Politics and magic

[Tinfoil hat]

I have been thinking about the world building of the Dresden files. People make deals with Magical beings for money, power, success and just about everything under the sun. So it stands to reason that at some point someone had to have made a deal with mab to be Prime minister,  president , king or what have you.
What being in the Dresden files who  make the best campaign manager. Im going with Odin.
What would such a deal entail

[Yuillegan]

Howdy partners *tips Sheriff's hat*

While this topic doesn't breach Touchy Topics per se...I would like to remind everyone to keep this topic out of real world events and politicians (particularly current ones but not limited to them). Especially given the highly charged, current political environment.

Keep things highly theoretical, light, and fun, and that will ensure things stay that way.

To be clear: stay on topic. We will be monitoring this topic closely.

Y'all have a nice day now. *Tips hat again and rides off into the horizon*

[KurtinStGeorge]

Seeing as most people today don't believe in the supernatural; or at least don't believe in most of the older supernatural pantheons, the most likely people to seek out these kinds of deals would have been war lords of ancient times up until several hundred years ago.

Take for example the Merovingian King Clovis I; who is historically important because while conquering Gaul in the 6th century, he converted to Nicene Christianity and doing so got the Frank tribes he led to do the same thing.  If you read his conversion story, it is not inspirational or have any feeling of being a miracle.  It reads like someone who took the Pepsi challenge and decided that Pepsi does taste better than Coca-Cola. 

Clovis was in a battle with a rival and was losing and is reported by his biographer Gregory of Tours to have said something like this: "Jesus, I know of you." (Clovis wife Clotilda had already converted and Clovis wasn't happy about that.  She was the only person who would stand up to Clovis that he would not kill, because he was known for killing anyone else who did so.)  "My gods are letting me down.  If you can do better, I will follow you and make my people do the same." (I'm heavily paraphrasing here.)  Right about then an arrow or spear hit the enemy leader in the head and killed him outright, leading to an instant victory for Clovis as the enemy forces; seeing their leader fall, fled the field.

In a Dresden Files universe you could easily see someone like Clovis; instead of being converted to Christianity (Sort of, he was still an unpredictable and extremely dangerous man who killed most of his family, except his wife and children.) making a deal with Odin or any other supernatural heavy hitter who has an interest in humanity. 

The thing is, there have been many, many kings and rulers and a lot more petty warlords who aspired rule their own kingdom.  So, the real question is, why would Odin or any supernatural being like Mab want to back any particular mortal?  It would have to be someone who could push the agenda of that supernatural being and be in the right place and time to do so. 

So, maybe not very many rulers or would be rulers would have had the potential that Mab, Odin or any other big supernatural player, would have wanted, to make the kind of difference they desired.  A lot of those who tried to make deals might have ended like the trumpet player in Summer Knight, who told Maeve that he would die in order to play a great solo.  Remember, he played the solo and he then died.  These type of leaders and wouldbe leaders would have just been play things for much of the supernatural world.       

 

[LordDresden2]

I have been thinking about the world building of the Dresden files. People make deals with Magical beings for money, power, success and just about everything under the sun. So it stands to reason that at some point someone had to have made a deal with mab to be Prime minister,  president , king or what have you.
What being in the Dresden files who  make the best campaign manager. Im going with Odin.
What would such a deal entail

You can bet on it.  Only you can bet that it's way, way more complicated than just a simple quid pro quo to become a national leader.

Seeing as most people today don't believe in the supernatural;

But in the Dresdenverse, there are quite a few people who do know the truth, or part of it.  It's not a majority that believe, but certainly a large minority are perfectly well aware of at least the real existence of the supernatural.

The thing is that the supernatural powers are already deeply entangled into the mortal world power structures.  The White Council may be the most entangled one, but it's also the most human one.  The White Court are certainly deeply plugged into it, Lara has demonstrated the ability to manipulate the Federal Government at a high level.

And of course, the Feds have at least one of their own counter-version in the Librarians, who are apparently feared in the supernatural world.  Probably other major nation-states have their own versions of that.

I don't think a deal to become President, or Prime Minister, or whatever, in a major state, is likely.  Not at the simple, straightforward a level.  It would be more like trading favors, the White Court (for ex) pulls strings to help get John Doe elected to a spot, and in return he does favors for the Court.  In that respect, it would be no different than the Mafia or the Yakuza or Archer Daniels Midland or the Teamsters Union or whoever.  And of course in the DV all these groups are also interacting with each other as well.  You'd probably be just as likely to see a deal with a supernatural power to get John Doe a board seat at GM or Apple or Disney as you would a legislative seat.

And we've seen how Marcone interacts with the supernatural while running his criminal empire in Chicago.

One of Harry's worries, in fact, is that if the general public ever realized just how compromised every institution and group is by the supernatural, society would break down.  That was part of how Mavra was able to blackmail him back in the day.

[Mira]

One of Harry's worries, in fact, is that if the general public ever realized just how compromised every institution and group is by the supernatural, society would break down.  That was part of how Mavra was able to blackmail him back in the day.

I think it will become an increasing problem since Battleground.  However as Harry proved in Proven Guilty, he is very good at politics when he managed to save Molly when he went up against the Merlin.  He also made enemies in the process which is part of the reason why he was booted out of the White Council.  The ironic thing will be I think is as the vanilla public begin to ask more questions about just what did do a number on Chicago, Harry will be one of the few from the magical world who lives in the vanilla world and in my opinion has a better understanding of their fears than anyone from the White Council.

[Tinfoil hat]

You can bet on it.  Only you can bet that it's way, way more complicated than just a simple quid pro quo to become a national leader.

But in the Dresdenverse, there are quite a few people who do know the truth, or part of it.  It's not a majority that believe, but certainly a large minority are perfectly well aware of at least the real existence of the supernatural.

The thing is that the supernatural powers are already deeply entangled into the mortal world power structures.  The White Council may be the most entangled one, but it's also the most human one.  The White Court are certainly deeply plugged into it, Lara has demonstrated the ability to manipulate the Federal Government at a high level.

And of course, the Feds have at least one of their own counter-version in the Librarians, who are apparently feared in the supernatural world.  Probably other major nation-states have their own versions of that.

I don't think a deal to become President, or Prime Minister, or whatever, in a major state, is likely.  Not at the simple, straightforward a level.  It would be more like trading favors, the White Court (for ex) pulls strings to help get John Doe elected to a spot, and in return he does favors for the Court.  In that respect, it would be no different than the Mafia or the Yakuza or Archer Daniels Midland or the Teamsters Union or whoever.  And of course in the DV all these groups are also interacting with each other as well.  You'd probably be just as likely to see a deal with a supernatural power to get John Doe a board seat at GM or Apple or Disney as you would a legislative seat.

And we've seen how Marcone interacts with the supernatural while running his criminal empire in Chicago.

One of Harry's worries, in fact, is that if the general public ever realized just how compromised every institution and group is by the supernatural, society would break down.  That was part of how Mavra was able to blackmail him back in the day.

I think a deal can be done or has been done before just not in the way the politicians thought it was. In my mind, i can see Lara, Mab or what ever entity proming a young politician money and support in exchange for a few favours. Dude agrees thinking its a normal thing, usual political deal and what not, only for the entity to came back and collect only then for the guy to realise f..... it wasn't a human but who you gonna tell
Ps the White court or rather house wraith most likely has the most political connection. I mean political and non political sex scandals are an everyday occurrence.
On that note politicians have side pieces is not rare its the norm. On of the wraith sisters encounters a promising politician gets him /her addicted and boom

[Mira]

I think a deal can be done or has been done before just not in the way the politicians thought it was. In my mind, i can see Lara, Mab or what ever entity proming a young politician money and support in exchange for a few favours. Dude agrees thinking its a normal thing, usual political deal and what not, only for the entity to came back and collect only then for the guy to realise f..... it wasn't a human but who you gonna tell
Ps the White court or rather house wraith most likely has the most political connection. I mean political and non political sex scandals are an everyday occurrence.
On that note politicians have side pieces is not rare its the norm. On of the wraith sisters encounters a promising politician gets him /her addicted and boom

Well Marcone has been buying off the politicians for years because he is a mob boss.. Since he is now a Denarian on top of everything else it will be interesting to see how it all plays out.   

[g33k]

It's worth noting, I think, that King Arthur seems to have made a deal with Merlin; I think that's the "biggest" political-power deal we have in the DF canon.

Given that Merlin's power seems to be orders of magnitude greater than anything we see from the White Council, I suspect OG Merlin was something much more than a mortal wizard. 

As to the OP query:

...
What being in the Dresden files who  make the best campaign manager. Im going with Odin.
What would such a deal entail 

I don't think a "deal" is the best approach to take with Odin.  You aren't likely to out-bargain that one!  If you're striking a bargain for something you can't get any other way, you'll pay Odin's price and it will be commensurate with what you got...

Instead:  recognize that (no matter what "deal" you've made) you'll end up serving Odin's interests; he'll see to it.  Accept it... embrace it... and ask instead to join "team Vadderung" as a political agent, with the understanding that the more he helps you ascend the halls of power, the more useful you will be to him.
 

[LordDresden2]

I think a deal can be done or has been done before just not in the way the politicians thought it was. In my mind, i can see Lara, Mab or what ever entity proming a young politician money and support in exchange for a few favours. Dude agrees thinking its a normal thing, usual political deal and what not, only for the entity to came back and collect only then for the guy to realise f..... it wasn't a human but who you gonna tell
Ps the White court or rather house wraith most likely has the most political connection. I mean political and non political sex scandals are an everyday occurrence.
On that note politicians have side pieces is not rare its the norm. On of the wraith sisters encounters a promising politician gets him /her addicted and boom

We don't even have to speculate about that, Harry muses on Lara's ability to pul Federal strings at the end of Changes.  It would be very interesting to have a list of politicians and appointed officials who have slept with Lara or one of her sisters.

Note too that the manipulation, or the deal, doesn't have to be with the politician himself.  As real-world lobbyists know, at lot of the time it's just as useful to get a hold on the politician's chief of staff or assistant or a family member or whatever.  Sometimes it's safer and less likely to be noticed, too.  A Senator's or General's brother could be an occasional bedmate/slave of one of Lara's sisters, and she could influence the target through the brother, for ex.

Of course we should also keep in mind that this goes both ways, too.  We don't know exactly what the Librarians can and can't do, but apparently they are feared.  I wouldn't be surprised if promising 'arrangements' sometimes get cut off by Librarian interference.

[g33k]

...  It would be very interesting to have a list of politicians and appointed officials who have slept with Lara or one of her sisters ...

And other methods of mind-control.  Fine thralls, whether blampire-origin, wizardly, or other.

I'm sure Jim has a few such politicians/etc in mind; but also, I think he's intentionally not defining a complete list, so that he can put people into is-controlled / isn't-controlled roles (as needed / per story) ...  He certainly doesn't have the series plotted so thoroughly that he knows every mundanely-powerful muggle he'll  want to have, whether tangential or central to the story... after all:  Waldo Butters was introduced as a very-minor character, a forever-nerd.

I hope we'll get a "Librarian" focus book, where we get to see some of these secret political shenanigans.