Derivative Plots?

[Starbeam]

Well, really, it's Akira Kurosawa's samurai movies rewritten with lightsabres.

That's how they started out, but the story evolved quite a bit.  From the Making of book.

[Hasufin]

I think the question of what is Science Fiction versus what is Fantasy can at best only be answered vaguely. I think one problem is the perceived hierarchy between the two - anything can be considered fantasy, but there are "standards" for science fiction.

In general, for something to be "Hard" SF, it must not contain elements which are not directly supportable using current science. Science Fiction in general only contains elements which do not contradict current science, but may contain elements which are not necessarily supported by science.

Fantasy does not answer to science at all, and may contain elements which contradict science.

Many stories contain a mixture of science fiction and fantasy, but where they cross the line from being "SF with fantasy elements" and become "Fantasy with SF elements" is up to the reader.

Regardless of whether a work is SF or Fantasy, the work should still be self-consistent.

[Suilan]

If the definition of a science fiction novel is that it must not contradict science, then I believe I've never read one in my life 

Fantasy contradicts science a lot less, since it doesn't talk about it much at all. 

BTW, I write Fantasy, do you have any idea the kind of research the author has to do to get all the flora et fauna, geography, climates, the medicine, mathmatics, and history right? That's all science (even the last, because a huge part of it concerns the history of technology).

Personally, I can't stand/read any kind of fantasy where the heroes march through some dragon-infested high plateau under a hot merciless sun where there isn't enough water to wet their parched lips and not even a shrub to take shade, and then the author says: they lived on berries and mushrooms.

Imho, the modern reader (unlike the readers of say Jules Verne or Asimov or . . .) expects more realism and scientific correctness both in Fantasy AND in Science Fiction.

[Quantus]

If the definition of a science fiction novel is that it must not contradict science, then I believe I've never read one in my life 

Fantasy contradicts science a lot less, since it doesn't talk about it much at all. 

Imho, the modern reader (unlike the readers of say Jules Verne or Asimov or . . .) expects more realism and scientific correctness both in Fantasy AND in Science Fiction.

My favorite example, and the Only series I think qualifies as not contradicting science is Tom Swift, the original ones.  Science Fiction in the 1900 about an inventor:  Tom Swift and his Motor Cycle, Tom Swift and his Electric Train, Tom Swift and his Moving Pictures.  Its why I believe in Science; science fiction is just science Not Yet.

That really has no real bearing on the discussion of the sf/fantasy dichotomy and where the line falls, but I thought it was a relevant example

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

BTW, I write Fantasy, do you have any idea the kind of research the author has to do to get all the flora et fauna, geography, climates, the medicine, mathmatics, and history right? That's all science (even the last, because a huge part of it concerns the history of technology).

If you are bothering to do that, you're way ahead of an awful lot of published fantasy writers.

[Shecky]

If you are bothering to do that, you're way ahead of an awful lot of published fantasy writers.

Sad but true - it's one of the reasons I tend to shy away from fantasy. It's so often SCREAMINGLY intellectually inconsistent.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

If the definition of a science fiction novel is that it must not contradict science, then I believe I've never read one in my life 

Shame you picked "novel" there, because there's a whole pile of Asimov short stories that don't have anything in contradicting science, particularly the more mystery-like ones. I'm sure if I were at home and looking at my bookshelves I could come up with some counterexamples here.

[the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh]

Sad but true - it's one of the reasons I tend to shy away from fantasy. It's so often SCREAMINGLY intellectually inconsistent.

And occasionally there will be one that really thinks through the economics, or what magical healing does to infant mortality and how that affects population, and basically nobody ever seems to notice.

[Shecky]

And occasionally there will be one that really thinks through the economics, or what magical healing does to infant mortality and how that affects population, and basically nobody ever seems to notice.

It's what I call the Good Politician Syndrome - they're so few and far between that people don't believe in them when they DO appear.