Grey Council… will we meet it in TM? Who is on it?

[Mira]

I mean, Harry wasn't disguised at Chichen Itza.  If Langtry was there, he saw who they were arriving to bail out.

Also, Fuego is Spanish for Fire.  Harry didn't make it up, he just maps it to his fire spell because second languages are sufficient mental insulation.  He has a line in the flashback in GS where he first comes up with it against the Walker that references it being from Spanish class.  The shout at the battle was someone ordering the human mercenaries to start shooting, right before Ebenezar killed them all, and the commander was speaking Spanish because it's Mexico.

Perhaps, I seem to remember when he learned the fire spell, Harry said he did make it up because the way he says it or spells it it isn't either really Spanish or Latin.

[SerScot]

I honestly wonder if some of Langtry’s animosity toward Harry is simply mosdirection.  Langtry isn’t stupid.  He can’t really believe after everything Harry has done that Harry plans to throw in with the dark side.  Further we know (see, Hendricks; Mort) can and does misread people and put his own prejudices first.

[g33k]

... that someone shouts "Fuego" (potentially a time traveling Harry) ...

Oh, that?
"Fuego"?
That's "fire" in Spanish.
From context, it appears to have been the signal for the (mundane) riflemen on the walls to open fire.

I don't know if it's correct usage -- as an order to "fire weapons" vs fire as "the burning of candles & hearths (& buildings when Harry's done with them)."  I assume Jim's capable of having gotten a correct translation; it being incorrect might therefore mean that it's a clue...  Or, maybe, that Jim just got lazy (mis)using Google Translate...

[g33k]

... I also kinda like the idea that Langtry is on the Grey Council. I could see him having a Snape-like arc in the end ...

I strongly suspect Langtry is more-or-less a "white hat" character; just with a bit of a dick-ish personality.

You don't have to be nice to be "fighting the good fight;" nor is being "nice" proof of being fundamentally "good" (after all, Lasciel's Shadow was almost-always "nice" to Harry; Marcone is routinely polite; etc).

And frankly, Langtry is both a brilliant politician & supremely well-connected; the idea that Ebenezar could institute a secret "Grey Council" with multiple WC-members right under Arthur's nose is unlikely at best.

He's also too bright to genuinely not be seeing the "Black Council" signs that Harry & Ebenezar were seeing, and almost-certainly knows that Ebenezer's exactly the sort of person who's going to ignore the "official position" of ignoring those signs, and take steps to counter the "Black Council."

I don't expect either one of them are exactly "thrilled" to be on yet another wizards' council together, but... "needs must, when the devil drives."

[Mira]

I strongly suspect Langtry is more-or-less a "white hat" character; just with a bit of a dick-ish personality.

You don't have to be nice to be "fighting the good fight;" nor is being "nice" proof of being fundamentally "good" (after all, Lasciel's Shadow was almost-always "nice" to Harry; Marcone is routinely polite; etc).

And frankly, Langtry is both a brilliant politician & supremely well-connected; the idea that Ebenezar could institute a secret "Grey Council" with multiple WC-members right under Arthur's nose is unlikely at best.

He's also too bright to genuinely not be seeing the "Black Council" signs that Harry & Ebenezar were seeing, and almost-certainly knows that Ebenezer's exactly the sort of person who's going to ignore the "official position" of ignoring those signs, and take steps to counter the "Black Council."

I don't expect either one of them are exactly "thrilled" to be on yet another wizards' council together, but... "needs must, when the devil drives."

I agree with most of this, and as the Merlin, Langtry has to appear above the fray in a very "Mission Impossible" kind of way.  In other words especially if Harry's mission and then the Grey Council's involvement really went south,  Langtry would have to maintain a level of deniability.  As in," What? A small rouge group of wizards calling themselves, the Grey Council tried to take down the Red Court? Shocking,first I've heard of it, I will order my Wardens to investigate immediately!" 

[cander891]

Also, Fuego is Spanish for Fire.  Harry didn't make it up, he just maps it to his fire spell because second languages are sufficient mental insulation.  He has a line in the flashback in GS where he first comes up with it against the Walker that references it being from Spanish class.  The shout at the battle was someone ordering the human mercenaries to start shooting, right before Ebenezar killed them all, and the commander was speaking Spanish because it's Mexico.

I've heard other people say this and I do not buy into it. There was a thread with the times it was mentioned in text and even Harry notices it. Jim is very specific in the way he does things, this sticks out. I believe there was more to it than just Fuego is the Spanish word for fire.

Maybe I'm wrong though

[Mira]

I've heard other people say this and I do not buy into it. There was a thread with the times it was mentioned in text and even Harry notices it. Jim is very specific in the way he does things, this sticks out. I believe there was more to it than just Fuego is the Spanish word for fire.

Maybe I'm wrong though

I agree, because I remember, though I cannot remember if it was Harry saying it in one of the books, or WOJ, that Harry says he made up the word as a kid after he got decent at the fire spell, that it wasn't really Latin or Spanish, more of a combo with Harry's own slant.  Reason being Harry wanted the word for that spell to be unique to him so it couldn't be used against him.

[cander891]

I agree, because I remember, though I cannot remember if it was Harry saying it in one of the books, or WOJ, that Harry says he made up the word as a kid after he got decent at the fire spell, that it wasn't really Latin or Spanish, more of a combo with Harry's own slant.  Reason being Harry wanted the word for that spell to be unique to him so it couldn't be used against him.

It was also said a couple times its not just the name but in the way you say it. Which is why the phrasing in Changes stands out, because Harry notices it.

[Mira]

It was also said a couple times its not just the name but in the way you say it. Which is why the phrasing in Changes stands out, because Harry notices it.

So a few possibilities, 1] Time traveling Harry.. Possible, but likely?  Doubtful because what would be a reason for it? To save Susan? Possibly, but it failed.  To save the Red Court somehow?  Maybe if keeping the Fomor at bey was critical to later events.. 2] Justin didn't die and knew that Harry used that word and is screwing with him... Maybe, but unlikely.. 3] Elaine would know he used that word, is very alive and is talented enough to be part of the Grey Council.. So her way of telling Harry that she is still in the fight..

[g33k]

It was also said a couple times its not just the name but in the way you say it...

But that's for a name -- the True Name -- of a being.
Not (that I have ever seen) other words and their "correct"  pronunciation (q.v. Harry and his Latin).
 

[Mira]

But that's for a name -- the True Name -- of a being.
Not (that I have ever seen) other words and their "correct"  pronunciation (q.v. Harry and his Latin).
[/quote

We all understand that Harry's Latin sucks though it has improved because he finally applied himself to study it while Molly was his apprentice.  However the words and how they are said for spells matter..  Harry knows how he says the word, "Fuego" when he is about to fry or toast something, and I bet he knows when he hears some other wizard use it in a way that he thought was unique to him.

[KurtinStGeorge]

I don't know if Langtry is on the Grey Council.  In fact, I hope he isn't.  I like the idea of several wizards on the Council having to run everything behind Langtry's back.  However, he could be Grey Council.

I do not think we will see any members of the Grey Council through most of Twelve Months.  The exception might be a scene between Ebenezer and Harry, as Eb will lose it when he hears Harry and Lara are making public appearances together.

Here is where I think we could be introduced to a new; for us, member of the Grey Council.  We know that LTW agreed to talk to unspecified others, to speak for Harry, to ask permission to tell Harry more about being Starborn.  LTW told Harry he would have an answer in a year.  That puts this meeting near the end of Twelve Months.  I think it is a good guess the others LTW will speak to are the Grey Council. 

Much was made of LTW and Matha Liberty's advancing age in Peace Talks and Battle Ground.  River Shoulders specifically said that LTW was nearing the end of his journey.  So, either LTW shows up with another member of Grey Council and introduces him or her to Harry; because LTW knows he won't be around much longer, and together they tell Harry what it means to be Starborn or LTW passes away, leaving Harry thinking he will never learn about being Starborn only to have this unknown member of the Grey Council show up and introduce him or herself.  I suppose if Arthur Langtry is a member of the Grey Council, this would be a near perfect way to show us.  It would shock the hell out of Harry; plus, my guess is the knowledge Harry will learn should be jaw dropping as well.  It has to be to be such a secret.