A crescendo of deliberate continuity errors

[g33k]

... But actually I would celebrate anyways because December 25 is my birthday   

Well then Happy Birthday  too !!!
(my son's b'day is tomorrow!)
 

[Dina]

Thank you! And Happy birthday for him 

[Mira]

Happy belated birthday!  And a Happy New Year to all!

[Dina]

Thank you! 
And Happy New Year!

[LordDresden2]

Yes, I know. I am very aware, but I am not forced to like it. With moderation, it is ok, but sometimes it is too much, and he has already suffered more than enough.

I agree, JB overdoes it on that sometimes.  I've thought that throughout the series.  It's natural, given Harry's situation and life, that he'll often encounter painful situations and choices and problems, but sometimes JB lays it on too thick.

[LordDresden2]

I'm pretty sure it's going to be the reverse of that; things will be much worse in the Mirrorverse.

The book is particularly taking inspo from the old ST:TOS episode (where everything was worse).

The other thing I expect we'll see a lot of influence from is the old Jimmy Stewart movie It's a Wonderful Life, where the protag gets to see the alt-timeline if he hadn't been there just being himself, being a good person.

Susan _will_ be there... but maybe as a fully-turned Rampire?  Not Harry's friend!  No Maggie-Jr, ofc.

EvilHarry will be allied with Mavra.

Murphy will have spotted EvilHarry as a bad guy, and thus have zero trust for HarryPrime.

Michael won't have retired the way he did; he might be dead, he might just be much worse off -- loss and tragedy within his own family?



Worst of all, of course -- EvilHarry will wear a hat.

If we've got to do the alternity story (I've commented before that I tend to dread those, though I've seen exceptional good ones), what I would want to see is that EvilHarry's other choices led to both good and evil outcomes that didn't happen here, and some good and evil outcomes that happened here didn't there.

The thing is that every choice has effects, which in turn cause more effects, and every choice has good and bad consequences stemming from it.  I'll be disappointed if AlterHarry's choices led to either all-better or all-worse, because that's not not how choices work.

For an example from our time line:  Harry's unwise decision (and it was unwise, from the POV of Harry at that time) to hang out with Red-infected Susan led to Maggie.  That's good.  It also led to Shiro's agonizing torture-murder.  That's not good.  Maggie's existence is good...but it also enabled Harry's enslavement to Mab.  That's not good.

All choices produce multiple effects, even within a timeline, it's very rare for a choice to produce no good or no bad.

I'm sure the other time line will be worse overall, otherwise the story would be pointless.  But there really should be both good and bad from whatever the decision was.

[LordDresden2]

This is so awesome! I laughed at the evil hat joke and I can't believe I never thought about Harry soulgazing himself. That is incredibly clever.

That's an idea I never thought about!  It's a good question, I'd love to see someone ask it of JB (if they haven't already somewhere).  Would it even work?

For that matter, suppose someone broke the Fifth Law, and as a result a Wizard met up with himself or herself within one's own time line.  Could you soulgaze yourself?  That is, could, say, 50 year old Harry soulgaze 200 year old Harry?

[Dina]

So many possibilities

If we've got to do the alternity story (I've commented before that I tend to dread those, though I've seen exceptional good ones), what I would want to see is that EvilHarry's other choices led to both good and evil outcomes that didn't happen here, and some good and evil outcomes that happened here didn't there.

The thing is that every choice has effects, which in turn cause more effects, and every choice has good and bad consequences stemming from it.  I'll be disappointed if AlterHarry's choices led to either all-better or all-worse, because that's not not how choices work.

For an example from our time line:  Harry's unwise decision (and it was unwise, from the POV of Harry at that time) to hang out with Red-infected Susan led to Maggie.  That's good.  It also led to Shiro's agonizing torture-murder.  That's not good.  Maggie's existence is good...but it also enabled Harry's enslavement to Mab.  That's not good.

Well, some of keep thinking Maggie's existence is not good 

[Mira]

If we've got to do the alternity story (I've commented before that I tend to dread those, though I've seen exceptional good ones), what I would want to see is that EvilHarry's other choices led to both good and evil outcomes that didn't happen here, and some good and evil outcomes that happened here didn't there.

The thing is that every choice has effects, which in turn cause more effects, and every choice has good and bad consequences stemming from it.  I'll be disappointed if AlterHarry's choices led to either all-better or all-worse, because that's not not how choices work.

For an example from our time line:  Harry's unwise decision (and it was unwise, from the POV of Harry at that time) to hang out with Red-infected Susan led to Maggie.  That's good.  It also led to Shiro's agonizing torture-murder.  That's not good.  Maggie's existence is good...but it also enabled Harry's enslavement to Mab.  That's not good.

All choices produce multiple effects, even within a timeline, it's very rare for a choice to produce no good or no bad.

I'm sure the other time line will be worse overall, otherwise the story would be pointless.  But there really should be both good and bad from whatever the decision was.

I  agree , I also think it gets very complicated, because sometimes a bad choice leading to evil, can end up leading to good because the results of the evil choice can force someone into making the ultimate right choice...  Yeah, I know but it is true.. I also think an alternate timeline with "Evil Harry" instead of "Good Harry" would be just too simplistic and leave most of us very unsatisfied.

[Dina]

I  agree , I also think it gets very complicated, because sometimes a bad choice leading to evil, can end up leading to good because the results of the evil choice can force someone into making the ultimate right choice...  Yeah, I know but it is true.. I also think an alternate timeline with "Evil Harry" instead of "Good Harry" would be just too simplistic and leave most of us very unsatisfied.

You reminded me of "The Good Place" Mira. Such a brilliant show. In a moment they were discussing the statistics of the balance of every person life. It was pretty much impossible for a person to see all the consequences of every single action. And they were common people living ordinary lives. Imagine famous people, influentiall politics, kings and, if we had to extrapolate, powerful wizards.

[BugBear]

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to walk to Edmonton to give $85 to a snail charity.

[Mira]

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to walk to Edmonton to give $85 to a snail charity.

Well, snails do have their place in nature and deserve support..

[g33k]

...  Maggie's existence is good...but it also enabled Harry's enslavement to Mab.  That's not good ...

Au contraire:  Harry getting Winterknight'ed is an incredibly good thing.
Harry's a Starborn, with notable anti-Outsider abilities.
Winter is the primary force opposing Outsiders, protecting Creation at the Outer Gates; and the Knight is "Winter's Champion."

A Starborn Winter Knight?  Huge, huge power-up for Harry Dresden in protecting Creation; huge, huge power-up for Mab's WK (compared to Slate).  win-win all 'round

[g33k]

... The thing is that every choice has effects, which in turn cause more effects, and every choice has good and bad consequences stemming from it.  I'll be disappointed if AlterHarry's choices led to either all-better or all-worse, because that's not not how choices work.
...
All choices produce multiple effects, even within a timeline, it's very rare for a choice to produce no good or no bad.

I'm sure the other time line will be worse overall, otherwise the story would be pointless.  But there really should be both good and bad from whatever the decision was.

This is a good point, so here's a few Good Things that I've been hoping & semi-expect Harry!Prime will take away from the Mirror verse:

- with generally-bad-stuff happening, I expect the White Council will have fallen, gone.  With the WC out of the way, I think the Black Council will work more openly... and Harry!Prime will gain invaluable insights into who is on the BC, what their strategies are.
- with hat!Harry being a BadGuy^(tm) (not protecting Chicago nearly as much), John Marcone will have leaned-in even further in that direction... maybe even bordering on being a GoodGuy^(tm)??!?  Once again:  possible lessons for Harry!Prime to learn, and apply back home.  This ties particularly into my WAG that Wizard-of-Chicago Harry, having elevated Johnny Marcone to Baron, and being in possession of Amoracchius=Excalibur, is going to turn Marcone into King Arthur (wasn't it Nicodemus who remarked what a good King he would have made?)
- Mab will have two Winter Knights on-hand!!!    (The Mothers are gonna be so pissed)  Dunno if Mirror!WK is gonna be Lloyd Slate or not, but I expect Mirror!Mab will try to leverage this situation somehow, and her passion for "balance" suggests it won't be an anti-Summer move, but an anti-Outsider one.
- in an explicit parallel with the ST:TOS episode Mirror Mirror where Kirk persuades(?) Lt. Marlena Moreau & Mirror!Spock to use the Tantalus Field to oppose Mirror!Kirk & the Terran Empire, Harry!Prime will Soulgaze Mirror!Karrin & Mirror!Michael (and/or other members of his Scooby Gang) to persuade them / assist them in reversing course on the Mirrorverse's slide toward the darkness.

[Dina]

Mm, maybe Marcone is even called Arthur. We do not know his real name.