James Butcher

[EBRIEN]

Have any of you read his novels? I'm interested in something new and I'm wondering what you think.

Thanks!

Bri

[magnuskn]

Yeah, I read his two first novels and they are... fine? He went to the Jim Butcher school of making his protagonist a bit of a butt monkey, but in the case of Grimshaw Griswald Grimsby, he went a bit overboard and made him just pathetic in too many regards. While I definitely will get the third book of the series, coming out this month, so far the character hasn't convinced me yet that he is a worthy main protagonist, where Jim made Harry a bit pathetic, but also a lot of interesting in one book and has kept improving the character ever since.

[EBRIEN]

thanks!

[Mira]

Yeah, I read his two first novels and they are... fine? He went to the Jim Butcher school of making his protagonist a bit of a butt monkey, but in the case of Grimshaw Griswald Grimsby, he went a bit overboard and made him just pathetic in too many regards. While I definitely will get the third book of the series, coming out this month, so far the character hasn't convinced me yet that he is a worthy main protagonist, where Jim made Harry a bit pathetic, but also a lot of interesting in one book and has kept improving the character ever since.

Harry did have issues but he never was pathetic as you say, not even a little bit.  For a character in my opinion, he or she has to be powerless to act or even care to act.  That was never Harry, his problems made him more complicated, which made him more interesting.  I believe there is a fine line authors have to walk, and the crossing of interesting characters who face adversity in their lives verses the woe is me types.. Or pathetic.

[magnuskn]

I think if we get into this, we'd be squabbling over the definition of the term "pathetic". From my definition of what it means to be "a bit pathetic", that's okay and also desirable, because it makes the character relatable. Harry being almost OCD-like chivalrous to women (even if they don't want it), not being able to pay his rent on time as a permanent state of his life up until the point of the first three books and being looked down by "real cops" for what they perceive to be a con man is all what I would personally view as being "a little pathetic". That is off-set a LOT by his other personality traits (loyalty, bravery, sense of humor, deductive power), his powers as a wizard and being a genuine badass when it counts.

For me, Harry being not perfect and having a few little pathetic traits mark him as a human being I have a much easier time engaging with than some hero without flaws. Contrary to Grimsby, who is such a woobie most of the time that it takes me somewhat out of the story and I have problems sympathizing with his problems because of that.

[Mira]

I think if we get into this, we'd be squabbling over the definition of the term "pathetic". From my definition of what it means to be "a bit pathetic", that's okay and also desirable, because it makes the character relatable. Harry being almost OCD-like chivalrous to women (even if they don't want it), not being able to pay his rent on time as a permanent state of his life up until the point of the first three books and being looked down by "real cops" for what they perceive to be a con man is all what I would personally view as being "a little pathetic". That is off-set a LOT by his other personality traits (loyalty, bravery, sense of humor, deductive power), his powers as a wizard and being a genuine badass when it counts.

Yes, it does depend on how you define the word pathetic, I don't see Harry as either a "poor thing," nor a poor excuse for a person.  I am not saying that he is perfect in all things, he isn't, and his faults to bite him in the rear, which makes him interesting.  I don't think he is pathetic because he freely made his own choices. Yes, he has trouble making the rent, not because if he wanted to he could easily make money to live well, but he chose to do other things with his life.. That hasn't changed I can see him even now losing all his money because he is trying to care for many made homeless by the battle.. He is a gentleman of the old school, he cannot change that, however that doesn't make him pathetic because he also respects and treats women equally.   

[Lord Kinbote]

Is it just me, or does anyone else suspect that James is being groomed to have the resume to take over the Dresden Files at some point/in case, or perhaps just write in the Dresden Universe?

[Mira]

Is it just me, or does anyone else suspect that James is being groomed to have the resume to take over the Dresden Files at some point/in case, or perhaps just write in the Dresden Universe?

Possible, like the rest of us, Jim is getting older, and still has a number of books to go to finish the series..  Yes, Twelve Months has had a pretty quick turn around of a year or two, but in the last ten years that is the exception not the rule.  Also he is interested and is writing other series at the same time, this spreads him thin, and one has to wonder if The Dresden Files is even a priority anymore.  Having his son take over the writing would help relieve the pressure on him, that's for sure.. 

[Lord Kinbote]

Yes, Twelve Months has had a pretty quick turn around of a year or two, . . .

I don't understand the quoted part.  Last book that was released was Battle Ground in 2020.  What am I missing?  I don't count The Law novella but even it was 2022.

Agree with the rest of your post.

[Mira]

I don't understand the quoted part.  Last book that was released was Battle Ground in 2020.  What am I missing?  I don't count The Law novella but even it was 2022.

Agree with the rest of your post.

I was referring to the fact that Jim apparently decided or said he decided after writing Battleground that he needed to fill in the gap between Battleground and the next book in the series, hence the need to write 12 Months... The fact that we may actually get it in our hot little hands with in two years is a big deal.  Sorry if that wasn't clear, blame it on the change to Daylight Savings Time this morning.  I wrote this post around 6:00 am which is really 5:00 am Standard Time, not sure were the 11:29 am time stamp came from... Long and the short of it, if the plan is 25 or more books including the BAT with three to five years between publishing, it will take close to fifty years,maybe more to write the entire series. That is excluding the writing of other series while writing The Dresden Files.. At this rate given my current age I know I will never know how it ends, and it is possible Jim will not live depending on his age when he started writing the series to finish it.. So it is just logical that he groom his son to finish it for him.

[magnuskn]

I think it always has been the way that Jim writes one Dresden book and then one in his other series, and so on. It's only that due to all the personal stuff he was going through, he has slowed down in the last decade.

I think it's a bit soon to say that he'd want to turn the Dresden Files over to James. First off, I think James wants to do his own thing and secondly, Jim is 53 years old and has a lot of time going before he gets his wish and dies at his keyboard one day. :p Unless he goes all GRRM for the BAT, I think things will be fine.

[Mira]

I think it always has been the way that Jim writes one Dresden book and then one in his other series, and so on. It's only that due to all the personal stuff he was going through, he has slowed down in the last decade.

I think it's a bit soon to say that he'd want to turn the Dresden Files over to James. First off, I think James wants to do his own thing and secondly, Jim is 53 years old and has a lot of time going before he gets his wish and dies at his keyboard one day. :p Unless he goes all GRRM for the BAT, I think things will be fine.

You never know...

[Lord Kinbote]

I'm not sure why anyone thinks that Butcher won't have other unexpected things pop up in his life that take up significant time and energy, and also slow his writing output.  If Butcher got back to his one every 12 or 18 months, the last book is 10 years away.  Even if he gets to a Dresden pace of every other year, the end is still 15+ years away.

Whether you pick 10 or 15 or think 20 years is more realistic, I'd bet the over (but hope that Butcher gets a co-author soon to increase the odds that the 63-YO me is around to read the last book).

[Mira]

I'm not sure why anyone thinks that Butcher won't have other unexpected things pop up in his life that take up significant time and energy, and also slow his writing output.  If Butcher got back to his one every 12 or 18 months, the last book is 10 years away.  Even if he gets to a Dresden pace of every other year, the end is still 15+ years away.

Whether you pick 10 or 15 or think 20 years is more realistic, I'd bet the over (but hope that Butcher gets a co-author soon to increase the odds that the 63-YO me is around to read the last book).

I feel your pain, I doubt that I will live to see the end of the series either..  I've been questioning for a few years now as to why we need this many books to tell the story in the first place?  How much has the story really advanced in the last few books?  What I am hoping for anyway in the next book is maybe finally finding out what or who protects Lord Raith?  What did Margaret find out that she was able to preplan her death curse so that if she couldn't kill him at least fix it so he couldn't feed... But then why isn't he dying?  I think all of that is important but those little tidbits have been left hanging out there since Blood Rites!  Lots of guesses, but no answers!

[Lord Kinbote]

Mira, are you confident that Mother Margaret is dead?  I'm not, even in the face of WOJs.  In writing 26 books and more about Dresden, I think Butcher may well have to engage in "willful misdirection" in answering questions, else his non-answers/refusals to answer have fans figuring out what Butcher wants to keep hidden for revelations at his own time.  In that regard, at times the series reminds me of Three's Company - can someone just have a conversation to explain things to Dresden, and avoid a lot of misunderstandings and avoidable conflict?  Since no one clues Dresden in on critical matters - like what does Starborn actually mean or do for Dresden - what are they hiding from Dresden and why?


I spent some time researching to see if it was impossible that Margaret had assumed the Leanansidhe mantle (like Mab, the Winter/Summer Ladies, the Winter/Summer Knights - a theory of mine).  It would be a bit awkward, though Lea does call Dresden 'my son' a few times.