to my ideals, but here’s a few of my Ideal Rules Of Thumb to start you thinking about building your own Beta Reader rules –

Those rules are the kinda thing I wish I could've gotten from my college writing classes.  Especially cause that's pretty much how I critiqued the stuff I read.

I don’t give content free value judgments (i.e. only a three word feedback such as “I love it!” or “I Hate it!”)

Unfortunately, I got more of the three word feedback kinda thing.  Along with stuff like, about the word brazier, "Is this a bra?"  I mean, I know not everyone is familiar with fantasy, but really, there's this thing called a dictionary; it'll tell you exactly what a brazier is.

There's not a huge income potential there. Professional writer P.N. Elrod offers her services at copyediting, and the price is surprisingly reasonable:
http://www.vampwriter.com/EDIT_RATES.htm

Elrod also offers links to other writers' resources in her FAQ, including an article from JimButcher.com participant Cathy Clamp regarding Publish On Demand and vanity press services, and other scams aimed at new, unpublished writers.  http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=418800&postcount=6

Those rates are more for freelance copyediting.  Full time professional job at a publisher would have a higher salary.  I don't work for a novel publisher, just a puzzle publisher, but I have a pretty decent salary.  But living off it, in or near NYC, would be somewhat difficult.