Attitudes and opinions about DF changing with age?

[LordDresden2]

The DF started with Storm Front, which came out in 2000.  That's right, Harry's adventures have been going on for 24 years now.  A baby born the day SF was published is old enough to have kids in grade school by now.

I got into the story a few years later, but I've been following Harry's life since 2006 or so, when I read the older books and started following the story.  That was 18 years or so ago.

Perspectives change with age.  That's true for authors (I can see traces of that in what I suspect are various retcons in JB's work), and it's true for readers, too.

How has your view of the story, the characters, the storyline, etc. changed with age?  Not just new story developments, but because you yourself are different?

A couple of changes I am conscious of in myself:  I find myself agreeing more and more with Ebenezar.  For ex, I love Thomas' character, and I sympathize with his situation and his efforts to not be a monster.  I fully sympathize with Thomas' and Harry's fraternal bond and what it means to them.

But at the same time, much more so now than when I first read Blood Rites and Dead Beat, I find Ebenezar's (and the Council's) attitude about White Vampires all too realistic.  They are what they are.  I'm not saying Harry's wrong to love Thomas, but I'm not sure Ebenezar is wrong, either.  They can both be right at the same time.  A White losing control of his or her demon may be unlikely on any given day, esp. if s/he deliberately feeds lightly regularly to keep it quiet, but such a loss of control is mathematically inevitable if a White Vampire lives long enough.

Another change:  I am much more of Martin's mind about Harry and Susan's bad judgement and reckless behavior in Death Masks.  My younger self had more sympathy for 'they're in love', older me tends to respond to my younger self with "so what?"  Martin was right, they shouldn't have been running around doing stuff together.  It was asking for trouble.

[Mira]

But at the same time, much more so now than when I first read Blood Rites and Dead Beat, I find Ebenezar's (and the Council's) attitude about White Vampires all too realistic.  They are what they are.  I'm not saying Harry's wrong to love Thomas, but I'm not sure Ebenezar is wrong, either.  They can both be right at the same time.  A White losing control of his or her demon may be unlikely on any given day, esp. if s/he deliberately feeds lightly regularly to keep it quiet, but such a loss of control is mathematically inevitable if a White Vampire lives long enough.

Another change:  I am much more of Martin's mind about Harry and Susan's bad judgement and reckless behavior in Death Masks.  My younger self had more sympathy for 'they're in love', older me tends to respond to my younger self with "so what?"  Martin was right, they shouldn't have been running around doing stuff together.  It was asking for trouble.

Well, I was middle age when I started reading the series, though, [knock on wood] I am in good health and condition, I would be considered elderly now.  Or I am elderly, the attitude I have is things are a lot more complicated then they appear.  In other words there are more grey areas than black and white here, and yeah usually enough blame to go around on everyone.

Harry and Susan, while Martin wasn't wrong about Harry and Susan's bad judgement, he also was the guy that exploited it.  While yeah, Harry and Susan did fall in love, poor judgement entered into it, Susan's desire to exploit Harry's connections and knowledge to further her own career led to her down fall, because she ignored both Harry's warnings and what she witnessed with her own eyes.  Harry's own problems with women and loneliness led to falling harder for Susan than he might have, which led to his own willful blindness to the reality that though Susan loved him, she was also using him.. So the relationship went on to it's tragic end.

I agree, I don't think Eb is wrong about White Vampires either, however given the complication that his own grandson is one, and that his other grandson loves his half-brother, Eb needs to do a whole lot more talking and explaining to Harry.  Because on the face of it, Eb should know that Harry isn't going to stop loving Thomas just because he is told that he can't trust a White Vampire.  Harry knows that White Vampires can't be trusted, but he can't stop loving Thomas just on Eb's say so.  What is more Harry has been helped by Lara, this further complicates things.  As we saw in Battle Ground Lara was huge in the battle against the Titian and the Fomor.   In that sense I think Eb is repeating the same mistake he made with Harry's mother, Margaret.  He has to do a lot better than say, "because I said so," to Harry.  He also has to do a hell of a lot more listening because it's easy to fall into the "I am older and wiser" trap and totally miss the boat.

[vincentric]

A recurring cause of problems in the Dresden Files is that " Wizards keep too many secrets."

It's telling that Thomas, the White Court vampire, has been more open and honest with Harry than Ebeneezer has.

Thomas sought out Harry and cautiously sounded him out, established a friendly relationship and revealed their family relationship while also cautioning Harry against the rest of the White Court. Since then, Thomas has been at Harry's side through evil magicians, shapeshifter abduction and vampire wars, getting the worst of it and coming back for more.

Ebeneezer, in the course of training Harry in wizard ethics, never trusted Harry with the fact that he was his maternal grandfather which kept Harry ignorant of all related matters, doesn't trust Harry's judgement my minimalizing the issue when Harry tries to tell him about Chichen Itza, can't have a rational conversation about the White Court and refuses to teach Harry anything about what a Starborn unless they're about to be attacked by a pack of Outsiders.

So, even though I agree that White Court vampires can't be trusted, Harry has almost as much evidence against trusting wizards.

[LordDresden2]

Harry and Susan, while Martin wasn't wrong about Harry and Susan's bad judgement, he also was the guy that exploited it. 

Yeah, but that came later.  At the time we first meet them, Martin warns Susan that there's no good going to come of her spending time with Harry.  He was right.  (Or at least, right from the POV of Harry at that time.  Maggie is something good that came of it...but at fearful cost.)

Older me doesn't hold the flawed relationship of Harry and Susan against them, before the Party.  Yeah, they were in love, sincerely so, but also using each other to some extent...but no human relationships are totally pure and perfect.  Two flawed people, there were red flags about their relationship but not any worse than many others.

But after the Party, after Susan was Red-infected...everything was different then.  The cold, hard fact was that their relationship needed to end at that point.  It wasn't fair, it wasn't right, it wasn't just, it wasn't their consensual desire...but older me tells younger me that none of that is relevant.  It was what it was. 

Susan didn't need to be involved in any romantic/sexual liaisons after that, with anyone, for any reason.  Harry needed to face up to the cold reality that their relationship had been made impossible, and come to terms with it.  What either one wanted was irrelevant. Younger me rebelled against that sort of coldness, older me tends to take it as given.  Life's not fair.  That's something age does teach.

I agree, I don't think Eb is wrong about White Vampires either, however given the complication that his own grandson is one, and that his other grandson loves his half-brother, Eb needs to do a whole lot more talking and explaining to Harry.  Because on the face of it, Eb should know that Harry isn't going to stop loving Thomas just because he is told that he can't trust a White Vampire.  Harry knows that White Vampires can't be trusted, but he can't stop loving Thomas just on Eb's say so.  What is more Harry has been helped by Lara, this further complicates things.  As we saw in Battle Ground Lara was huge in the battle against the Titian and the Fomor.   In that sense I think Eb is repeating the same mistake he made with Harry's mother, Margaret.  He has to do a lot better than say, "because I said so," to Harry.  He also has to do a hell of a lot more listening because it's easy to fall into the "I am older and wiser" trap and totally miss the boat.

I partly agree, but at the same time, older me also disagrees.  Younger me, back in 2006, would have been 100% 'yeah, openness and straight communication'.  Older me sees it as more complicated than that.  Wizards keep secrets in part by their nature, it's the currency of their power.  Harry hates it...but he's come to realize the necessity of it sometimes, too, like he's come to recognize that the Council's attitude about warlocks is not without foundation.

For ex, consider Harry's decision to keep a lot of stuff about the supernatural world in Chicago from Karrin until Summer Knight.  She resented it, but in retrospect, it's pretty clear he was justified.  Even my younger self recognized that, my older one understands it even better.

Suppose Harry had told Karrin the full truth before the loup garou rampage.  Suppose he informed her that:

There are enforcers for a secret society who consider themselves entitled to behead children for breaking rules they don't know exist, and they do it right here in Chicago...and you can't interfere.  You have to look the other way.

There are whole families of super-powered sex predators and rapists (the White Court) who prey on innocents, sometimes to the point of death, rape their minds and bodies, right here in Chicago, including teens (at least)...and you must not try to interfere.

And so on.  Do you think the Karrin of that time could have accepted the necessity of looking the other way?  But if she doesn't, a lot of good cops die for no reason, other people's lives get shattered, probably some cops end up imprisoned (which can be a fate worse than death) by the supernaturals manipulating the system, her family might pay a steep price too?  Could she accept the reality of that, before the loup garou rubbed her nose in reality?

Younger me understood that about Karrin, older me can see a lot of reasons why Wizards would be reluctant to let information get out of hand.  I don't always agree with them, but older me understands it.

[Mira]

Yeah, but that came later.  At the time we first meet them, Martin warns Susan that there's no good going to come of her spending time with Harry.  He was right.  (Or at least, right from the POV of Harry at that time.  Maggie is something good that came of it...but at fearful cost.)

I am not sure what you mean here, because when we first meet Martin, Susan was already infected and partly turned.  If I remember correctly, Martin knew about them, still brought her to town with him, it was a set up.. In other words knowing the chemistry, Martin made both of them part of his long term plans.  After Harry's rescue from Nic when Shiro took his place, Martin knew full well that Harry was weakened, wounded, thus vulnerable, he also knew what the smell of blood would drive Susan to.. Yet he had her take Harry to his place.  So while Martin may have warned Susan, throwing them together when biological forces were so strong coupled with emotional was asking for trouble.  Yeah, some common sense prevailed, i.e. Harry tied Susan up so she wouldn't outright kill him during their sex, but that doesn't mean he was in control, he was driven by his needs and the overpowering effect of the vamp venom.   Susan for her part was not really in control either because of the vamp venom.

Older me doesn't hold the flawed relationship of Harry and Susan against them, before the Party.  Yeah, they were in love, sincerely so, but also using each other to some extent...but no human relationships are totally pure and perfect.  Two flawed people, there were red flags about their relationship but not any worse than many others.

Oh I totally disagree here, this wasn't merely a relationship between to two flawed people.  One was a wizard with physical contacts, dangerous contacts with the supernatural world, you don't mess with that lightly. Susan thought she could and further her career, she got in way over her head.. The red flags were a lot worse and were waving on their first date for crap sake, and it was death for her in the end, so yeah, a lot worse than many others.

But after the Party, after Susan was Red-infected...everything was different then.  The cold, hard fact was that their relationship needed to end at that point.  It wasn't fair, it wasn't right, it wasn't just, it wasn't their consensual desire...but older me tells younger me that none of that is relevant.  It was what it was.

It did end, remember Susan went to South America shortly after she was infected.  However that didn't end how Harry felt about her, he wanted to marry her.  At that point in time Harry still thought he was all alone, he didn't know who Thomas was and he still believed that Elaine was dead.  If you will remember he became obsessed with trying to find a cure for Susan, was in a deep clinical depression over guilt and her leaving at the beginning of Summer Knight.  I don't know if you have ever been there in your life, I have.  While yes, common sense says the relationship was ended and it was for the good of all, emotions play a stronger role, Harry is a sensitive guy and couldn't deal with it.  Easy to say the relationship had ended, but in practice, in Harry's heart it hadn't.  I say that as an older woman who did find that life went on, found my life partner after, but I understand all too well what Harry was dealing with.

Susan didn't need to be involved in any romantic/sexual liaisons after that, with anyone, for any reason.  Harry needed to face up to the cold reality that their relationship had been made impossible, and come to terms with it.  What either one wanted was irrelevant. Younger me rebelled against that sort of coldness, older me tends to take it as given.  Life's not fair.  That's something age does teach.

I agree, but who brought her back to town to seek out and work with Harry?  Martin..  And again, easy to talk about cold reality,
but also reality that Harry hadn't gotten over her, it isn't in his emotional make up to get over something like that easily.  He never fully got over Elaine, I don't doubt that his mourning for Murphy will become a major stumbling block between him and Lara.  Harry is a lot more mature than he was, he isn't alone now, but to turn off a physical/emotional relationship with a woman like a facet is not in his personality/emotional make up.

I partly agree, but at the same time, older me also disagrees.  Younger me, back in 2006, would have been 100% 'yeah, openness and straight communication'.  Older me sees it as more complicated than that.  Wizards keep secrets in part by their nature, it's the currency of their power.  Harry hates it...but he's come to realize the necessity of it sometimes, too, like he's come to recognize that the Council's attitude about warlocks is not without foundation.

Problem with that, Harry is Eb's grandson as well as a wizard.. Very complicated indeed..

For ex, consider Harry's decision to keep a lot of stuff about the supernatural world in Chicago from Karrin until Summer Knight.  She resented it, but in retrospect, it's pretty clear he was justified.  Even my younger self recognized that, my older one understands it even better.

Not the same, as Eb and Harry..  Grapes to apples, both fruit but not alike.

Suppose Harry had told Karrin the full truth before the loup garou rampage.  Suppose he informed her that:

I think he tried as much as he could, but remember at that point she had already jumped to conclusions and wasn't receptive.  They both learned some painful lessons from that.

There are enforcers for a secret society who consider themselves entitled to behead children for breaking rules they don't know exist, and they do it right here in Chicago...and you can't interfere.  You have to look the other way.

There are whole families of super-powered sex predators and rapists (the White Court) who prey on innocents, sometimes to the point of death, rape their minds and bodies, right here in Chicago, including teens (at least)...and you must not try to interfere.

And so on.  Do you think the Karrin of that time could have accepted the necessity of looking the other way?  But if she doesn't, a lot of good cops die for no reason, other people's lives get shattered, probably some cops end up imprisoned (which can be a fate worse than death) by the supernaturals manipulating the system, her family might pay a steep price too?  Could she accept the reality of that, before the loup garou rubbed her nose in reality?

Actually Harry if you will remember didn't feel that Karrin should look the other way.. He was horrified about the kangaroo courts that the Council held or often didn't bother with before they chopped off the heads of kids they felt were going warlock.  No, Murphy wouldn't accept the reality of that, but the truth is, neither did Harry.. Actually you can argue that Murphy did accept it, she had no problem acting as judge, jury, and executioner for Nic in Skin Game, though she claimed she was no longer a Holy Knight she used a Holy Sword in an illegal manner.  While doing that she also violated every oath she ever took as a police officer and got a Holy Sword shattered.

Younger me understood that about Karrin, older me can see a lot of reasons why Wizards would be reluctant to let information get out of hand.  I don't always agree with them, but older me understands it.

Yes, life tells us that, as much as we'd like, being totally open isn't always possible and sometimes for the good of all, secrets must be kept..

[KurtinStGeorge]

One of things I appreciate about the Dresden Files as I get older; I started reading the books in 2007, is seeing Harry feeling the weight of the decisions he has made over time.  Even in the early books Harry is given some hard lessons that get him to rethink some of his beliefs, change his ways of handling various situations and give him a better understand the potential consequences of his decisions.  The easiest example of this how Harry not clueing in Kim Delany on how greater magic circles worked led to her death.  I'm not forgetting that Kim's failure to tell Harry why she wanted to learn how these type of circles functioned was also a major contributor to the Loup Garou killing her, but I'm not here to discuss the decisions and actions of minor characters.

Today, even though it's obvious that there many things Harry still has to learn, he feels like a person who has matured, who has learned lessons and feels the weight of the responsibilities he has taken on.  Perhaps because a number of other fantasy series take place within a much shorter time frame, the main characters rarely feel like they have grown and lived to the same degree they have grown in power.

There is a book series I am currently reading where I am about the 9th or 10th book.  It is called the Arcane Casebook series by Dan Willis.  It takes place in an alternate version of 1930's New York, where magic doesn't simply exist, it is a part of everyday life.  It's raining and you don't have an umbrella but have to catch a taxi to go somewhere?  You activate a simple protection rune and the rain never lands on you, ice cold winds don't hit you face and you feel warm and cozy, though the protection is temporary, maybe half an hour.  The main character is a private detective who is also runewright who uses magic to solve crimes.  Runewrights are not the most powerful types of magic users; in fact most of them work for minimum wages making minor league runes for ordinary tasks.  However the main character, Private Detective Alex Lockerby has been taught writing runes and being a detective from Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, who has faked his own death and is living under an assumed named in New York City.

I am not putting this series down.  Most of the books have been a fun read and the plots and mysteries are generally well thought out.  Within the book world the series has progressed about eight or nine years, Alex has made new friends and allies, learned more about both his craft and the wider world.  He has lost friends and a lover and seen a lot of misery in the world around him.  Yet, the main character doesn't feel like he has changed very much since the first book.  There is a lack of gravitas there.  Or, at least that is how I see it.

As far as appreciating the motivations and feelings of the older characters in the Dresden Files, that is more of a mixed bag.  For example, there is a micro fiction where we read that Morgan felt bad that he couldn't protect a young Harry the way Margaret LeFay had asked him to.  But Morgan also thought it might be a good idea to kill a grown Harry.  We don't really know why.  What do they fear Harry will become?  I used to think it was Harry becoming a new version of Kemmler.  Then I thought that Harry's potential; according to Lash, to hold power over Outsiders was what the Council feared.  Harry might use the Outsiders to become a dangerous and out of control power in his own right.  But the more I think about it the more I think these types of fears are too small.  Mab may have hinted what the Council and even Ebenezer really fears, that Harry might one day be able to become an immortal.  A being more powerful than the entire White Council.  Ebenezar seemed very agitated in Battle Ground when Mab said to Harry, "Immortality offers a significant advantage, but it is no substitute for intelligence.  Remember that young wizard. Should it for some bizarre reason ever be necessary."

As far as Ebenezar's greater depth of knowledge of the workings of the White Court, it makes sense the Eb has seen more than Harry has, but Harry has probably seen a lot more than Ebenzar gives him credit for.  Harry saw first hand how the thralls of the White Court were treated at the gathering of the three main White Court factions.  Harry soulgazed a women who had been victimized by Madeline Raith.  Harry also overheard the psychic attack the Skavis agent used against Elaine.  Ebenezar has suffered a greater personal loss at the hands of the White Court.  Perhaps in Twelve Months we will find out what Ebenezar was talking about and Harry will learn things about the White Court he didn't know before.  If that doesn't happen then I would suspect that Eb's personal loss and the feelings they generated overwhelmed his rational mind.

In fact, now that I think about it, if Harry and Ebenzar were real people, I would advise grief counseling for Harry, but a much deeper intervention for Ebenezar.  Of the two of them, Ebenezar's loss of control was more troubling than Harry's was.  Not the Harry starting to crush Rudolph to death wasn't troubling, but his reaction to seeing Karin gunned down by Rudolph was understandable if not rational.  Ebenezar tried to kill Harry because he was angry that Harry wouldn't obey him.  That, and finding out a White Court vampire is his grandson.  Ebenezar's desire to protect Harry ran totally out of control into Eb trying to kill Harry.  Now I think I have a better understanding of how Ebenzar drove his daughter away from him.

[Mira]

As far as Ebenezar's greater depth of knowledge of the workings of the White Court, it makes sense the Eb has seen more than Harry has, but Harry has probably seen a lot more than Ebenzar gives him credit for.  Harry saw first hand how the thralls of the White Court were treated at the gathering of the three main White Court factions.  Harry soulgazed a women who had been victimized by Madeline Raith.  Harry also overheard the psychic attack the Skavis agent used against Elaine.  Ebenezar has suffered a greater personal loss at the hands of the White Court.  Perhaps in Twelve Months we will find out what Ebenezar was talking about and Harry will learn things about the White Court he didn't know before.  If that doesn't happen then I would suspect that Eb's personal loss and the feelings they generated overwhelmed his rational mind.

In fact, now that I think about it, if Harry and Ebenzar were real people, I would advise grief counseling for Harry, but a much deeper intervention for Ebenezar.  Of the two of them, Ebenezar's loss of control was more troubling than Harry's was.  Not the Harry starting to crush Rudolph to death wasn't troubling, but his reaction to seeing Karin gunned down by Rudolph was understandable if not rational.  Ebenezar tried to kill Harry because he was angry that Harry wouldn't obey him.  That, and finding out a White Court vampire is his grandson.  Ebenezar's desire to protect Harry ran totally out of control into Eb trying to kill Harry.  Now I think I have a better understanding of how Ebenzar drove his daughter away from him.

Yes, there are lessons there for all of us older folks reading the series.  Ebenezar mourns driving his daughter away, but has he learned anything over the years?  He thinks he was too hard or strict if we believe what he said in Blood Rites.  But was that it?  Or was it another way to drive the young away, "do as I say,not as I do.."  That's why when Harry found out that Eb was the Blackstaff after idolizing him for his morals and the way he looked at magic was so alienated for a time.  I can imagine Margaret feeling the same way, especially from what little we've learned about her rebellion against the White Council.  She was so alienated that it drove her into the arms of Lord Raith among other unsavory characters and commit crimes.  The other lesson Eb didn't seem to learn because he thinks because he is older, seen a lot, supposedly much wiser, he fell into the same trap and lot of us parents and older folks fall into, "because I said so..."  No open mind to the times or that circumstances might changed in his long years. " Dad gum it!  White Court vamps are bad, always have been bad, and you can't trust them!"  No, he didn't say it like that, but that's what he meant...

[LordDresden2]

I am not sure what you mean here, because when we first meet Martin, Susan was already infected and partly turned.  If I remember correctly, Martin knew about them, still brought her to town with him, it was a set up.

I doubt that.  Yeah, he brought her to town with him, but the two had been working together already and they had business in Chicago.  I think Martin thought that they should stick to that business, and that Susan should avoid Harry.  Harry, for his part, was still in a certain amount of denial about his relationship with Susan, as we saw by his jealous suspicion that she was 'with' Martin now.

Yeah, later on Martin manipulated the destruction of the Red Court using Harry and Susan, but it's usually a mistake of ascribe uber-chessmaster status to characters years ahead of time.

In other words knowing the chemistry, Martin made both of them part of his long term plans.  After Harry's rescue from Nic when Shiro took his place, Martin knew full well that Harry was weakened, wounded, thus vulnerable, he also knew what the smell of blood would drive Susan to.. Yet he had her take Harry to his place.  So while Martin may have warned Susan, throwing them together when biological forces were so strong coupled with emotional was asking for trouble.  Yeah, some common sense prevailed, i.e. Harry tied Susan up so she wouldn't outright kill him during their sex, but that doesn't mean he was in control, he was driven by his needs and the overpowering effect of the vamp venom.

This is what I mean by over-ascribing planning.  If Martin was trying to manipulate them into a sexual encounter, why?  What does he gain by that, at that point in time?  Also, he would certainly know that the most likely result of any such encounter would be a dead Harry and a Red Vampire Susan, who would then be loyal to the Red Court and know a bunch of valuable secrets about the Fellowship of St. Giles.

Yes, Harry is a Council Wizard.  Yes, it's plausible that he has magic strong enough to survive such an encounter.  But Martin would need to be able to know that for reasonably sure, and also know that such a Wizard would end up trapped by his own defenses alone with Susan, and not have some magical means to quench the lust.  It's a lot of unknowns that Martin couldn't possibly manipulate or know, he's extremely smart and capable, but still basically human.

If Harry's emergency defense shield had permitted him to leave, he could have knocked Susan out and gotten away before they got carried away.  If circumstances had been just slightly different, they might never have ended up trapped together at all.  Etc.

 

It did end, remember Susan went to South America shortly after she was infected.  However that didn't end how Harry felt about her, he wanted to marry her.  At that point in time Harry still thought he was all alone, he didn't know who Thomas was and he still believed that Elaine was dead.  If you will remember he became obsessed with trying to find a cure for Susan, was in a deep clinical depression over guilt and her leaving at the beginning of Summer Knight.  I don't know if you have ever been there in your life, I have.  While yes, common sense says the relationship was ended and it was for the good of all, emotions play a stronger role, Harry is a sensitive guy and couldn't deal with it.  Easy to say the relationship had ended, but in practice, in Harry's heart it hadn't.  I say that as an older woman who did find that life went on, found my life partner after, but I understand all too well what Harry was dealing with.

So do I.  But at the same time, my older self recognizes the danger of it.  I'm not saying I blame Harry for reacting the way he did.  Only that I recognize that his reaction was both natural...and futile.

[LordDresden2]

There are enforcers for a secret society who consider themselves entitled to behead children for breaking rules they don't know exist, and they do it right here in Chicago...and you can't interfere.  You have to look the other way.

There are whole families of super-powered sex predators and rapists (the White Court) who prey on innocents, sometimes to the point of death, rape their minds and bodies, right here in Chicago, including teens (at least)...and you must not try to interfere.

And so on.  Do you think the Karrin of that time could have accepted the necessity of looking the other way?  But if she doesn't, a lot of good cops die for no reason, other people's lives get shattered, probably some cops end up imprisoned (which can be a fate worse than death) by the supernaturals manipulating the system, her family might pay a steep price too?  Could she accept the reality of that, before the loup garou rubbed her nose in reality?

Actually Harry if you will remember didn't feel that Karrin should look the other way.. He was horrified about the kangaroo courts that the Council held or often didn't bother with before they chopped off the heads of kids they felt were going warlock.  No, Murphy wouldn't accept the reality of that, but the truth is, neither did Harry. 

He accepted it enough that he knew he couldn't stop it.  He accepted it enough that he knew he had to keep Karrin in the dark until she was ready to face up toe the cold fact of the Council's overwhelming power.

Yeah, he hated it.  He still hates it, he just knows it's necessary now.  He's still casting around for some other solution, but so far he hasn't found one.

Actually you can argue that Murphy did accept it, she had no problem acting as judge, jury, and executioner for Nic in Skin Game, though she claimed she was no longer a Holy Knight she used a Holy Sword in an illegal manner.  While doing that she also violated every oath she ever took as a police officer and got a Holy Sword shattered.

Yeah, but that came much, much later.  The turning point for Karrin was the loup garou rampage at the police station.  That forced her, by brutal example, to accept the reality of the overwhelming power of the supernatural, and that she cannot be in control when dealing with it.  It rubbed her nose in reality.

Even after that, she would periodically start to slip back into her former mode of thinking, because the Law was her comfort belief, and because she desperately hates feeling out of control.  In Death Masks, when they were about to go up against Mavra and her minions, she has a moment when she suggests to Harry that they could do it the legal way, bring in a mass police force to deal with the problem.

Even Harry is tempted by it.  But he knows better, and deflates Karrin's bubble as gently as he can without indulging her fantasy.  This sort of thing happened several times over some of the middle books, and usually Harry would have to remind her of the loup garou to bring her back to Earth.

In Proven Guilty, when Harry tells Karrin about the execution of the Korean kid, her first reaction is fury and probably an impulse to call for arrest warrants.  After all, the incident was, by definition, First Degree Homicide with a minor as the victim, and a number of other felonies as well.

But Harry (who was similarly angry about the whole situation himself earlier) has to remind her that the police couldn't have handled the kid, there was no mundane jail cell that would safely hold him, and he reminds her reluctantly of the loup garou again, IIRC.  Then he rather reluctantly admits, to her and himself, that that White Council really has tried, repeatedly, over the centuries to find a way to rehabilitate warlocks.  Nothing they've tried ever works once the warlock slides past the edge.

Murphy reluctantly acknowledges this, and to salve her pride says she can't ignore a dead body if it's found, and Harry promises her that it won't be.  But of course even that is just her pride talking, if the Council ordered her to hush up an investigation, body or not, she'd have to do it.  They're just too powerful to disobey.

She also starts to slip into it in White Night, but then she has an encounter with a Gruff that reminds her of the loup garou without Harry having too.  She bluffs her way through the encounter at Mac's, in a way the ends with Mac and Harry deeply impressed.  But truthfully, they really shouldn't have been.  She was bluffing a representative of a supernatural megapower, and if the gruff had called her bluff...well, that would have been unpleasant.  She shouldn't even have tried it.  It was a Cool scene.  But an unwise moment.

I suppose that's an example of my older self's perspective, actually.  Bluffing is what you do when you have absolutely no other option.  Bluffing to salve your pride is foolish, and can get you into a world of hurt if you're not lucky.  My younger self saw Cool, my older self knows the wisdom of the old saying, "When in doubt, STFU."

That same pride eventually did lead to her shattering a Sword, as you note.

[Mira]

He accepted it enough that he knew he couldn't stop it.  He accepted it enough that he knew he had to keep Karrin in the dark until she was ready to face up toe the cold fact of the Council's overwhelming power.

Yeah, he hated it.  He still hates it, he just knows it's necessary now.  He's still casting around for some other solution, but so far he hasn't found one.

Yup and as we grow older some of our idealism fades away, some things remain unfair, but until a better way can be found to make them fair, we have to live with it.