Parallel Fiction

[Chuck Charbeneau]

I'm not going to call it fan fiction, and here's why:

I've noticed, having both worked in the gaming industry as well as being an absolute gaming nerd, that as a game rises in popularity, so too does the number of authors interested in writing about the adventures and hi-jinks of their favorite group of <INSERTNAME OF ADVENTURINGBANDHERE>.  Look at Weiss/Hickman et al, Niles, Greenwood, Salvatore et al, the list goes on-and-on.

The Shadow Run and Whitewolf universes as well have spawned some very good fiction written by both the game developers and well written players turned authors.

This being said, is there any word from the author regarding the expansion of his universe by other authors (especially once the rpg streets)?  The TV show is a very interesting step in that direction (unless he's writing all of the scripts), and as a closet writer, and love to cut my teeth on the Butcherian laws of physics, er, magic.

I understand the implications of loosening his ownership of the Dresden name, and elements specific to Harry's existence, but it's a big world out there, and I'd be interested to see what else might develop, given the rules (ie. the RPG) on which this particular universe is based.

Jim would become our Rodenberry.

*looks all dreamy*

Jim Butcher and Gene....THAT would have been an interesting author's panel.

[finarvyn]

I would think that it might depend upon which characters or situations were used.

Star Trek is a very modular series with each character ending a mission in pretty much the same state as he/she began it, so a zillion stories can be generated and read in pretty much any order.

Star Wars is not. It is more linear and authors are all coordinated so that they don't conflict events with one another. Even here, most of the events in the fiction are occuring far after the events of the movies so as to not conflict with George Lucus' part of the story.

White Wolf's World of Darkness campaign setting has inspired many tie-in novels, but I consider it to be very different because WoD is not based on a single set of characters. Authors can create characters at a whim and do whatever to them without conflicting with the creations of other authors in other books.

The big problem with Dresden Files is that Jim is still alive and writing about Harry. (Take this in context; it's not a bad thing! ) The TV show can follow the pre-determined events of the books, or it can choose a more modular approach and fill in minor cases in between books, but if it becomes really linear it could have problems staying true to the series.

Fan fiction (or "parallel" fiction) has this same potential problem. The ideal solution might be to have Harry-like characters in a totally different place: "Okay, this campaign is based on this guy who's the only Wizard listed in the L.A. phone book..."

[Mario Di Giacomo]

Here's the thing.  In cases like Star Trek & Star Wars, the officially endorsed fiction is checked and vetted by the copyright holders (Paramount & Lucasfilm), who have final say on just what gets published.

In the case of a Dresden tie-in novel, if Jim doesn't give permission, it's still fan fiction, no matter how well-written (and I've seen fanfic written better than the "official" works, like Kid Dynamo).  And even if _he_ doesn't mind, I'm willing to bet his publisher will.

Y'see, there's another aspect to this.  I'm an admin on another board, connected to a specific comics series.  And we recently had to impose a solid ban on fanfic, simply to prevent the creator from potential legal implications.  And that's in a different medium entirely. 

Picture this.  A fan writes a story where Harry becomes king of the Green Court.  In a later book, Jim has the same thing happen.  The fan decides that Jim took his idea and asks for credit (at best) or money (at worst).  And it all ends up in court.

It's happened before.  And a lot of creators are skittish.

So there are really only a few possible approaches.

1: Ban all tie-in fiction, approved or otherwise.
2: Allow certain stories, but maintain a tight hold on what happens to the characters (this is Lucasfilm's approach).
3: Allow certain stories, but decree that they are not necessarily "canon"  (see Star Trek).

I'm not sure which route Jim might take.

[Chuck Charbeneau]

This is specifically why I wrote this:

I understand the implications of loosening his ownership of the Dresden name, and elements specific to Harry's existence, but it's a big world out there, and I'd be interested to see what else might develop, given the rules (ie. the RPG) on which this particular universe is based.

which was my way to indicate my understanding of copyright and trademark, meanwhile suggesting that if the universe structure around the rules and laws of magic are adhered to - the cannon, if you will - (and the character of Harry Dresden was understood to exist, but was not relevant to the course of a particular story line), then parallel fiction would be interesting, and what was Jim's take on this, given that derivative works were already in process with the creation of the game.

[neminem]

So there are really only a few possible approaches.

1: Ban all tie-in fiction, approved or otherwise.
2: Allow certain stories, but maintain a tight hold on what happens to the characters (this is Lucasfilm's approach).
3: Allow certain stories, but decree that they are not necessarily "canon"  (see Star Trek).

I'm not sure which route Jim might take.

Actually, Jim already stated precisely which road he wants to be taken: I don't have a quote, but he's pretty much said, "feel free to write fanfic, but make sure I don't see it ever, or I might have to sue you".

That is a good question, though, about derivative works that don't use any of the characters of his novels, merely the world. I've seen some good published fiction of that sort, in a handful of different worlds - some of the Valdemar short story collections come particularly to mind. Obviously, Jim would have to ok stories both generally and per-story, but I could see that being a neat idea. Of course, that would also take up more of Jim's time that he could use on writing...

[samstarfire]

I don't think this will happen with the Dresden files, although it certainly might. Jim Butcher has a very unique style, and it wouldn't be good if people started to ruin that by sullying the dresden name. So I don't think taht Jim would alow this at all. But for unofficial fancition, my friend has started a story on fanfiction.net, and so has someone else.

[Shiloh]

The Star Wars novels also tend to be overseen by an editorial board that plans storylines, then has authors work on those lines; the New Jedi Order series was done that way.  R.A. Salvatore received a lot of hate mail over the events of Vector Prime, when it was the board and Lucas that mandated said events.

As far as fan fiction/parallel fiction goes, I don't quite get the allure.  I understand paying homage to a writer and his creations, and Jim has created something really special here.  But here's the catch - such stories can be kept out of these forums easily enough.  Still, people are posting elsewhere.  And if in a future Dresden novel "X" occurs, and someone wrote something similar to "X" and posted it somewhere, there will be the feeling that the idea was stolen.

Some years ago I was working on a science fiction novel, and had a ship caught in tractor beams.  The pilot escaped by firing missiles at the capturing vessel to break up the beam.  Two years later something very similar showed up in a Star Wars novel.  Even though there was no way that author could have know about my idea (my writings never approached the show-to-my-friends state, much less send-to-publishers), I still felt cheated.  At the very least, I knew I couldn't use that scene, because I'd get hit with "so and so did that exact same thing!"

[Redefinition]

Modified for...personal reasons.
Personally I love the Dresden Files and look forward to the offical RPG...don't know so much about Star Trek though.

[iago]

All in my entire question is will anybody try to take action against me if do I set it up? Seeing as rpol.net is fairly well known in the role playing community and can be easily found if one is looking. Is it basically just fan fiction in a games clothing? Oh and would I be attacked brutally by the makers of the official RPG game for infringing on their concepts…even though I don’t actually know any of them.

You talk like someone who's gotten kicked in the crotch one too many times.  Attacked brutally?  No; we don't attack brutally.  Please don't assume that we're the sort of people who would.

As far as the "fan fic" stuff goes, the main idea is that you shouldn't CALL ATTENTION to it. Jim probably isn't going to deliberately go looking for this stuff, on an agenda of "intentional ignorance" ... So your best game plan would be to, say, not mention it at all here.

[Redefinition]

Yeah I just have a funny way of speakin is all. Thanks for that I'll take it into consideration...*has a sudden attack of amnesia*...er why am I here again?

[squidnurse]

It's an interesting discussion, and I think I understand (and don't disagree with) Jim's perspective on fan-fiction, etc.  But lemme throw this out there:

In my version of a perfect world, Jim would give his blessing (and perhaps even contribute) to an anthology of short stories featuring either minor or new characters by aspiring writers set in the Dresdenverse, so long as they didn't conflict with his planned vision.  Of course, he'd retain absolute creative control and copyrights (though that might lead to absolute corruption... ).  But it'd let some folk flex their fan-fic muscles (heh...alliteration) and get a foot in the door of being published.  It would also work to satisfy the endless craving for more Dresden-related stories.  For an example that's hopefully general enough not to set off any red flags, bear in mind that Earth's a big planet with lots of cities and countries, and there's more to what's going on in Harry's world than just Chicago...

This might be something that's more able to be realized after the TV series and RPG take off and Harry Dresden becomes a somewhat bigger property with more media tie-ins.  Or it may never be (my version of a perfect world also contains both of the TV series Wizards and Warriors and Firefly running for several complete seasons; I've grown used to disappointment).

[iago]

In my version of a perfect world, Jim would give his blessing (and perhaps even contribute) to an anthology of short stories featuring either minor or new characters by aspiring writers set in the Dresdenverse, so long as they didn't conflict with his planned vision.  Of course, he'd retain absolute creative control and copyrights (though that might lead to absolute corruption... ).  But it'd let some folk flex their fan-fic muscles (heh...alliteration) and get a foot in the door of being published.  It would also work to satisfy the endless craving for more Dresden-related stories.  For an example that's hopefully general enough not to set off any red flags, bear in mind that Earth's a big planet with lots of cities and countries, and there's more to what's going on in Harry's world than just Chicago...

I cannot conceive of a legal environment in which such a project even has the barest breath of hope of happening.

[squidnurse]

I cannot conceive of a legal environment in which such a project even has the barest breath of hope of happening.

Which is a kind of a shame, really.  But it is, after all, not a perfect world.  Not even close.

I have fond memories of reading Wild Cards and Thieves' World; those were the sort of books coming out when I was really getting into Cool Stuff.  Of course, there wasn't just one creator in those series.  The folks who put those together owned the rights to their individual characters and came together to create a new shared universe.  So whatever parallels might be found between their experience and the idea of an anthology set in Jim's already created universe aren't really exact.  But the idea of several storytellers collaborating to flesh out a world where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts has always intrigued me.  Part of why I dig RPGs and look forward to this particular one.

[Valiar Marcus]

I cannot conceive of a legal environment in which such a project even has the barest breath of hope of happening.

Which is a kind of a shame, really.  But it is, after all, not a perfect world.  Not even close.

Well, it's not completely impossible.  But it'd by necessity be limited to established authors, and would likely have to wait until after Jim has wrapped up his plans for the Dresdenverse and moved on.  I'm reminded of the 'Man-Kzin Wars' books that were released about 10 years back (or was it 15...) based on the Ringworld universe by Larry Niven.  These books (which I found quite good) had shorter stories written by other authors, some actually using Niven's characters.  But while it's possible, I agree with Fred that it's exceedingly unlikely.

[KnightKD]

Hypothetical questions of an important nature:

If I were going to run a play by post or instant message based roleplaying game somewhere online, using the Dresden world would it be legal to do so?

How about using the characters from the books?

This has become somewhat of a grey question and I'm sincerely hoping it can be answered with a simple yes or no and put to rest.

Thanks for any help.