Author Topic: Grey Council… will we meet it in TM? Who is on it?  (Read 1996 times)

Offline SerScot

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1603
    • View Profile
Grey Council… will we meet it in TM? Who is on it?
« on: March 11, 2025, 07:57:04 PM »
I hope we do.  I think Langtry is on it.  Just a gut feeling.  I suspect Harry was expelled from the WC to give him more freedom of action.

Discuss…
"Maybe there will be a laundry emergency at the Carpenter house, and Harry shows up with detergent saying, 'I am Harry of the White Council. And I come back to you now at the turn of the TideTM.'" -  Vairelome 9/25/2011

Mab =/= Molly

Malcom =/= KotC

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24535
    • View Profile
Re: Grey Council… will we meet it in TM? Who is on it?
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2025, 04:06:09 AM »
I hope we do.  I think Langtry is on it.  Just a gut feeling.  I suspect Harry was expelled from the WC to give him more freedom of action.

Discuss…

Langtree is on it, he was mentioned if I remember correctly in Changes when they finally showed up at CI.. Eb was also part of it, but off the top of my head I cannot remember who else showed up.  I wouldn't be shocked if we find out that Morgan was part of it and that Rashid is part of it..

Offline SerScot

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1603
    • View Profile
Re: Grey Council… will we meet it in TM? Who is on it?
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2025, 03:18:17 PM »
Langtree is on it, he was mentioned if I remember correctly in Changes when they finally showed up at CI.. Eb was also part of it, but off the top of my head I cannot remember who else showed up.  I wouldn't be shocked if we find out that Morgan was part of it and that Rashid is part of it..

Wasn’t Morgan dead before it was formed?
"Maybe there will be a laundry emergency at the Carpenter house, and Harry shows up with detergent saying, 'I am Harry of the White Council. And I come back to you now at the turn of the TideTM.'" -  Vairelome 9/25/2011

Mab =/= Molly

Malcom =/= KotC

Offline g33k

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2490
    • View Profile
Re: Grey Council… will we meet it in TM? Who is on it?
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2025, 04:16:11 PM »
Langtree is on it, he was mentioned if I remember correctly in Changes when they finally showed up at CI.. Eb was also part of it, but off the top of my head I cannot remember who else showed up.  I wouldn't be shocked if we find out that Morgan was part of it and that Rashid is part of it..
Eb and Odin, I recall.  Lea (and/or Mab, by proxy) too.
I don't recall any clear signs of Langtry being there...?   (there is a puppy on my lap, I cannot go get a copy of Changes to re-read the scenes at Chichen Itza).

Offline SerScot

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1603
    • View Profile
Re: Grey Council… will we meet it in TM? Who is on it?
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2025, 04:21:43 PM »
Eb and Odin, I recall.  Lea (and/or Mab, by proxy) too.
I don't recall any clear signs of Langtry being there...?   (there is a puppy on my lap, I cannot go get a copy of Changes to re-read the scenes at Chichen Itza).

I strongly suspect Langtree is on it but I don’t recall any confirmation that Langtree is a member.
"Maybe there will be a laundry emergency at the Carpenter house, and Harry shows up with detergent saying, 'I am Harry of the White Council. And I come back to you now at the turn of the TideTM.'" -  Vairelome 9/25/2011

Mab =/= Molly

Malcom =/= KotC

Offline g33k

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2490
    • View Profile
Re: Grey Council… will we meet it in TM? Who is on it?
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2025, 04:32:38 PM »
I strongly suspect Langtree is on it but I don’t recall any confirmation that Langtree is a member.
Agreed.

Also:  I suspect one of the things that gives Ebenezer a fair degree of heartburn is keeping Harry & Arthur each unaware that the other one is also secretly a member of the Gray Council.
 

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24535
    • View Profile
Re: Grey Council… will we meet it in TM? Who is on it?
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2025, 05:07:39 PM »
I strongly suspect Langtree is on it but I don’t recall any confirmation that Langtree is a member.

Langtree showed up when the Grey Council showed up, I doubt that was a mere coincidence.

Offline g33k

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2490
    • View Profile
Re: Grey Council… will we meet it in TM? Who is on it?
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2025, 06:35:17 PM »
Langtree showed up when the Grey Council showed up, I doubt that was a mere coincidence.
What makes you say that?

It isn't in my copy of Changes.
"... a dozen separate green bolts of lightning fell all at  the same time ... Standing on the ball court were twelve figures."

One of them was Ebenezar.  None of the others were identified then.

One other is clearly Vadderung; the "tall lean figure" who opened the Way (to bring in Ebenezar's Kenku) is later
revealed as such when he opens the Way for the Gray Council to depart.

I don't think any of the other GC members are revealed in Chichen Itza.

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24535
    • View Profile
Re: Grey Council… will we meet it in TM? Who is on it?
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2025, 08:03:20 PM »
What makes you say that?

It isn't in my copy of Changes.
"... a dozen separate green bolts of lightning fell all at  the same time ... Standing on the ball court were twelve figures."

One of them was Ebenezar.  None of the others were identified then.

One other is clearly Vadderung; the "tall lean figure" who opened the Way (to bring in Ebenezar's Kenku) is later
revealed as such when he opens the Way for the Gray Council to depart.

I don't think any of the other GC members are revealed in Chichen Itza.

You're right it has been a while since I read Changes and I got the impression that the tall lean figure was Langtree..

Offline g33k

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2490
    • View Profile
Re: Grey Council… will we meet it in TM? Who is on it?
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2025, 04:36:34 AM »
... I got the impression that the tall lean figure was Langtree.

To be fair, Langtry is another who'd be described that way.

Jim's inordinately fond of "tall, lean figures."  His own Mary-SueProtagonist is another!

Amongst a dozen grey-cloaked combat-wizards, Langtry could possibly have passed unnoticed by Harry.  But I suspect Langtry wasn't there -- the description of his battle-array was specific, and unusual; and his staff was also unusual in that it was a pure white wood, unmarked.  I suspect Harry would have noticed.

Offline Cats_are_evil

  • Lurker
  • Posts: 8
    • View Profile
Re: Grey Council… will we meet it in TM? Who is on it?
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2025, 05:38:44 AM »
Remember that Langtry is known as a ward and defensive wizard. Would have been noticeable on the battlefield.

Offline peterwiggin94

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
Re: Grey Council… will we meet it in TM? Who is on it?
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2025, 01:11:36 PM »
Yeah but we know almost nothing about the Grey Council's part of the battle. I just skimmed through the battle chapter and we're told that Eb uses the Black Staff, that someone shouts "Fuego" (potentially a time traveling Harry), and that Odin/Vadderung helped open a Way. Even though there's a dozen figures, there's no description of anyone outside Eb and Odin/Vadderung that I was able to see. I suspect that the Gatekeeper is one of the 12 because Eb says something about traveling being easier with "a carpet to scuff your feet on" and, when Harry sees the Gatekeeper at the Outer Gates, he uses a flying carpet. We also know that the Gatekeeper was familiar with the Ways. That's still 9 figures that we know nothing about so there's plenty of room for Langtry.

I also kinda like the idea that Langtry is on the Grey Council. I could see him having a Snape-like arc in the end. It would go a long way to explain why people like Listens and Eb still support Langtry if they knew he secretly acts like Harry wants him to act while simultaneously keeping the White Council as neutral as possible. Langtry is also intelligent enough to keep his wards hidden from obvious view to give the White Council as much of a cover as possible.

Offline Mira

  • Needs A Life
  • ***
  • Posts: 24535
    • View Profile
Re: Grey Council… will we meet it in TM? Who is on it?
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2025, 09:04:01 PM »
Yeah but we know almost nothing about the Grey Council's part of the battle. I just skimmed through the battle chapter and we're told that Eb uses the Black Staff, that someone shouts "Fuego" (potentially a time traveling Harry), and that Odin/Vadderung helped open a Way. Even though there's a dozen figures, there's no description of anyone outside Eb and Odin/Vadderung that I was able to see. I suspect that the Gatekeeper is one of the 12 because Eb says something about traveling being easier with "a carpet to scuff your feet on" and, when Harry sees the Gatekeeper at the Outer Gates, he uses a flying carpet. We also know that the Gatekeeper was familiar with the Ways. That's still 9 figures that we know nothing about so there's plenty of room for Langtry.

I also kinda like the idea that Langtry is on the Grey Council. I could see him having a Snape-like arc in the end. It would go a long way to explain why people like Listens and Eb still support Langtry if they knew he secretly acts like Harry wants him to act while simultaneously keeping the White Council as neutral as possible. Langtry is also intelligent enough to keep his wards hidden from obvious view to give the White Council as much of a cover as possible.

Yeah, the "Fuego" part is weird, I thought that was a word that only Harry used and was actually made up by him.  There is no mention of fire though when it is said.  Isn't that the word that Harry uses when he want's to burn the crap out of something? I also agree that Langtry is smart enough not to reveal his identity in any way.  I think though if Rashid was there he'd stand out because he is so tall... On the other hand Harry was pretty busy and occupied when the Grey Council arrived and did their thing, he may have missed a lot that was going on or just simply got some of his observations wrong.

Offline Snark Knight

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 3940
    • View Profile
Re: Grey Council… will we meet it in TM? Who is on it?
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2025, 02:34:05 AM »
Agreed.
Also:  I suspect one of the things that gives Ebenezer a fair degree of heartburn is keeping Harry & Arthur each unaware that the other one is also secretly a member of the Gray Council.

I mean, Harry wasn't disguised at Chichen Itza.  If Langtry was there, he saw who they were arriving to bail out.

Also, Fuego is Spanish for Fire.  Harry didn't make it up, he just maps it to his fire spell because second languages are sufficient mental insulation.  He has a line in the flashback in GS where he first comes up with it against the Walker that references it being from Spanish class.  The shout at the battle was someone ordering the human mercenaries to start shooting, right before Ebenezar killed them all, and the commander was speaking Spanish because it's Mexico.

Offline Lord Kinbote

  • Participant
  • *
  • Posts: 47
    • View Profile
Re: Grey Council… will we meet it in TM? Who is on it?
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2025, 03:31:34 PM »
Maybe the GC member shouting "Fuego" is Carlos.