Author Topic: Choices  (Read 127 times)

Offline cander891

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Choices
« on: Yesterday at 01:10:55 PM »
Recently I have been thinking a lot about Mirror Mirror, specifically what choices Harry could change that would have a profound ripple effect to himself and the series. Therefore, I started a reread with that specific question in mind.

Now -- I think that realistically, this change has to happen either before Storm Front OR up to the end of Grave Peril. I don't think it can go any deeper in the series to be effective.

With that said, thus far I have reread SF and FM and here is what I have so far:

Storm Front

- Beginning of book, Harry takes Marcone's offer to sit out the investigation.
- End of book, Harry choses to use the Dark Energy at the Sell's lake house to take out Viktor (This I believe would lead to him also taking out Morgan).
Fool Moon
- Early in the book, Harry choses to work for Marcone.
- Middle of book, Harry takes Chauncey's offer.
- End of book, Harry succumbs and continues to use the Wolf Belt

I will be moving to Grave Peril later and will add. In the meantime, feel free to opine. I believe this may have been a topic years ago, but I wanted to take a new look at it.



Offline peterwiggin94

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Re: Choices
« Reply #1 on: Yesterday at 01:43:57 PM »
Assuming Jim hasn't changed his mind, he's told us what the big choice was. It's at the end of Grave Peril when Harry goes to save Susan. Our Harry summons a bunch of vengeful ghosts to kill the vampires when he could have absorbed their power and lashed out. The other Harry does the later.

Offline cander891

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Re: Choices
« Reply #2 on: Yesterday at 01:56:28 PM »
Assuming Jim hasn't changed his mind, he's told us what the big choice was. It's at the end of Grave Peril when Harry goes to save Susan. Our Harry summons a bunch of vengeful ghosts to kill the vampires when he could have absorbed their power and lashed out. The other Harry does the later.

Was that a word of Jim? I missed that then. I knew the choice in GP would make my list and was the most likely. But I didn't know Jim actually confirmed it.

Offline Mira

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Re: Choices
« Reply #3 on: Yesterday at 02:35:55 PM »
Assuming Jim hasn't changed his mind, he's told us what the big choice was. It's at the end of Grave Peril when Harry goes to save Susan. Our Harry summons a bunch of vengeful ghosts to kill the vampires when he could have absorbed their power and lashed out. The other Harry does the later.

 I agree but see it a bit differently, 1] Agreed Harry chooses not to save Susan.. A bunch of possible ripples emanate from that.
A] Bianca lives, and whatever her plans were at the party when she was handing out come into play.  One being the Reds do not go to war prematurely with the White Council, lots of ripples emanate from that.. B] Susan ends up either dead or fully turned.. Obvious one, little Maggie is never conceived.. So for starters Harry then becomes the youngest in Eb's line to be sacrificed and Harry has no way to reverse the generational spell because he has no youngest Red Court Vampire to kill.. The Red Court stays fully in power, thus the Fomor are held in check... Or are they?  Harry neither becomes Winter Knight nor Warden of Demonreach.. Harry doesn't attempt suicide and have his soul walk about.   The Weapons in the Vault cannot be retrieved by Harry.  The Battle of Chicago is lost and the Titian cannot be stopped... There is a lot more but you get the point..

Offline g33k

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Re: Choices
« Reply #4 on: Yesterday at 06:12:50 PM »
Assuming Jim hasn't changed his mind, he's told us what the big choice was. It's at the end of Grave Peril when Harry goes to save Susan. Our Harry summons a bunch of vengeful ghosts to kill the vampires when he could have absorbed their power and lashed out. The other Harry does the later.
Do you have a source or cite for that?
Because while Jim told us happens "at the end of Grave Peril," the details of what that choice is (and how close to "the end" is close-enough to count) are oft-debated; but that one looks frankly-improbable.

Here's the only WoJ I know of:
Quote
Jim:  It’s going to be a different character because it’s going to be Dresden as he would have been if he made one choice differently, and the fallout from that effect on his life...
In this case it will be the big decision at the end of Grave Peril.
Exactly which decision is "the big decision" has AFAIK never been disclosed.  As I say, I'm happy to be shown to be mistaken, if you've got a WoJ citation!

Why do I find your "Harry absorbs the ghosts' power" proposal so improbable?  Because that would be Harry performing a mini-Darkhallow; just pulling the concept and the methods out of his hat (a hat, let it be noted, that Harry does not wear!) in the spur of the moment (and getting it right!) based on essentially zero experience with necromancy.  Later, we see how a pile of very-experienced professional necromancers hadn't been able to figure it out, all vying for the lost Word of Kemmler.  Harry is already too much of a Special Snowflake character; if he was also out-necromancing the professional necromancers, I'd find that far too OTT (just doing a mass-summons that way is already kind of a Big Deal).

My own main theory is that "the choice" was when Harry decided to let Susan walk away, at the very end of the book.  He made that choice out of selfless love for Susan, and as we've seen Love is a Big Freaking Deal in the Dresdenverse.  Had he instead convinced her to say -- applied emotional pressure or coercion -- out of his own selfishness and fear, the outcome could have been very different indeed.

My secondary theory is much darker... when Harry faced-off against Bianca, she offered him a choice:  to let her have Susan (already half-turned) as "recompense" for how Harry "took away" her own preferred pet, and Bianca would consider the matter settled.  Maybe Mirror!Harry accepted that choice.  I don't like it as well, but that's my emotional reaction; IMO there's several ancillary details that line up very nicely, almost looking like Jim intentionally wrote-in foreshadowing elements.
 
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 06:23:03 PM by g33k »

Offline EBRIEN

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Re: Choices
« Reply #5 on: Yesterday at 07:02:15 PM »
If we consider Harry as a decent person even in the Mirror universe and makes a decision that, in effect, is decent (but questionable--ie. Molly helping her friends), then maybe something subtle becomes much more---adding up to him taking up the coin of Lashiel.

I'm most curious about how we'll find him in Mirror Mirror. Is he under the radar or out and hello on wheels, so to speak.

B

Offline g33k

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Re: Choices
« Reply #6 on: Today at 12:22:15 AM »
If we consider Harry as a decent person even in the Mirror universe and makes a decision that, in effect, is decent (but questionable--ie. Molly helping her friends), then maybe something subtle becomes much more---adding up to him taking up the coin of Lashiel.

I'm most curious about how we'll find him in Mirror Mirror. Is he under the radar or out and hello on wheels, so to speak. 

Mirror!Harry is not a decent person any longer, no; he has gone full-on villain.  Not sure if he's just gone overboard on the "fighting the good fight" theme, embracing "acceptable losses" in collateral damage, or if  he's actually working towards objectively bad ends.

I'm pretty sure there is WoJ specifying that one  Mirror!Harry's  closest allies is (brace yourself) ... Mavra.  And he has discovered how to contact/summon other  Alt!Harry's  from other universes, and has been substituting them in for himself, when he's deeply trapped... letting those Harry's die in his place.

His foes keep thinking they've "killed Harry Dresden" because they have... just not their Harry Dresden, the one native to their own universe, who keeps slipping out the side door while the summoned Harry dies.