Editorial question

[Shadow]

Question.  My cousin wrote a book and asked me to be her first reader/ initial editor.  Since we've started she has been through 2 more drafts and her first round of readers.  She thinks she just has some final tweaking to do, I think she has another whole edit to do.  When I asked her if she was able to read the whole book through without stopping she said no   By page three she is noticing things and by page 15 she had to stop to edit.

So my question for all you writers is, when do you feel your book is done?  I know that nobody is every completely satisfied , but what's the point where you let it go?

[Yeratel]

I'd say it's ready to send to an agent or publisher for their consideration once all of the spelling, grammar, and continuity issues (e.g., calling a character "Ramirez" on one page, and "Rodriguez" on the next) are resolved, and the story you wanted to tell is complete with a beginning, middle, and end. Anything past that point is problems with the story, characters, facts, pacing, or structure that will require rewriting to correct.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

So my question for all you writers is, when do you feel your book is done?  I know that nobody is every completely satisfied , but what's the point where you let it go?

When my most trusted readers tell me I'm not making it better any more, or when it's been submitted.

The ones that have been submitted for long enough that I'm a better writer now and could actually make them better now if someone were to get around to rejecting them... I try not to think about.

[Shadow]

It just seems strange to me that she's not been able to read the book from start to finish.  On the other hand, I'm not a writer so maybe that's common.  Maybe the whole thing is so present in her mind that she just knows

[Moritz]

(e.g., calling a character "Ramirez" on one page, and "Rodriguez" on the next)

I know at least one Dresden Files book where that is messed up between page 1 and 2 

[Starbeam]

Question.  My cousin wrote a book and asked me to be her first reader/ initial editor.  Since we've started she has been through 2 more drafts and her first round of readers.  She thinks she just has some final tweaking to do, I think she has another whole edit to do.  When I asked her if she was able to read the whole book through without stopping she said no   By page three she is noticing things and by page 15 she had to stop to edit.

So my question for all you writers is, when do you feel your book is done?  I know that nobody is every completely satisfied , but what's the point where you let it go?

Have to let someone else read it.  You're your own worst critic, so you're always going to find something that could be done better/differently.  Some people finish the entire story, then go back through and edit, others get to some kind of stopping point and go back and edit and rewrite and go forward, and continue like that.  From the little bit of History of Lord of the Rings that I've read, Tolkien did that all the time.  If he hadn't, the story might've just been about Bilbo leaving the Shire to get married, or Aragorn being Bilbo's nephew and nicknamed "Trotter."  Patricia Briggs said she writes that way, too.  I can't say what point I get to to be finished, because I've not yet completed a story without going back and changing things.  It's inchwork.

[meg_evonne]

Do you write, Shadow? 

The reason I ask, and I'm not the expert here, but from my online classes the important thing is to write.  If you get caught up in the editing, then some personalities never get to putting it down on the paper part. I've seen that from several classmates in online classes who are themselves editors and copywriters.  They agonize over getting it down perfectly and then are truly discouraged when they never get past Chapter 2.  (and apparently you should toss out all first chapters automatically in the final draft!)

Also, don't overlook the fact that your cousin has probably spent a huge amount of time and has a large personal emotional investment into what s/he has accomplished.  If s/he isn't looking for editing help--then they just need a pat on the back for creative effort.  S/he will figure out for her/himself that they have a long way to go before it's ready to turn in.

Now, if you aren't writing Shadow, why aren't you?   push push prod prod  :-)

[Shadow]

Do you write, Shadow? 

The reason I ask, and I'm not the expert here, but from my online classes the important thing is to write.  If you get caught up in the editing, then some personalities never get to putting it down on the paper part. I've seen that from several classmates in online classes who are themselves editors and copywriters.  They agonize over getting it down perfectly and then are truly discouraged when they never get past Chapter 2.  (and apparently you should toss out all first chapters automatically in the final draft!)

Also, don't overlook the fact that your cousin has probably spent a huge amount of time and has a large personal emotional investment into what s/he has accomplished.  If s/he isn't looking for editing help--then they just need a pat on the back for creative effort.  S/he will figure out for her/himself that they have a long way to go before it's ready to turn in.

Now, if you aren't writing Shadow, why aren't you?   push push prod prod  :-)

I've been a reader my whole life and sold books for 8 years, which is why she asked me to help her edit.  We also have a fantastic relationship, where I can actually tell her the truth, not just the polite stuff.   I've tried to be very careful to help guide, but not to overwhelm or direct, because it is her book not our book.  The sense of urgancy for her comes from meeting an agent this week-end at a workshop who asked my cousin to send her a submission.  My cousin wants to send her query while the agent still remembers her.  My cousin thinks she needs to clean it up and tweak some.  I'm just afraid she has more to do than she realizes.  I forsee alot of late nights for her this week

I don't write    I've had a few ideas now and then, but nothing that ever made me want to put pen to paper.   

[Starbeam]

I've been a reader my whole life and sold books for 8 years, which is why she asked me to help her edit.  We also have a fantastic relationship, where I can actually tell her the truth, not just the polite stuff.   I've tried to be very careful to help guide, but not to overwhelm or direct, because it is her book not our book.  The sense of urgancy for her comes from meeting an agent this week-end at a workshop who asked my cousin to send her a submission.  My cousin wants to send her query while the agent still remembers her.  My cousin thinks she needs to clean it up and tweak some.  I'm just afraid she has more to do than she realizes.  I forsee alot of late nights for her this week

I don't write    I've had a few ideas now and then, but nothing that ever made me want to put pen to paper.  

If that's the case, and if the submission requirements are like those I've seen most places, the agent will only want the first five pages or so with a query, if they like it, they'll ask for the first few chapters, and then if they like those, they'll ask for the rest of the manuscript.  Which gives a bit more time to polish the entire thing.  I don't know how long it takes an agent to respond to a query, but I think I remember reading/seeing somewhere that an average is something like a month.

[Paynesgrey]

I can't speak as an author, but from a painter's viewpoint, I learned to stop when people would start slapping the brush out of my hands and telling me not to touch it.  As a rule, when I thought something was "perfect", it had some hideous flaw that I needed somebody to mention to notice...and when it was finished, I thought I had "just one more thing-ed" for the past several hours.

[meg_evonne]

She is very lucky to have you as a reader.  I'm sure she greatly appreciates your input and suggestions.

From what I've seen, Query and pages is normal.  From five to 30 pages, whatever they have asked for.  Those are the ones she probalby needs to have squeeky clean ASAP to send right away while the memory is firm. 

Universal suggestions I've seen and heard is to not do anything until the manuscript is ready to be forwarded as well as it can be put together.

On the other hand, I wouldn't skip the opportunity.  Stay up all night and get those 30 pages or whatever was requestsed off with a good query and let us know how it turns out. 

What can she be out, except for another rejection letter for her files?