so ... soulgaze? the Sight?

[Dina]

Also, no one wants the memory of whatever a completely gone warlock is fixed in your mind for ever. You only do it because you want to be absolutely sure you are not killing someone who has been framed or something like that. I suspect the Merlin did it because it came with the job, I can't think many people willing to do the soulgaze. Also, if there was a chance that the kid survived, it was not a good idea to have him seen your very soul.

So, soulgazes are partial, but true. So if what the Merlin sees is too horrible, is enough. It does not matter if you also love music and cartoons.

[Mira]

Also, no one wants the memory of whatever a completely gone warlock is fixed in your mind for ever. You only do it because you want to be absolutely sure you are not killing someone who has been framed or something like that. I suspect the Merlin did it because it came with the job, I can't think many people willing to do the soulgaze. Also, if there was a chance that the kid survived, it was not a good idea to have him seen your very soul.

So, soulgazes are partial, but true. So if what the Merlin sees is too horrible, is enough. It does not matter if you also love music and cartoons.

What is odd about that is the Merlin didn't soul gaze Molly, who had less of a rap sheet than the Korean kid by a very long shot.  Yet if Harry hadn't argued so strenuously in her defense before Micheal and a good number of the Council had returned, the Merlin would have happily seen her lose her head.  I think there was a lot more to it, not that the Korean kid was wrongly convicted but that an example was being made for Harry.  But it gets away from the original topic about soul gazes verses the sight. 

[Dina]

Yes, perhaps an example for Harry is a good explanation.

[g33k]

Which is why given the Merlin's admitted prejudice against talented kids who screw up because dark magic is easier and they don't know better, he shouldn't have been the one to soul gaze the Korean kid.  Because the Merlin believes that trying to rehab these kids is a waste of time and dangerous, he'd only see the worst and nothing redeeming about the kid.  Why Harry didn't argue that point? ...

I have a rather-strong suspicion that the wizards themselves don't understand this point.  NONE of us are really willing to face how biased we are, how much our "rational" choices are fundamentally based on irrationalities; why would wizards be any different, in this?  Particularly since they incline towards both arrogance and a presumption of their own superior knowledge.

We have Doylist WoJ as to the variability / subjectivity of Soulgaze and Sight... but not much (nothing I have found) about Watsonian WC-awareness of same.

[Mira]

I have a rather-strong suspicion that the wizards themselves don't understand this point.  NONE of us are really willing to face how biased we are, how much our "rational" choices are fundamentally based on irrationalities; why would wizards be any different, in this?  Particularly since they incline towards both arrogance and a presumption of their own superior knowledge.

We have Doylist WoJ as to the variability / subjectivity of Soulgaze and Sight... but not much (nothing I have found) about Watsonian WC-awareness of same.

I am inclined to agree with this.  As for WOJs, yes, I know he is the author and should know what he is writing.  I of course respect that and love his work.   I worry that we can get too hung up on WOJs and it sometimes spoils the pleasure of reading the story and trying to figure it out for ourselves.  Especially on something like sight verses soul gazing because it can give too much away if Jim tells us too much.  That's why I think in the stories Harry is usually pretty vague about what others see when soul gazing him!  Susan fainted, Molly felt sorry for him and wanted him to take her to bed, Eb saw anger and great talent, no word on what Thomas saw, Marcone got ideas of what he might be able to exploit, and a couple of others mentioned just not feeling afraid.. I think it is revealing that yes, Harry saw Murphy with his sight at one point in Blood Rites and saw her as an angel, that was before he made her a Holy Knight for a day, but the two of them never got around to a soul gaze, or even made a point of doing it even though they were lovers.  I wonder what Murphy's take on Harry would have been had she been able to look really deep into him.  Having the gaze begin just as she was dying was such a tease!   

[Dina]

I am inclined to agree with this.  As for WOJs, yes, I know he is the author and should know what he is writing.  I of course respect that and love his work.   I worry that we can get too hung up on WOJs and it sometimes spoils the pleasure of reading the story and trying to figure it out for ourselves.  Especially on something like sight verses soul gazing because it can give too much away if Jim tells us too much.  That's why I think in the stories Harry is usually pretty vague about what others see when soul gazing him!  Susan fainted, Molly felt sorry for him and wanted him to take her to bed, Eb saw anger and great talent, no word on what Thomas saw, Marcone got ideas of what he might be able to exploit, and a couple of others mentioned just not feeling afraid.. I think it is revealing that yes, Harry saw Murphy with his sight at one point in Blood Rites and saw her as an angel, that was before he made her a Holy Knight for a day, but the two of them never got around to a soul gaze, or even made a point of doing it even though they were lovers.  I wonder what Murphy's take on Harry would have been had she been able to look really deep into him.  Having the gaze begin just as she was dying was such a tease!   

Oh yes, it was terrible. Knowing that if that soulgaze had taken Harry would have remembered it all his life...and instead he will always remember the empty house. So heartbreaking.
And I agree with both of you about the fact that the wizards themselces probably are not aware of how subjective the gaze/sight is.
And yes, I have always said we have to take WoJ with some caution. For several reasons, including JB having the right to change his mind. But also, he has the right to hide some information for narrative reasons.

[g33k]

...  Susan fainted ...

My own headcanon as to why Susan fainted:  she was a "news of the weird" reporter, so (a) she was pretty sure there was a bit of beyond-unconventional "weirdness" out there in the world; (b) she didn't really know; (c) she really wanted there to be magic in the world, her inner-6-year-old had never stopped longing for it.

Then she 'gazed Harry... and she saw a Magic-Man of deep and profound power, and the reality of what she saw -- the depth and scope of who-and-what Harry really was -- that shocked her to her core.

[Dina]

I don't know. I always thought it was because of the dark in Harry's sou (including the Walker) but I may be biased because Harry himself seems to think Susan was somehing horrible. But I am sure she also saw something good and lighter, so she did not flee.

[Mira]

I don't know. I always thought it was because of the dark in Harry's sou (including the Walker) but I may be biased because Harry himself seems to think Susan was somehing horrible. But I am sure she also saw something good and lighter, so she did not flee.

I don't think Harry saw anything horrible in Susan.  Actually he never has mentioned what he saw in their soul gaze.  I also think at that point in time Harry was so lonely and in need of whatever kind of love he could get, he failed to see the extent of Susan's ambition and where it could lead to

Then she 'gazed Harry... and she saw a Magic-Man of deep and profound power, and the reality of what she saw -- the depth and scope of who-and-what Harry really was -- that shocked her to her core.

I don't think she understood a lick of it, I don't know if it was what she saw that made her faint, or shock from the fact that such a thing was possible made her faint.   Yet for all of that, deep down it was her own denial that such things were real and dangerous that led to her downfall.

[Dina]

I don't think Harry saw anything horrible in Susan.  Actually he never has mentioned what he saw in their soul gaze.  I also think at that point in time Harry was so lonely and in need of whatever kind of love he could get, he failed to see the extent of Susan's ambition and where it could lead to

No, I am sorry, I meant that Harry was convinced that Susan saw something horrible in him.

[Mira]

No, I am sorry, I meant that Harry was convinced that Susan saw something horrible in him.

 He may have been..