Is Harry a good mentor

[vincentric]

Neither Mab nor Titania could bring themselves to stop their Nemesis controlled daughters.

Titania still can't totally forgive Harry for doing it even though she admitted to him that it was necessary. Mab was in a rage for years when she discovered Maeve's infection and had to speak through proxies or else injure listeners. Her dedication to necessity did enable her to give the order to execute Maeve directly.

I'm seeing two heartbroken and grieving mothers, not soulless monsters.

[Mira]

That being said:  yes, I think Mab still has a soul.  Just the smallest ember smoldering in her cold, cold heart... but I  think it's still there.

Which could lead to her downfall, but also for victory for her side.

[Tinfoil hat]

Which could lead to her downfall, but also for victory for her side.

I think that little bit of soul in Mab is what makes her acceptable to Mr Sunshine and his boss. Without that piece she is another monster that will threaten humanity unnecessarily. Mab seems like a bad guy to us but she is a part of the ecosystem of the Dresden universe. The Reds were probably to soulless to be allowed to continue and where cut same with the blacks

[Mira]

I think that little bit of soul in Mab is what makes her acceptable to Mr Sunshine and his boss. Without that piece she is another monster that will threaten humanity unnecessarily. Mab seems like a bad guy to us but she is a part of the ecosystem of the Dresden universe. The Reds were probably to soulless to be allowed to continue and where cut same with the blacks

 But it may make her hesitate which could lead to her downfall as Winter Queen.  Hard to say though, ordering the cold blooded death or execution of her daughter was pretty soul less, though her reaction after the fact hinted that she did have some soul... Did Maeve have a soul?  Or was she merely insane?

[Tinfoil hat]

But it may make her hesitate which could lead to her downfall as Winter Queen.  Hard to say though, ordering the cold blooded death or execution of her daughter was pretty soul less, though her reaction after the fact hinted that she did have some soul... Did Maeve have a soul?  Or was she merely insane?

Having a soul doesn't stop her from being insane. Nemesis seems like it possesses anything and everyone with or without a soul

[Mira]

Having a soul doesn't stop her from being insane. Nemesis seems like it possesses anything and everyone with or without a soul

 True, but it still doesn't answer the question of whether or not Maeve had a soul. 

[g33k]

... ordering the cold blooded death or execution of her daughter was pretty soul less, though her reaction after the fact hinted that she did have some soul...

"soulless" as an adjective is much like "cold-blooded" ... but absolutely should not be confused or conflated with the Dresdenverse condition of having or not having a "soul."

Regular everyday humans -- who absolutely-and-for-sure have souls -- make those sorts of "soulless" decisions (and do so distressingly often!).

This might equivalently be called a "corrupted soul" or other epithets; but such criticisms of the state of their souls are very different from literally having no soul whatsoever in the Dresdenverse.

Mab -- who has mastered both cold-blooded calculation and self-control -- took years of coming to term with her daughter's state, before she gave her new WK the (necessary) order to kill Maeve.  But I don't think this gives us strong evidence of Mab either having or not having a soul, honestly.

[Mira]

But I don't think this gives us strong evidence of Mab either having or not having a soul, honestly.

That's my point, unless you believe that non-humans can have souls.. Then you have to figure out how much mortal human remains in Mab, and is that enough for her to have a soul?  Now Maeve may have had, with a mortal father she might have been at least half human.

[vincentric]

As Uriel said, " You have a body, you are a soul." Any creature that started off as a mortal has a soul to begin with, even if they corrupt and distort it over the course of their lives. Assuming a big enough mantle may grant immortality but doesn't destroy your soul.

[Mira]

As Uriel said, " You have a body, you are a soul." Any creature that started off as a mortal has a soul to begin with, even if they corrupt and distort it over the course of their lives. Assuming a big enough mantle may grant immortality but doesn't destroy your soul.

  Do the animals and reptiles and fish have souls?  They all have bodies don't they?

[vincentric]

  Do the animals and reptiles and fish have souls?  They all have bodies don't they?

They never had human souls while Mab, Titania, Maeve and Sarissa started as full humans or changelings.

[Mira]

They never had human souls while Mab, Titania, Maeve and Sarissa started as full humans or changelings.

However at some point they have to make a choice, they give up their humanity for immortality and power.  Sarissa is a bit different as a changling, she clung to her humanity until the Lady's mantel was forced upon her. 

[vincentric]

However at some point they have to make a choice, they give up their humanity for immortality and power.  Sarissa is a bit different as a changling, she clung to her humanity until the Lady's mantel was forced upon her.

No, while they took on their mantles voluntarily or forcefully merged with them, they never had to choose giving up their humanity like a changeling's choice. It's just that the mantles continually try to exert control and the human has to control the excesses. Over time, a balance is reached.

Harry keeps tight rein over the Winter Knight, otherwise he'd spend a great deal of time at Arctis Tor "being entertained" in his apartments. Mab is pleased with Molly's work as Winter Lady but thinks she has too much emotion to be a good Queen. Molly worried herself to near panic avoiding her parents and siblings because she was mortified that they'd see her as a monster. Perhaps over time, the mantles will exert greater control, but the people are still in there.

[Mira]

No, while they took on their mantles voluntarily or forcefully merged with them, they never had to choose giving up their humanity like a changeling's choice. It's just that the mantles continually try to exert control and the human has to control the excesses. Over time, a balance is reached.

Would you say that there is a "balance" between human mortal and Fae in either Mab or Titania?  I also would say that over time, the "human" loses out.. We saw that in the case of Molly and Carlos, human Molly wanted to have sex, but the Lady's mantel won out and Carlos was torn up.

Harry keeps tight rein over the Winter Knight, otherwise he'd spend a great deal of time at Arctis Tor "being entertained" in his apartments. Mab is pleased with Molly's work as Winter Lady but thinks she has too much emotion to be a good Queen. Molly worried herself to near panic avoiding her parents and siblings because she was mortified that they'd see her as a monster. Perhaps over time, the mantles will exert greater control, but the people are still in there.

As I said, the Knight's mantel is a bit different, also Harry is one of a handful of mortals that has been able to keep the mantel under control, he goes to great lengths to do it too.  Molly's fear isn't that her parents would see her as a monster, but their fear and her own fear of losing her soul because of what she has become.

[vincentric]

Would you say that there is a "balance" between human mortal and Fae in either Mab or Titania?  I also would say that over time, the "human" loses out.. We saw that in the case of Molly and Carlos, human Molly wanted to have sex, but the Lady's mantel won out and Carlos was torn up.
As I said, the Knight's mantel is a bit different, also Harry is one of a handful of mortals that has been able to keep the mantel under control, he goes to great lengths to do it too.  Molly's fear isn't that her parents would see her as a monster, but their fear and her own fear of losing her soul because of what she has become.

There is a balance in both Queens, but those balances don't have to be equal. They just have to be enough to allow them to do their jobs without going insane.

Mab and Titania have to let their mantles have prominence; their roles require levels of information management that our best supercomputers would be incapable of. Mab is linked to Winter, the way that Harry was to his followers in Battle Ground. She says as much when Harry asks her about the Banner. She's defending the bastion of reality 24/7/365 against an endless horde of Outsiders. It's more telling tat she actually has some time for small diversions.