Author Topic: It's Crap! Should I finish???  (Read 14373 times)

Offline blgarver

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It's Crap! Should I finish???
« on: September 12, 2008, 02:33:01 PM »
So I'm in the final battle scene of this monstrosity of a fantasy/horror novel I've been working on for almost 3 years now.  This thing began as a one page romp, just to break the monotony of my office job.  It spread like a rash, and now I'm 400+ pages into it, and nearly finished.

I'm losing steam though.  Because i was writing by the seat of my pants, many of the scenes seem forced to me.  It is very apparent that I had no idea where the story was going.  I like the overall story, and some of the characters are good, but the book is so meandering and disjointed that it's just depressing to think about.

My plan is to use this as a rough draft/treatement, and go back after for a restructuring and a serious rewrite.  I feel I should finish this thing, get the rough draft to its completion, but I'm so disinterested in the thing as it exists right now.  At this point I'm just putting words on the page to get the thing done, and everything is coming out half-assed and lame.

I'm sure everyone has been in a spot like this before.  What did you do?  Finish the crap draft just to tie up the lose ends before the rewrite?  Or set it aside and begin restructuring instead of putting a lot of time into the few final chapters?

I'm trying to get this thing to a stopping point by the beginning of October so i can have that entire month to write a treatment of my Nano novel.
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Offline meg_evonne

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Re: It's Crap! Should I finish???
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2008, 03:04:58 PM »
Slash your way to the end, edit later... Don't even look back or the crap will catch up with you!  Run bl, run and write as fast as possible!
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Offline the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh

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Re: It's Crap! Should I finish???
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2008, 04:37:26 PM »
So I'm in the final battle scene of this monstrosity of a fantasy/horror novel I've been working on for almost 3 years now.

If you're that near the end, finish it.  There are times when it's worth restructuring in the middle, if you realise you've gone six chapters in the wrong direction so what you might do after that won't make any sense with what you need to do before, but this does not sound like one.

Quote
My plan is to use this as a rough draft/treatement, and go back after for a restructuring and a serious rewrite.  I feel I should finish this thing, get the rough draft to its completion, but I'm so disinterested in the thing as it exists right now.  At this point I'm just putting words on the page to get the thing done, and everything is coming out half-assed and lame.

I won't say everyone gets that, because I can't actually speak for everyone. (some of the time). But most writers get that.  World Fantasy Award winners get that - I have heard this directly from two of them - both before and after the award, and for some of the most brilliant books in the genre, so think of it as a phase you will pass through, and with time and work you'll come to a point of seeing what you like about the thing again.
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Offline Kris_W

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Re: It's Crap! Should I finish???
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2008, 04:38:27 PM »
Finish the manuscript before rewriting.
Let the manuscript age for several months before re-writing.
Finish the manuscript before rewriting.
Write another manuscript before editing the first.
Finish the manuscript before rewriting.

A useful writing tool in a big old bottom drawer where you can stash finished manuscripts while they ‘age’. But most importantly, finish the manuscript before rewriting.

(Yes, I do have very firm opinions on this. ;) )

Offline InfernoMDM

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Re: It's Crap! Should I finish???
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2008, 10:07:33 PM »
Finish it.  I will also read it over if you want since I am just about done with the last Dresden book.

Offline Blaze

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Re: It's Crap! Should I finish???
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2008, 10:12:04 PM »
Finish it!  Put it aside for a while and let the thing settle.  Even if it is truly awful, in time it may become amusing, and if it isn't truly awful, it can be resurrected and rewritten or may even have value in the parts department. 

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Offline blgarver

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Re: It's Crap! Should I finish???
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2008, 12:51:20 AM »
Okay.  I will finish it. 

*brushes off knees*

*pulls self up by the bootstraps*

Onward into the fray.

Thanks guys.
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Offline SailorYue

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Re: It's Crap! Should I finish???
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2008, 02:55:33 AM »
Ive been there with fanfics. Where i simply gave up on them. I have one unpublshed fanfic that is pure gold imo and i didnt have the ending for a kong time. what i did was when i wanted to stop because of The Block i put the folder a way for a couple months. When the story was out of my head i read it again going over and removing or changing somethings. By the time i reached that part i had a decent. A profesional mite be able to pick 6ut where the writing changds but honestly i think its a great epic fic. Hells i even had sequels(it would have been a trilogy) in my head but they stayed there. Perhaps if i ever publish the fic ill write them but i know theyl suck.                                       perhapsyou should do much the same. Set it aside, clear your mindp and go back at a later time.
aproximatly...

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Offline azjayp

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Re: It's Crap! Should I finish???
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2008, 06:07:51 AM »
i'm sorry, i have to disagree with everyone else on this one. if you didn't know where the story was going to begin with, all finishing it would do is create a lot of stress and hard, painful, tedious work for you that may change DRASTICLY and turn out to be useless later becuase of the direction your story goes when you re-write. i think "pushing through" will also make you hate the book that much more when you read through again.

Offline the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh

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Re: It's Crap! Should I finish???
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2008, 06:25:36 AM »
i'm sorry, i have to disagree with everyone else on this one. if you didn't know where the story was going to begin with, all finishing it would do is create a lot of stress and hard, painful, tedious work for you that may change DRASTICLY and turn out to be useless later becuase of the direction your story goes when you re-write. i think "pushing through" will also make you hate the book that much more when you read through again.

Depends entirely on how you work and how your story isn't working.  you seem to be assuming that if the story goes wrong at point X, everything after point X will need reworking once you fix point X. Believe me, this is not always the case.

the way I work, I can easily know what the next big climax point is, 50,000 words and ten chapters away, but not how I will get there from here.  Sometimes I get the right scenes in the right order between here and there and that's fine.  Sometimes it's almost right and I can go on to there and then go on from there and come back and fix later because I know it won't change anything past that climax point. 

Besides, blgarver said he was in the final battle scene, and that there was a heck of a lot of work to do anyway; and if you've written 95% and know you'll have to rework 80% of the thing, writing the last 5% has as the worst case result you now have to rewrite 85% of the thing.  On the other hand, it has the best case result of "Oh. This is how I want the thing to end.  To make this scene work I need to introduce Anna's grandmother in chapter 5 and have her show up at the party in chapter 23, fit in a conversation in which someone mentions in passing that they have five-shot repeater crossbows in the Scarlet Empire so that the assassin can have one at the end and that can go in the discussion in the barracks in chapter 18 where they are showing off their magic swords, and oh, that's what the damned goat was doing, so have it be unobtrusively in the background more often."  then you go back and do half a dozen single-line insertions at the right points and never tell anyone you didn't mean it that way all along.  Some things you don't learn until you try writing them, and this can include bits of resolution that you do not know until that point you need to set up.

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"What do you mean, Lawful Silly isn't a valid alignment?"

kittensgame, Sandcastle Builder, Homestuck, Welcome to Night Vale, Civ III, lots of print genre SF, and old-school SATT gaming if I had the time.  Also Pandemic Legacy is the best game ever.

Offline SailorYue

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Re: It's Crap! Should I finish???
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2008, 02:32:10 PM »
It would be a shame to just throw away something you work on to 90%. If the person did uhat theyed regret it later amd would lose faith in theyre ability to write. They realy just need to clear theyr mind of the story. Like "forget it" so they can see what went wrong. When i did my rewrite several times i thougt "why did i write that that way" or "that is so OOC of that person to say/do that"
aproximatly...

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Offline Uilos

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Re: It's Crap! Should I finish???
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2008, 04:32:23 PM »
I think all my stuff is drek, it probably is, however, I'd rather keep going, learn a few things, and when I'm done with the story, I go back and tune it up. And I'll continue to do it until I'm either happy, or can think of nothing else.

Dont' stop, keep moving, and learn from your steps.

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Offline Kris_W

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Re: It's Crap! Should I finish???
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2008, 04:44:24 PM »
...a lot of stress and hard, painful, tedious work ...
In my opinion, that's pretty much what writing is -

Every published writer I know (and I know several) has a few finished but un-publishable early manuscripts stashed away somewhere. Writing is a learning experience and pushing through to the finish is an enormously important lesson.

Come to think of it, I know an awful lot of unpublished writers with several unfinished manuscripts each and no completed works.

I think there may be a connection.

Offline Suilan

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Re: It's Crap! Should I finish???
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2008, 09:23:38 PM »
First drafts are always crap, don't let that discourage you.

Some writers like to outline (thoroughly) a story to the end before writing the first scene (and when they do write the story down, they don't even have to do it chronologically, because that's how well they outline plot and chapter beforehand). Others like to plunge right in with only a fuzzy idea of who their main character is and one inciting incident / object / setting, whatever. They like to discover their characters and plot while writing. When they found their them, yes, they will have to go back to the beginning and add a few (OK, a LOT) of clarifications. There's nothing wrong with either method. The writer automatically chooses the method that works best for him.

As I'm of the latter type, I have to

- revise the beginning. Does the story goal expressed in my first-draft beginning have anything to do with the finale? Turns out, in my first draft the story goal wasn't expressed until 2/3 through! I had to move it up front. It changed a lot, but not as much as you might think. Yes, the characters suddenly knew things in chapter one that before they learned only very much later, but most of the action still worked.

- go over each scene and revise for scene goal (does the scene have a scene goal that moves the plot forward toward the finale? If not, revise until it does) and focus within each scene (does the scene stay on topic regarding the scene goal).

- revise for theme. Does every scene aid toward the novel's theme?

- revise for character. You know your characters pretty well by know (better, imho, that from an outline.) You've found his voice, completed his character arc. You know how he was and how the story changed him. Now make his voice and personality consistent throughout.

Pacing, clarity, coherance, consistency -- the time to work on these things is once you've finished your first draft. First draft is where you jot the plot down in a hurry and sketch/get to know your characters.  Also, I find that it helps me to reread my favorite how-to's on creative writing before I revise to remind me off what pitfalls and issues I have to look out for during revision, and to get into the mood.


So don't worry about those vague/forced scenes right now. Finish the novel. Take a break. Then revise. Or workshop your novel.


There is one exception in my experience, where the just-push-on technique doesn't work, that is when I have maneuvered myself into a corner, for example my characters into a situation that I don't see any way to get them out off. "I have a plot problem" has become a well-known explanation amongst my friends and family for any lingering foul mood on my part. At least twice I found that my premise/a crucial point of magical system contradicted a later development, so that the whole trilogy (work of oh, 8 years) seemed to be about to collapse. No matter how much I started at the screen, there was no solution to be found. It took me two full months away from the screen (with lots of mulling over the problem with help of pen and paper and a lot of going back to the drawing table) until I found a solution. Some things can't be forced. (But most things in a novel can be made to look plausible in the end ;o)

Anyway, best of luck!


P.S.

Quote
"a lot of stress and hard, painful, tedious work ..."
 In my opinion, that's pretty much what writing is.

I second that. Many people tell me that if I fail to get published (after trying for many years) that I could just go on writing as a hobby, "to express myself" or "release my creative energy" as if it where some sort of refreshing psycho therapy. It's the opposite. It's stressful. It's draining. Painful. It's alternately exhilarating ("I just had a great idea!") and causing deepest depression ("I have a plot problem!") It's a permanent emotional rollercoaster ride.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2008, 09:27:02 PM by Suilan »
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Offline Uilos

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Re: It's Crap! Should I finish???
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2008, 09:50:04 PM »

I second that. Many people tell me that if I fail to get published (after trying for many years) that I could just go on writing as a hobby, "to express myself" or "release my creative energy" as if it where some sort of refreshing psycho therapy. It's the opposite. It's stressful. It's draining. Painful. It's alternately exhilarating ("I just had a great idea!") and causing deepest depression ("I have a plot problem!") It's a permanent emotional rollercoaster ride.


a lot of people don't realize that, though. My friends from college, nice kids, kinda pseudo hipsters, would look at me and wonder why I'd be exhausted, and then scoff when I told them I wrote a chapter

It's grueling, it's not like it's free writing, where you just pour everything out onto paper or processor. You are creating, it's taxing, difficult, and oft times life consuming.
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