Author Topic: Fanfic richer or poorer?  (Read 29907 times)

Offline Noey

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3555
  • Life On Planet Pink.
    • View Profile
Re: Fanfic richer or poorer?
« Reply #30 on: March 18, 2008, 07:39:28 PM »
And again, Noey, Copyright doesn't belong to ideas at all. Only to physical results of those ideas. What is actually written down.


Yep, and I was trying to agree with you but I think I've been at work too long, and my last brain cell went on an extended lunch break about an hour ago. I really hope it comes back, because we carpooled.

Anyway, I was trying to add to what you were saying with my agreement, and in addition that copyright is further difficult because it needs to be specific to a published work. It can't just be a similar plot. There has to be a lot of elements in common, and definitely you need to prove you got there first to protect your work. If you can't, well, you're just up a fragrant river.
You can't get a cup of tea big enough or a book long enough to suit me. - C.S. Lewis

Offline Murphy's Stunt Double

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 20870
  • Tiny... but fierce!
    • View Profile
Re: Fanfic richer or poorer?
« Reply #31 on: March 18, 2008, 07:58:04 PM »
I think I've been at work too long, and my last brain cell went on an extended lunch break about an hour ago. I really hope it comes back, because we carpooled.

Heh- This is a great line for a book... LOL

Point understood, now.
If you are up to no good, please do no good for me too, okay?   ;D

Offline THETA

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 526
  • Insert evil laugh now
    • View Profile
    • myspace
Re: Fanfic richer or poorer?
« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2008, 04:29:21 AM »
1) Fanfiction, i think to a certain degree can be healthy for aspiring writers.  I view fanfiction as a kind of writing exercise.  There are plenty of creative writing prompts that will provide a little back story and characters that you are expected to extrapolate from.  Fanfiction is a similar concept.  You can never appreciate, as a writer, how difficult it is to command the sheer amount of creativity it takes to create a successful novel.  Fanfiction is a way to cushion an aspiring writer into the world of authoring on a smaller scape.  You "borrow" (this is a euphemism, dear children) someone else's brilliance and merely work in your own.  In a sense, fanfiction has challenges that normal fiction doesn't, because if you are " borrowing" such beloved characters and stories then it is your responsibility to live up to the great craftsmanship of the works you've taken a free ride from.

Of course, many abuse these privileges.  There should be like, rules to posting fanficiton.

1) No, you and your friends may not pose as the 10th, 11th, and 12th walkers of the fellowship.
2) No, you may not indulge in written fantasies of falling in love with any of the fellowship members.
3) Get your f*ckin' homophones right.  Its/it's, their/there/they're, too/to ect.
4) Get your spelling right.  I don't care if english isn't your first language or if you're just a retard.  When you write crap like "He was sihlent" for silent, somewhere someone dies.
5) No, you may not marry Harry Potter
6) And no, you may not have sex with Harry Potter either.

*shudders*  Horrible, horrible people.  But, also, you've got to accept that many of these would-be writers are quite young, probably high school level or even jr. high level in some cases.  They don't know how to write more than just the books they read or a lot of the time their attempts at writing are diluted by their illusions of good writing from television and movie scripting.  Someday in college or later on, they very well may learn to write better and understand more about character achetypes and story development rather than just resulting to shoddy plagiarism.  We shouldn't begrudge fanfic people of their writing development...even if it does make us want to impale someone.

2) Slash, i dunno if you mean male/male kind of slash or just the whole "I'M GONNA PAIR ALL THE CHARACTERS IN THE BOOKS IN RANDOM AND DISGUSTING PAIRINGS".  I'll try and address both.

Gay relationship slash:  Many fanfic writers are females*.  Many women have the "wishing for a gay friend" thing.  The psychology of this phenomenon in brief is that females like the idea that in a gay relationship, one of the males have to fulfill a submissive role much the same way all females face in a relationship.  I'm not just talking sexually here.  Women like the idea that a male would have to go through the same problems they do in a relationship.  Women crave for a man to have some sort of vulnerability, which is why women go for that whole "mysterious stranger" stereotype because a man with secrets makes him vulnerable.

But anyways, the reason why people like making unlikely pairings or random pairings or going off already existing pairings is because the fanfic author or the audience that person is addressing are all craving for a wider range of emotions that the book or movie or whatever provides.  In other words, they want love angst.  They crave for that whole hurt/comfort blah blah blah romance kind of stuff with character they love, but perhaps cannot wholly be satisfied with because of the kind of story they're in. 
Take for example, Lord of the Rings, a story now riddled by fanfiction (although some of it is quite good).  In LOTR, romance was a kind of subplot.  The Aragorn and Arwen thing was mainly explained in the appendix and vaguely in the story.  Oh and for all those Aragorn/Legolas shippers, many were curious as to where the two had met and just how intimate of a friendship they had.  Aragorn/Boromir people too were like, "DID ARAGORN KNOW HIM WHILE HE WAS STATIONED IN GOnDOR?!!!! squeee".  People are just trying to fill in that hole.

*On male to female ratio on fanfic writers.  I know a lot of guys, instead of fanfiction just write really bad "creative" fiction that mind as well be fanfiction.  They seem to think that by changing the names of the characters and planets, they have something new and innovative instead of another rewrite of Star Wars.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2008, 04:33:50 AM by THETA »
The words on the mysterious door read:
"Fancy hearing cake."

Offline Yeratel

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 8872
    • View Profile
Re: Fanfic richer or poorer?
« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2008, 04:58:51 AM »
So.... are authorized tie-in novels considered fanfic, or not?  I was counting all the published Star Trek fiction, e.g., as fanfic when I wrote my original post, but if it isn't, then I retract what I said.  I've never actually read any of the amateur stuff posted on the web.
No, in the case of Spiderman, or Star Wars, or Star Trek novels, the copyright owners contract with a professional writer like Jim to write a book in the series, and usually provide the plot outline and character descriptions, so everything has continuity with the existing work. The copyright owners retain the copyright on the finished novel, not the writer who produced it. I doubt if Jim gets any royalties from sales of the Spiderman book, either; writers usually get just a one time fee for the job. But you'd have to ask him about that.
"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea. " -RAH

Offline Yeratel

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 8872
    • View Profile
Re: Fanfic richer or poorer?
« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2008, 05:22:25 AM »
I agree with most of what THETA said above. Let's face it, 90% of teen written fan fiction just sucks, half of the remainder just blows, and most of what's left sucks and blows at the same time, e.g., gay slash featuring Harry Potter + Dumbledore vs Draco Malfoy + Snape vs Hermione + Ginny. The odds are that, somewhere, in the vast pile of dreck there must be at least one story that's well structured, insightful of the characters, grammatically correct, and spelled right, but I haven't seen anything that fits the description on fanfic.net.
"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea. " -RAH

Offline Tech L. Me

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 565
  • Medicated and Motivated!
    • View Profile
    • [Insert Properly Pithy/Thoughtful Title Here]
Re: Fanfic richer or poorer?
« Reply #35 on: March 19, 2008, 06:11:23 AM »
You forgot Harry Potter + Draco Malfoy

And there is a very good reason why ff.net is called 'The Pit of Voles'
If a doctor writes a prescription in the forest and there is no one around to read it, is it still illegible?

Avatar by nomadic_writer on LJ

Offline Yeratel

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 8872
    • View Profile
Re: Fanfic richer or poorer?
« Reply #36 on: March 19, 2008, 06:58:45 AM »
I suspect that the slash pile on fanfic.net would be a fertile hunting ground for pedophiles looking for hormonal teenagers searching for positive feedback on their writing talents.
"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea. " -RAH

Offline Murphy's Stunt Double

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 20870
  • Tiny... but fierce!
    • View Profile
Re: Fanfic richer or poorer?
« Reply #37 on: March 19, 2008, 07:11:23 AM »
Now there's a thought to give me nightmares! *shudders*
If you are up to no good, please do no good for me too, okay?   ;D

Offline THETA

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 526
  • Insert evil laugh now
    • View Profile
    • myspace
Re: Fanfic richer or poorer?
« Reply #38 on: March 19, 2008, 09:22:40 AM »
*gags*

Eww.  Anyways, i apologize for my age group Yeratel.  Most of their shit does indeed blow.  God, you would think that if they're already using someone else's characters, universe, and basic storyline they could at least bust out something half descent.  I blame the school system's lack in bolstering creative writing in english classes.  For god's sake, we're expected to explicate poems and analyze the existential ideas portrayed in works by Camus for months on end, but they can't just hand us a piece a paper and say write a short story for one bloody week?  And again, i blame TV.  Television and movies are not a prime example of good writing.  Literature is.  GAH, anger.
The words on the mysterious door read:
"Fancy hearing cake."

Offline Yeratel

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 8872
    • View Profile
Re: Fanfic richer or poorer?
« Reply #39 on: March 19, 2008, 02:24:31 PM »
It's not their fault for being teenagers, and at least they enjoy reading, and they WANT to write, they just don't know how. I don't know if creativity is something that can actually be taught, but it would be great if they learned more about parts of speech, sentence structure, and spelling.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2008, 09:52:31 PM by Yeratel »
"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea. " -RAH

Offline THETA

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 526
  • Insert evil laugh now
    • View Profile
    • myspace
Re: Fanfic richer or poorer?
« Reply #40 on: March 19, 2008, 09:09:06 PM »
No, creativity can't be taught, but it can be encouraged.  I think any advanced placement (AP, IB, college prep, ect) classes are pretty good about working with sentence structure and analytical skills as well as sentence coherency and paragraph cohesion.  Normal classes on the other hand scares me.  Every other week or so my english teacher has us revise the papers from his normal classes and it is just aweful.  Okay, regular 9th graders who use "I was happy, lol." i could almost stand, but with some of those 12th grade papers i was glad to find someone who could have a complete sentence, much less one that actually had an understandable thesis.  Bleck. 
The words on the mysterious door read:
"Fancy hearing cake."

Offline Matrix Refugee (formerly Morraeon)

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1684
    • View Profile
Re: Fanfic richer or poorer?
« Reply #41 on: March 19, 2008, 10:26:49 PM »


Of course, many abuse these privileges.  There should be like, rules to posting fanficiton.

1) No, you and your friends may not pose as the 10th, 11th, and 12th walkers of the fellowship.
2) No, you may not indulge in written fantasies of falling in love with any of the fellowship members.
3) Get your f*ckin' homophones right.  Its/it's, their/there/they're, too/to ect.
4) Get your spelling right.  I don't care if english isn't your first language or if you're just a retard.  When you write crap like "He was sihlent" for silent, somewhere someone dies.
5) No, you may not marry Harry Potter
6) And no, you may not have sex with Harry Potter either.

I'm going to add a few ("Matrix" series fandom):

7) No, you cannot fall in love with Neo; if you try, Trinity will kill you.
8 ) No, you are not "TEH REEL WUN!111111", there is only *one* One per iteration. You are not it.
8a) Matrix Online Corrollary: Don't try and claim your character is the next One if you consistently throw the canon out the window because you think it's "too restricting".
9) No, you cannot have a threesome with the Twins; they would as soon kill you as look at you.
10) What subtext between Smith and Neo? where?
11) No, the Merovingian is not going to try to seduce you if you're underage. He survived three versions of the Matrix and six cycles of the One by *NOT* trawling high school enrollment records looking for Mary Sues.
12) There are other Exiles besides vampires and werewolves. Most of them are common garden humanoids.
13) NO! Emphatically *NO*: Agent Smith, or any other Agent is *NOT* going to fall in love with you, either.
14) There is only one female Agent, and that is Agent Pace. Last I knew, she had a thing for Ghost, and also, she's not really that cuddly, either.

I'd like to do a list of rules for imaginary bad TDF fanfiction, but someone would pull a Ms. Gard on me and since I'm already having a bad day, I don't want to make it worse for myself.

Offline MonaLS

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 785
    • View Profile
Re: Fanfic richer or poorer?
« Reply #42 on: March 20, 2008, 05:17:06 AM »
Sorry for sounding ignorant, but what is slash?
“There is no snooze button on a cat who wants breakfast” Anonymous

MatthewD44

  • Guest
Re: Fanfic richer or poorer?
« Reply #43 on: March 20, 2008, 05:24:27 AM »
Theta, it doesn't surprise me at all about writing skills in regular English classes.. try having a class of 8th graders just write me a simple observation and I end up with at least half of the class not forming complete thoughts... and I am not going anywhere near handwriting problems.. 

Offline THETA

  • Conversationalist
  • **
  • Posts: 526
  • Insert evil laugh now
    • View Profile
    • myspace
Re: Fanfic richer or poorer?
« Reply #44 on: March 20, 2008, 06:41:43 AM »
Sorry for sounding ignorant, but what is slash?

Be thankful for your naivety.  However, i would love to awake you from your Matrix (thank you Morraeon for the reference), so here.  Slash is either A, random pairings between characters that are not canon (already established in the story's universe) and then involving them in some kind of romantic liason (usually in a rather provocative fashion).  For example if i were to take the Harry Potter series and be like, "OMFG Hermoine/Draco forever!!!!1111".  Slash's second skin is B, gay relationships between characters, so keeping with the Harry Potter theme here, slash B would be along the lines of Harry/Draco, Remus/Sirius, ect.  Revel or cringe in your newfound knowledge.

Theta, it doesn't surprise me at all about writing skills in regular English classes.. try having a class of 8th graders just write me a simple observation and I end up with at least half of the class not forming complete thoughts... and I am not going anywhere near handwriting problems.. 


Lol, thankfully when i was an eigth grader all three years ago, i was in a GATE english class, so by that time we were writing essays on To Kill a Mockingbird and The Giver (how good they were, i have no idea).  Well, Matthew D, here's to hoping that in the next few years laptops will replace notebooks and all you'll ever have to see is typed nonsense.
The words on the mysterious door read:
"Fancy hearing cake."